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COVID Cases Among People Already Vaccinated

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Scepticism is an important part of finding the truth.
But the difference between scepticism and they are out to kill me, is the difference between being healthy and being mentally ill.

Veterans will always have a hard time. Most war injuries are not fatal, but change your life. And the armed forces are designed to put soldiers up, live or die. After care is looked as an overhead cost. This comes from the days when life was brutal in every walk, so it was healthy or gone. In modern times things have changed and like the gulf war and the war against terrorists so has war.

This is though a long way from talking about covid and vaccines.
The medical profession who invented solutions to covid are not part of the armed services or the civil authorities or the distribution services. It is easy to conflate the two as a veteran, but most people have no experience of armed services or its ethos.

I have met policemen who spend all their time hunting hardened criminals so the way they treat normal people can be brutal, as if everyone is like their targets. An occupational hazard, but one can choose to account for.

God bless you
it is when they do this ,the,military has been tasked to give covi'd shots ,the va does it .

here ,this grates me 182266479_10159865024218606_6852879970769319344_n.jpgon all military bases.since we can't force you will segregate and ostrize you .how many of those senior leaders have spouses who refuse it?
 
it is when they do this ,the,military has been tasked to give covi'd shots ,the va does it .

here ,this grates me View attachment 11504on all military bases.since we can't force you will segregate and ostrize you .how many of those senior leaders have spouses who refuse it?
I get your desire for choice, except in the army you submit to the hierarchy and do what you are told.
If the army says get these shots, you have them.

Part of the military ethos is one unit one action, no matter the cost. Once you are part of that culture and outlook where is the standing back and saying forcing something is unfair? I know the argument about illegal commands, orders that contravene ethics etc. but we are talking here about getting a vaccine which is probably the safest vaccine I have ever heard of. Let us say covid causes 3 in 100 deaths, and the vaccine risk is 1 in 100,000.

In bomber command in the 2nd world war, young men were dying at a loss rate of 50% over 10 missions.
You reach 65 years old and you have a 1 in 24 chance of dying in any one year. I have literally more likelyhood of winning the lottery than suffering problems from covid.

My sister who has bladder cancer has a 4/5ths chance of not making it past 6 months. Now that is a real brick wall, with no coming back. Has this society just gone soft?

Take another weird thing. Trump denied covid was serious, but when he got it, immediately had experimental treatment, isolation in a hospital, the full works. And with this real approach, he was happy to gamble with other peoples lives, as if it did not matter if they lived or died.

Look at India and you see what happens when politicians lie, people listen and ignore the risks. This virus does not listen to anything but how many people it can infect at any and every opportunity. And our only weapon is isolation and the vaccine, as well as seeking the Lords favour and mercy.

God bless you
 
I get your desire for choice, except in the army you submit to the hierarchy and do what you are told.
If the army says get these shots, you have them.

Part of the military ethos is one unit one action, no matter the cost. Once you are part of that culture and outlook where is the standing back and saying forcing something is unfair? I know the argument about illegal commands, orders that contravene ethics etc. but we are talking here about getting a vaccine which is probably the safest vaccine I have ever heard of. Let us say covid causes 3 in 100 deaths, and the vaccine risk is 1 in 100,000.

In bomber command in the 2nd world war, young men were dying at a loss rate of 50% over 10 missions.
You reach 65 years old and you have a 1 in 24 chance of dying in any one year. I have literally more likelyhood of winning the lottery than suffering problems from covid.

My sister who has bladder cancer has a 4/5ths chance of not making it past 6 months. Now that is a real brick wall, with no coming back. Has this society just gone soft?

Take another weird thing. Trump denied covid was serious, but when he got it, immediately had experimental treatment, isolation in a hospital, the full works. And with this real approach, he was happy to gamble with other peoples lives, as if it did not matter if they lived or died.

Look at India and you see what happens when politicians lie, people listen and ignore the risks. This virus does not listen to anything but how many people it can infect at any and every opportunity. And our only weapon is isolation and the vaccine, as well as seeking the Lords favour and mercy.

God bless you
Large percentages of police, servicemen, teachers, healthcare workers, firefighters are refusing the vaccine. This is indicative of the feelings/intentions of the populace at large. Times have changed as to government/corporate/military personel blindly following orders. The trust in our institutions has been vastly eroded. Trump's "experimental treatment" was hydroxychloroquine by his own admission. The Fauci led medical establishment denied hydroxychloroquine to the masses. Hcq was widely used in India and that was why the virus was kept at bay there for so long. India tired of the virus restrictions and let their guard down. HCQ works great as a preventative/mild case remedy. It offers not immunity though and must be taken constantly until the virus is extinguished. Failure to remain vigilant cost India dearly.
 
I get your desire for choice, except in the army you submit to the hierarchy and do what you are told.
If the army says get these shots, you have them.

Part of the military ethos is one unit one action, no matter the cost. Once you are part of that culture and outlook where is the standing back and saying forcing something is unfair? I know the argument about illegal commands, orders that contravene ethics etc. but we are talking here about getting a vaccine which is probably the safest vaccine I have ever heard of. Let us say covid causes 3 in 100 deaths, and the vaccine risk is 1 in 100,000.

In bomber command in the 2nd world war, young men were dying at a loss rate of 50% over 10 missions.
You reach 65 years old and you have a 1 in 24 chance of dying in any one year. I have literally more likelyhood of winning the lottery than suffering problems from covid.

My sister who has bladder cancer has a 4/5ths chance of not making it past 6 months. Now that is a real brick wall, with no coming back. Has this society just gone soft?

Take another weird thing. Trump denied covid was serious, but when he got it, immediately had experimental treatment, isolation in a hospital, the full works. And with this real approach, he was happy to gamble with other peoples lives, as if it did not matter if they lived or died.

Look at India and you see what happens when politicians lie, people listen and ignore the risks. This virus does not listen to anything but how many people it can infect at any and every opportunity. And our only weapon is isolation and the vaccine, as well as seeking the Lords favour and mercy.

God bless you
does this argument deny,the moral right the federal govt ought to pay claims on forced acommodoations where your health was compromised?
in my case burn pits.the agent Orange and gulf war syndrome comes to mind.we have paid families of those killed accidentally to Muslims parents overseas .yet deny that to our vets!

I could go into that fauci mentioned a booster

fact most people over 20 that hasn't served or have a booster shot are no longer immune to mmr,yellow fever ,scarlet fever ,typhoid tetanus .

so while I agree that one can make a case for the vaccine ,how ever I won't blame persons like me who despite the assurance have seen those with counterindications,I have had them myself to the tetanus shot . this vaccine is very new ,to assume that the scientist is God and knows it all as far as its contraindications is a bit much ,they didn't foresee the clots despite how few they had them .a 1 percent chance of death is too high if you are that one percent . I take risks myself ,its probably I will die or have issues from high blood pressure over covid as it runs in my,genes .my brother ,sister ,mom.uncles and great aunt ,grandpa had high blood pressure ,not a diet cause but genetics .my mom is underweight .

therefore understand my hesitation isn't on fear ,or paranoia but one of its too new .

if herd immunity was achieved at 5 percent with mmr,surely it would be covid.yet with Mmr its not the case .most adults have lost their immunity to that unless given a tetanus shot or served and that lasts only 10 years
 
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The science on this is clear: based on what we actually know, and what can be reasonably foreseen, the risks posed by covid greatly outweigh the risks posed by the vaccine. This is not really up for debate.

The moral imperative is also clear: we are indeed our brother's keeper - we should get the vaccine.
 
For those who take a vaccine please stop complaining about those who dont have one as you apparently are protected.
Here is why it is reasonable, and indeed morally necessary, for us to encourage everyone to get a vaccine:

- the vaccine is not 100% effective - those who refuse vaccination are needlessly putting the rest of us at risk.
- even if the vaccine were 100% effective, those who refuse it will needlessly strain an already overburdened health care system.
 
Correct me if im wrong but you said the vaccine is not fully effective and those who refuse it are "putting the rest of us", whoever that is "at risk".

Im a bit confused.
Hi, let me try to explain.

What I am saying is that the people who get the vaccine will not be guaranteed 100% protection - even though they are vaccinated, there is still a risk they will catch Covid and possibly get sick and even die. Now the vaccines are, it seems, quite effective, but this risk is not miniscule by any means. For example, I have received one shot of Pfizer. Apparently, this reduces my risk of catching covid by about 60%, not 100%.

Now let's talk about the people who do not get vaccinated. They have no protection at all and are at greatly elevated risk, as compared to people who are vaccinated, of catching covid and passing it to others, including those who have been vaccinated.

My argument, therefore, is that it is indeed "my business" when other people refuse to be vaccinated. Now let me be clear: I am not suggesting that the tiny fraction of people who have a history of severe allergic reaction to vaccines should get the vaccine - far from it.

But, frankly, from an ethical / Christian perspective I see no justification for doing anything other than getting vaccinated as soon as possible.
 
Hi, let me try to explain.

What I am saying is that the people who get the vaccine will not be guaranteed 100% protection - even though they are vaccinated, there is still a risk they will catch Covid and possibly get sick and even die. Now the vaccines are, it seems, quite effective, but this risk is not miniscule by any means. For example, I have received one shot of Pfizer. Apparently, this reduces my risk of catching covid by about 60%, not 100%.

Now let's talk about the people who do not get vaccinated. They have no protection at all and are at greatly elevated risk, as compared to people who are vaccinated, of catching covid and passing it to others, including those who have been vaccinated.

My argument, therefore, is that it is indeed "my business" when other people refuse to be vaccinated. Now let me be clear: I am not suggesting that the tiny fraction of people who have a history of severe allergic reaction to vaccines should get the vaccine - far from it.

But, frankly, from an ethical / Christian perspective I see no justification for doing anything other than getting vaccinated as soon as possible.
Your figures only hold water if you assume every unvaccinated person you describe never had Covid. Vaccinated or not, people are getting AND/OR carrying COVID around with some of those same ones more than once. There are plenty of doctors who say getting COVID and surviving it is as good or even better than any vaccine.
 
Your figures only hold water if you assume every unvaccinated person you describe never had Covid. Vaccinated or not, people are getting AND/OR carrying COVID around with some of those same ones more than once. There are plenty of doctors who say getting COVID and surviving it is as good or even better than any vaccine.
I do not follow your reasoning. Surely you are not claiming that vaccination does not reduce the risk of getting and then transmitting covid to others.

And I do not believe this statement: "There are plenty of doctors who say getting COVID and surviving it is as good or even better than any vaccine".

I am quite sure no doctor would say this. Or only a tiny, tiny fraction. It may indeed be true that getting covid is as good as the vaccine in terms of conferring future immunity. But that is clearly not the point - it is, obviously, far better to get immune via vaccine and not via covid - the latter can and does kill, the former only very, very rarely.
 
I do not follow your reasoning. Surely you are not claiming that vaccination does not reduce the risk of getting and then transmitting covid to others.

And I do not believe this statement: "There are plenty of doctors who say getting COVID and surviving it is as good or even better than any vaccine".

I am quite sure no doctor would say this. Or only a tiny, tiny fraction. It may indeed be true that getting covid is as good as the vaccine in terms of conferring future immunity. But that is clearly not the point - it is, obviously, far better to get immune via vaccine and not via covid - the latter can and does kill, the former only very, very rarely.
If your premise is true then why are cases surging among countries with vaccinated populations?
 
If your premise is true then why are cases surging among countries with vaccinated populations?
What countries are you referring to?

On the other side of this we have the UK and Israel - both are at the head of the pack in terms of vaccinations and both have seen infection rates plummet. Coincidence?

In any event, many variables determine rate of transmission, vaccination being but one.
 
What countries are you referring to?

On the other side of this we have the UK and Israel - both are at the head of the pack in terms of vaccinations and both have seen infection rates plummet. Coincidence?

In any event, many variables determine rate of transmission, vaccination being but one.
Seycheles and Chile are both highly vaccinated populations yet COVID surges.
 
Seycheles and Chile are both highly vaccinated populations yet COVID surges.
We know the reason in Chile - they use the Sinovac vaccine, which is not very effective. And as far as the Seychelles are concerned, the population is tiny and they, too, are using a Chinese vaccine which appears to not be very effective.
 
Do you have any support for this claim?
It was all over the news that India was the number one producer of HCQ and Trump had to resort to economic threats to get them to ship even a small shipment to America. Their reason for denying us was "We take care of our own first".
 
It was all over the news that India was the number one producer of HCQ and Trump had to resort to economic threats to get them to ship even a small shipment to America. Their reason for denying us was "We take care of our own first".
Please provide a specific, credible source for this claim:

Hcq was widely used in India and that was why the virus was kept at bay there for so long.
 
I'm not going to go digging up all those videos. You wanna go find them, be my guest.
You made the claim, it is your responsibility to support it.

Surely you can understand that if you cannot produce credible support for your own claim, it looks a tad suspicious.
 
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