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Is the vaccine effective?

Is the vaccine effective?

  • Yes

    Votes: 20 54.1%
  • No

    Votes: 6 16.2%
  • Better than none

    Votes: 2 5.4%
  • Worse than none

    Votes: 8 21.6%
  • Other (please specify)

    Votes: 1 2.7%

  • Total voters
    37

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No, I didn't suggest such a thing.
court:
Yes you. Did .business owner please pay a 10000 fine for each employee in it non compliance.
Business owner says Molan labe

are cops not gonna enforce fines? contempt of court ?

I personally know of a man who had not filed a permit to build a brick facade
,Five cops with code enforcement showed up as his paid contractor was installing and posted the cease and desist order .

5 cops! ,No cop leaves the compound without his gear!
 
The first and or the earliest racial issue was a death of a nyc black citizen over 10 dollars of not paying cigarettes taxes .

He was selling them on the street and did not stop .yes he in part was at fault ,whether or not the tax or his resistance isn't the point but to show you that they will use lethal force to get compliance.
 
I suppose I should have first asked if the mandates being enforced or suggested are for everyone in an entire state, or if they are specific for different industries. Do you support businesses and institutions, including governments, to mandate vaccines for their employees, contractors, and any who come onto their premises?
The federal mandate by the Biden administration encompasses any company with over 100 employees across all employment segments.
We agree that people have the right to choose whether or not to get vaccinated.
Yes, but do we agree that the consequences of refusing the vaccine is fair? IE loosing your job like many state employees in Washington State? Or paying the cost of weekly tests?

But businesses and institutions (schools, hospitals, etc.) also have the right to decide who comes onto their premises, and also have the responsibility to do what they can to ensure the health and safety of everyone on those premises.
Sure, but does big government have the authority to regulate business in this capacity? Look up Wood Chips in Lapeer Mi . They defied state mandates to shut down, and the judge who took their liquor license said if all restaurants took the measures against Covid that they did, there would be no reason to shut them down.
Governments also have this right and responsibility for all those in their employ, which would include contractors, and any who would come onto their property. In this sense, they should all have right to mandate vaccines as far as business is conducted.
I disagree, and so do many of the first responders and healthcare workers in Washington State who put in the hard work during the peek of the pandemic and put themselves at high risk before the vaccines. Those workers all lost their jobs because of the state mandate.
It's a matter of social responsibility of both the individual and society, as well as the rights of the individual versus the rights of businesses and institutions. Individuals have the right to not get vaccinated and businesses and institutions have the right to not let those individuals onto their property.
I think your playing with Pandora’s box here. Should the government force religious institutions to perform gay marriages etc?
The right of the individual should supersede the rights granted to the government. The government is for the people, by the people.
t then becomes an issue of enforcement to support those businesses and institutions that choose to not let unvaccinated people onto their premises. It is possible that there could be (or is) a law which would allow fines (or termination of employment) for those who choose to break the rules. It would also require a vaccine record for proof of vaccination.
I think our disconnect is In talking about a mandate that forces itself upon individuals and business as opposed to supporting business.
I suppose I should have first asked if the mandates being enforced or suggested are for everyone in an entire state, or if they are specific for different industries. Do you support businesses and institutions, including governments, to mandate vaccines for their employees, contractors, and any who come onto their premises?

We agree that people have the right to choose whether or not to get vaccinated. But businesses and institutions (schools, hospitals, etc.) also have the right to decide who comes onto their premises, and also have the responsibility to do what they can to ensure the health and safety of everyone on those premises. Governments also have this right and responsibility for all those in their employ, which would include contractors, and any who would come onto their property. In this sense, they should all have right to mandate vaccines as far as business is conducted.

It's a matter of social responsibility of both the individual and society, as well as the rights of the individual versus the rights of businesses and institutions. Individuals have the right to not get vaccinated and businesses and institutions have the right to not let those individuals onto their property.

It then becomes an issue of enforcement to support those businesses and institutions that choose to not let unvaccinated people onto their premises. It is possible that there could be (or is) a law which would allow fines (or termination of employment) for those who choose to break the rules. It would also require a vaccine record for proof of vaccination.

The only real options I can see are letting those who can work from home do so, having people pay for their own testing every time they want to be on site (but then false negatives become the issue), firing people who won't get vaccinated, and mandating vaccines.
I have been working from home since just before the work from home order in Michigan came into effect. The mandate stipulates every company over 100 employees must ensure all of their employees are vaccinated or the will suffer stiff fines, regardless if their employees work from home or not.
 
Gotta love the English language lol!

I was talking to a good friend about mutations just a few weeks ago, and before this new variant. Here are my personal thoughts.

It’s the nature of a virus to mutate, hence the cold and flu variants each year. Now I believe mutations occur when they battle immune responses. And if this is true, then regardless if you have natural immunity or immunity from a vaccine, then it stands to be reasoned that either a person that’s been vaccinated or a person that has natural immunity can produce a variant if either is infected.

Thoughts?

My personal opinion is; they can use this disease and it's variants as a weapon to destabilize nations economy, and control the world as they see fit.

We see nations like Australia have become a police state over night.

We were told by the experts that if we take the vaccine are wear masks everything would return to normal.

Then that narrative evolved into the second shot, then the booster in order to be considered "fully vaccinated"...now we are hearing this new variant.

Personally I think the powers that be want the So African President to start mandating the vaccine.





JLB
 
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This claim that the Covid-19 vaccines are experimental is simply not true,
From the CDC.

What You Need to Know​

  • Messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines teach our cells how to make a protein that will trigger an immune response inside our bodies.
  • Like all vaccines, mRNA vaccines benefit people who get vaccinated by giving them protection against diseases like COVID-19 without risking the potentially serious consequences of getting sick.
  • mRNA vaccines are newly available to the public. However, researchers have been studying and working with mRNA vaccines for decades.
  • The same COVID-19 mRNA vaccine product should be used for both doses of a two-dose primary series and for an additional primary dose, if needed. However, any of the COVID-19 vaccines can be used for a booster dose. The booster dose product does not need to match the product used for the primary series.
  • Learn more about getting your vaccine.
Studying mRNA and actually applying it to human use are two different things. Until they were used under the Emergency Use Authorization for treating Covid, which allows them to use it WITHOUT performing the required clinical trials, mRNA technology has NEVER been used on humans before.
 
Christian.
But there is no religious exemption that can be given for Christians.

True enough. They changed the parameters for testing and approval so that they could say it is an approved vaccine. Fauci is talking about changing the definition of VACCINE to make it fit their agenda.


True enough again. They moved the goal posts to make authorization easier. Now 10s of thousands of death due to the covid vaccine is acceptable.



True enough. They moved the goal posts to make authorization easier.

I guess I stand corrected.
The goal posts haven’t moved; it’s just that social media has promoted a false understanding of the Nuremberg Code.
 
From the CDC.

What You Need to Know​

  • Messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines teach our cells how to make a protein that will trigger an immune response inside our bodies.
  • Like all vaccines, mRNA vaccines benefit people who get vaccinated by giving them protection against diseases like COVID-19 without risking the potentially serious consequences of getting sick.
  • mRNA vaccines are newly available to the public. However, researchers have been studying and working with mRNA vaccines for decades.
  • The same COVID-19 mRNA vaccine product should be used for both doses of a two-dose primary series and for an additional primary dose, if needed. However, any of the COVID-19 vaccines can be used for a booster dose. The booster dose product does not need to match the product used for the primary series.
  • Learn more about getting your vaccine.
Studying mRNA and actually applying it to human use are two different things. Until they were used under the Emergency Use Authorization for treating Covid, which allows them to use it WITHOUT performing the required clinical trials, mRNA technology has NEVER been used on humans before.
It was never used on humans prior to a year-and-a-half ago, when the first clinical trials were performed. Now, with nearly 8 billion doses, much of which has been mRNA, they are no longer experimental.
 
It was never used on humans prior to a year-and-a-half ago, when the first clinical trials were performed. Now, with nearly 8 billion doses, much of which has been mRNA, they are no longer experimental.
Yes and no. The clinical trial period in the US according to the FDA requires in excess of two years and more typically 4-6 years of clinical testing and monitoring. This was not done.
 
Gotta love the English language lol!

I was talking to a good friend about mutations just a few weeks ago, and before this new variant. Here are my personal thoughts.

It’s the nature of a virus to mutate, hence the cold and flu variants each year. Now I believe mutations occur when they battle immune responses. And if this is true, then regardless if you have natural immunity or immunity from a vaccine, then it stands to be reasoned that either a person that’s been vaccinated or a person that has natural immunity can produce a variant if either is infected.

Thoughts?
Agree, and I've stated so in a previous post in almost the same words. The natural immune system produces anti-bodies to neutralize the virus. The resulting antibodies will not necessarily be equivalent to the vaccine induced anti-bodies. And there are studies that indicate that the natural immune response is more reliable and effective than the induced response which, as I understand, produces a more specified response (leading to less effective long term results?).
 
But there is no religious exemption that can be given for Christians.


Here is mine --

Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.
Jesus Christ of Nazareth
 
Here is mine --

Which still doesn't mean what you think it means.

I will give you a good example of this. Had it not been for a check-up, my girlfriend's ex-husband wouldn't have known that he had cancer. His blood test results came back off, so they tested further, and with MRIs, CT scans, and blood tests, they can confirm he has cancer, the final test will be a biopsy to confirm what type of cancer it is, but they are thinking multiple myeloma.

So tell, me, should he have not gone and got a checkup?
 
Which still doesn't mean what you think it means.


It clearly means what it says...

Those who are not sick, have no need of a physician.

Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.



Jesus is using a natural truth, to teach a spiritual truth.


Do you believe Jesus would uses a lie, to teach a spiritual truth?



JLB
 
It clearly means what it says...

Those who are not sick, have no need of a physician.

Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.



Jesus is using a natural truth, to teach a spiritual truth.


Do you believe Jesus would uses a lie, to teach a spiritual truth?



JLB

He did not lie, however, you are not using it correctly.

Are you going to ignore the example that I just gave?
 
I will give you a good example of this. Had it not been for a check-up, my girlfriend's ex-husband wouldn't have known that he had cancer. His blood test results came back off, so they tested further, and with MRIs, CT scans, and blood tests, they can confirm he has cancer, the final test will be a biopsy to confirm what type of cancer it is, but they are thinking multiple myeloma.

Why did he go and get a "check up" ?
 
He did not lie, however, you are not using it correctly.

Are you going to ignore the example that I just gave?

Jesus used natural truths to teach spiritual truths.


First the natural must be true in order for the spiritual to be true.
 
Jesus used natural truths to teach spiritual truths.


First the natural must be true in order for the spiritual to be true.

You are still not using it correctly. My example proves that what you are saying is false.

I will give you another example that what you are saying is false. I was diagnosed with high cholesterol. I would have never known without blood testing until it caused either a myocardial infarction or it killed me.
 
Because that is what people do at least once a year.

I don't know anyone who just goes to the doctor for no reason at all.

Please be honest.


He probably sensed something was wrong and made an appointment to check it out...


JLB
 
I don't know anyone who just goes to the doctor for no reason at all.

Please be honest.


He probably sensed something was wrong and made an appointment to check it out...


JLB

You are the one being dishonest. People go to the doctor for check-ups at least once a year. They get blood work done, they get their heart listened to, their lungs listened to, etc. This is common knowledge, so the fact that you are saying you know no one means either you have a very tiny circle of people that you talk to or you are being dishonest.

He went for a check-up. I am being honest.
 
You are still not using it correctly. My example proves that what you are saying is false.

Your example proves nothing at all, other than someone felt they needed to get checked out by a doctor.

Here is the truth --


Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.



The reason we can have confidence this is true is the Truth spoke it.


Amen
 
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