Is the vaccine effective?

[stovebolts]

You are evading the central issue - when a person refuses the vaccine and then goes out into society, they are needlessly forcing a potentially serious illness on the rest of us.

If you have been vaccinated, then your risk is extremely low and your concern should be below the concern you might have of catching a cold.

For the unvaccinated, the risk of death hovers around 2 percent.

 

[Drew]

YOU NEED to STOP.... This attitude of yours is inexcusable... What you are doing to those here is NOT remotely appropriate rebuke. I fear you will not be permitted to continue this discussion because you refuse to humble yourself.
To be fair... I have reported your comment to Sister. I just took you off of IGNORE this morning and already you are causing more STRIFE. Grab some RESPECT.

How is what I am doing inappropriate? Simple question: is it appropriate for a parent to rebuke a child as "selfish" if that child engages in behaviours that are placing other children at risk?

 

[Adoration]

How is what I am doing inappropriate? Simple question: is it appropriate for a parent to rebuke a child as "selfish" if that child engages in behaviours that are placing other children at risk?

I will let Administration deal with you... I wrote a post this morning addressing this issue... and obviously it means nothing to you. I do not desire to feed your hunger for strife.

 

[Isilwen]

Suppose my choice is to lure sell kiddie porn.

Bad analogy.

I will not change my mind. I have gotten the vaccine, my family except for the youngest have been vaccinated. I have done what I could, and I made my choice. Others must make their own choice.

 

[Isilwen]

But both choices merit strong rebuke - it is decidedly anti-gospel to needlessly place others at risk.

Like it or not, that is only your opinion.

 

[Drew]

If you have been vaccinated, then your risk is extremely low and your concern should be below the concern you might have of catching a cold.

For the unvaccinated, the risk of death hovers around 2 percent.

It is not that simple.

Yes, as a vaccinated person, I am at very low risk of severe illness and death. But I am not at low risk of getting infected, and then infecting others. And the more people that get infected, the more likely it will be that a variant will emerge that will defeat the vaccine that I have received.

 

[Drew]

Bad analogy.

Why? Please explain exactly how this is a bad analogy.

If I make kiddie porn, I harm others.

If I refuse the vaccine, I harm others (unless, of course, I retreat into the life of a hermit).

Seems perfectly analogous to me.

 

[Isilwen]

Why? Please explain exactly how this is a bad analogy.

If I make kiddie porn, I harm others.

If I refuse the vaccine, I harm others (unless, of course, I retreat into the life of a hermit).

Seems perfectly analogous to me.

One is illegal the other isn't. It is still legal to make the choice to be vaccinated or not. Making kiddie porn isn't.

 

[Drew]

Suppose five years from now we discover that the vaccine, which is actually experimental right now, is found to be responsible for developing some form of cancer and a large majority of those who received the vaccine became ill as a result.

All right, let's talk about this. Is this a possible scenario? Well, I suppose it is. I suppose it is indeed possible that the vaccines will cause cancer.

But I politely suggest this is not a reason to refuse the vaccine. We need to remember that covid, too, may have long- term consequences. I see no reason at all to imagine that it is at least as likely that covid will cause cancer in the long as the vaccine.

In fact, we know covid is producing long-term consequences.

I think we also to need to trust the experts. While it is always possible that they are incompetent, I am confident that based on the best knowledge of the relevant technical details, they have no reason to expect serious long-term consequences.

 

[Barbarian]

Both the Pfizer and Moderna MRNA vaccines are expected to last a very, very long time as it mounts a very durable immune response, especially when you receive the second shot. That second shot is what tells our immune system that this virus is serious, so it stores that memory in our bone marrow. While no research can prove this yet, it is expected that the vaccine will last a lifetime. Booster shots may be required when the spike protein mutates outside of the vaccines current range.

Exactly. I suspect it will be like influenza, where the old vaccine will be mostly effective but there will be a new vaccine every year, tuned to whatever variant happens to be most common.

However, it is not common for inactivated virus vaccines to be good for a lifetime. It remains to be seen how long mRNA vaccines provide good protection, but as you mentioned, most people in the field seem to think that it's going to be longer than for conventional inactivated vaccines.

While inactivated vaccines have the same aims as live vaccines—namely to generate antibodies that fight diseases—they tend to induce a less robust response and often need multiple doses and/or booster shots to achieve the same level of protection.

How Inactivated Vaccines Help Your Body Fight a Virus

An inactivated vaccine uses a killed pathogen to stimulate the immune system to fight infection. They have both advantages and disadvantages.

www.verywellhealth.com

 

[Drew]

One is illegal the other isn't. It is still legal to make the choice to be vaccinated or not. Making kiddie porn isn't.

Not relevant. The issue is the effect of actions on others, regardless of legal status.

Ok, forget the kiddie porn.

Suppose the bubonic plague is circulating and there is a safe vaccine available. Is it ethical to refuse the vaccine and then go out in public?

 

[Barbarian]

All right, let's talk about this. Is this a possible scenario? Well, I suppose it is. I suppose it is indeed possible that the vaccines will cause cancer.

But I politely suggest this is not a reason to refuse the vaccine. We need to remember that covid, too, may have long- term consequences. I see no reason at all to imagine that it is at least as likely that covid will cause cancer in the long as the vaccine.

It is known that viruses can indeed cause cancer. There is no evidence whatever that any vaccine causes cancer. And of course, it is known that even mild cases of COVID-19 often cause long-term medical harm. It is impossible for me to understand the thinking of a person who exposes himself to a known hazard, in order to avoid an imagined hazard for which there is no evidence.

 

[Isilwen]

Not relevant. The issue is the effect of actions on others, regardless of legal status.

Ok, forget the kiddie porn.

Suppose the bubonic plague is circulating and there is a safe vaccine available. Is it ethical to refuse the vaccine and then go out in public?

Again, not going to change my mind. It is a choice. People are allowed to make choices, especially if there is a risk involved with the said choice, and there are risks involved with the vaccine. I myself felt the risks of Covid outweighed the risk of the vaccine, others don't feel the same way.

It remains their choice.

 

[Edward]

You are evading the central issue - when a person refuses the vaccine and then goes out into society, they are needlessly forcing a potentially serious illness on the rest of us.

It is an obvious oversimplification to make the argument that we should respect the right for people to "make their own choices". Suppose my choice is to lure sell kiddie porn. Would you "respect my right to make my own choice" in this circumstance?

You are so short sighted. How any normal Human Being or Christian could ever equate kidde porn to vaccinations or health care is beyond me. It reeks of a warped mind. You should've took the red pill.

 

[Barbarian]

Suppose the bubonic plague is circulating and there is a safe vaccine available. Is it ethical to refuse the vaccine and then go out in public?

Society and our legal system determined this a long time ago. There are laws which were used to quarantine people who were likely to spread disease. After antibiotics and vaccines, these laws have been rarely enforced.

But today, with a constant flow of social media misinformation, there remains a large minority of people who will not protect themselves and in doing that, endanger others. If the pandemic continues to grow and kill, the public might indeed be willing to go back to those (already constitutionally-legal) remedies.

Americans are patient with dissenters, but when there's a threat to everyone else, patience has limits.

 

[Edward]

Besides, there is a vaccination for kidde porn. You can even get the shot from a distance, lol.

 

[Adoration]

Americans are patient with dissenters, but when there's a threat to everyone else, patience has limits.

I absolutely RESENT being accused of being the CAUSE of the spread of covid due to the fact that I am choosing NOT to get vaccinated.

The issue here is whether or not the vaccine is effective... and people are throwing out false statistics like candy.

What part of WE need time to discover IF the vaccine is effective is not being accepted here??? For centuries... time has told the tale.... and now... suddenly.... the rules have changed.... we don't need time anymore... we need pressure... and guilt and shame to conform....

GET the vaccine if you desire to be part of an experiment... or don't get the vaccine if you have concerns.... NEITHER is adding to the pandemic.

It is careless behaviour that is spreading the virus. It is gathering in large crowds without masks... and without proper distancing... THESE people who have absolutely no regard or respect are the ones responsible for spreading this... and that includes those pastors who refused to comply with the mandates set before them.

I honestly cannot wrap my brain around this BLAME GAME.... and the sudden loss of rights.... with the absolute lamest comparisons being used as examples.

I am very aware of my surroundings... and I am very respectful to others.... I keep my distance...this topic is just unbelievable to me. I never thought I would see the day where my rights would be questioned... Certainly not in Canada.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I cannot wrap my mind around anyone still thinking that Covid 19 is a lie. So many people have died. So many have lost friends and family to this disease. My daughter who is much more familiar with social media, told me to ignore statements that are preposterous because sometimes people are just seeking attention. In order for Covid 19 to be a lie, it would involve A WORLD CONSPIRACY . I do not think there is any country which has not reported having Covid cases. Anyway, I am not interested in having a debate on this subject...God gave us free will to believe whatever we want to believe. God is ALL POWERFUL and is able to remove this disease from the planet. However, we have to pray.

The covid may very well be real but no one seems to get the flu anymore.
Everything is covid.
What happened to the flu?

You are correct - I do not respect people who make a choice that needlessly places others at increased risk of possible severe illness and / or death.

Suppose I my "choice" is to go out into shopping mall and open up with an AR-15. Would you show "respect of choice" in that situation?

You show respect by being polite and kind.
These are traits of God.
If you lack them, you need to work on your sanctification a little harder.

 

[Isilwen]

The covid may very well be real but no one seems to get the flu anymore.
Everything is covid.
What happened to the flu?

I transported patients with the flu as well. It was still there, but because people were wearing masks, social distancing, and more hand washing, the number of those infected with the flu weren't high.

 

[Isilwen]

Certainly not in Canada.

How easy is it to move to Canada? You can PM if you'd like.