Conditional salvation is works salvation !

[brightfame52]

The born again believer was granted God given Faith by Grace, in order to believe in Jesus Christ for his or her Salvation, so believing in this regard is not a work of man but a Gift from God to him by Grace.

 

[Edward]

The born again believer was granted God given Faith by Grace, in order to believe in Jesus Christ for his or her Salvation, so believing in this regard is not a work of man but a Gift from God to him by Grace.

That's right. But it is up to us to use it. Are we servants of God or not?

Ephesians 6
5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.../

This is what God is telling us to do after we have received the Lord into our heart and life and that was a free gift. And now, it isn't the end but the beginning. Now we walk in it with good will from our heart and doing the service of good works towards men...but we do it, as unto God which is to say like we work for Him now, and this outlines an assignment that He wills that I do.

 

[Golgotha]

David's belief & assurance of his salvation in Jesus was dependent on God's antecedent Promise alone, given long before he was born .
He was just as sure as you or me.
His assurance had nothing to do with time spent in Abraham's bosom.

But that is why he was in Abraham's bosom aka Paradise so to wait for Christ to descend to preach the Good News to those in that prison.

God's Promise is the Gospel .
There was no withholding of His eternally assured Salvation and Divine Love to the Old Testament Saints .
David was every bit as assured of his salvation as you or me and he believed so .


"

Job 19:25
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: "

Well I agree to a point because that promise was not received yet until Jesus gave His life as a ransom for many which included David, for while he was waiting in Abraham's bosom.

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

 

[JLB]

Exactly, he repented of his disobedience, not of his belief.
His belief being a completely separate issue and not being " synonymous " at all with his obedience as you have claimed:

Disobedience and unbelief are the same Greek word, and are used interchangeably.


Example:

Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Hebrews 4:6 NKJV

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hebrews 4:6 KJV




JLB

 

[JLB]

And with faith being a fruit of the Spirit which are by Jesus Christ, this can be deem as Jesus continuing to enable us to believe & hope in Him for how we are following Him by faith.

I have never heard of faith being a fruit of the Spirit.

What does faith mean to you?

I posted that our work is to believe.

What does believe mean in the original?





JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

The born again believer was granted God given Faith by Grace, in order to believe in Jesus Christ for his or her Salvation, so believing in this regard is not a work of man but a Gift from God to him by Grace.

Brightfame
You have a difficult time understanding plain English.

Edward gave you a like because he doesn't understand what you posted above.

It SOUNDS sweet but it is NOT what scripture teaches.

We Christians like to believe what the bible teaches not what a man teaches or what the WCF teaches.

We believe FIRST,
And THEN we become born again.

NOT the other way around.
We are not born again so we could become born again.

Faith makes us born again.
No need to be born again TWICE as Only your denomination teaches.

 

[Consecrated Life]

But that is why he was in Abraham's bosom aka Paradise so to wait for Christ to descend to preach the Good News to those in that prison.

Well I agree to a point because that promise was not received yet until Jesus gave His life as a ransom for many which included David, for while he was waiting in Abraham's bosom.

David could not rejoice and be just as filled with the joy of God's promise of eternal
Salvation as me or you if he had not received it long before he left topside earth .
These inspired Words of God Himself given through David , a man after God's own heart no less, written before he ever died make that clear to me .
The rabbit hole of Abraham's bosom not diminishing his joy of assured salvation in the least .
Unless you can produce words of David in which he downgrades his God given joy due to time spent in Abraham's bosom , ( which you can't I am confident ) you are not going to convince me otherwise.
KinD Regards, Consecrated Life

"

Psa 21:1
[[To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.]] The king shall joy in thy strength, O LORD; and in thy salvation how greatly shall he rejoice! "

 

[Consecrated Life]

Disobedience and unbelief are the same Greek word, and are used interchangeably.


Example:

Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Hebrews 4:6 NKJV

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hebrews 4:6 KJV




JLB

David did not repent of his belief or unbelief , ever .
Show me scripture where David repents for unbelief in salvation, ( which I am confident you can not ), and you can make the case
Yet I can show you multiple scriptural instances of David repenting for his failure to obey .
Apples & oranges my friend.
Kind Regards, Consecrated Life .

 

[JLB]

David did not repent of his belief or unbelief , ever .
Show me scripture where David repents for unbelief in salvation, ( which I am confident you can not ), and you can make the case
Yet I can show you multiple scriptural instances of David repenting for his failure to obey .
Apples & oranges my friend.
Kind Regards, Consecrated Life .

Again unbelief and disobedience are the same word in the original and are used interchangeably.

Example:

Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
Hebrews 4:6 NKJV

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hebrews 4:6 KJV

Apples to Apples.


This is the only point I was making.


If you disagree then so be it.




JLB

 

[Consecrated Life]

Again unbelief and disobedience are the same word in the original and are used interchangeably.

Example:

Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
Hebrews 4:6 NKJV

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hebrews 4:6 KJV

Apples to Apples.


This is the only point I was making.


If you disagree then so be it.




JLB

You cannot consciously disobey without first having Belief of what is to be obeyed .
That's a yes or a no ?
Pointing out someone's "original" poor understanding / bad translation does not make that any less a physical impossibility for me .
Of course everyone is allowed to believe that night does not follow day because someone mistakenly once said so, if they choose to
I choose not to .

 

[Golgotha]

I have never heard of faith being a fruit of the Spirit.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

What does faith mean to you?

I posted that our work is to believe.

What does believe mean in the original?





JLB

Believing in Jesus Christ and having that faith in Jesus Christ is the same thing to me as that is a work of God too.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith..... ( or believing in Jesus Christ ) 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. ( or by believing in Jesus Christ )

 

[GodsGrace]

But that is why he was in Abraham's bosom aka Paradise so to wait for Christ to descend to preach the Good News to those in that prison.

Well I agree to a point because that promise was not received yet until Jesus gave His life as a ransom for many which included David, for while he was waiting in Abraham's bosom.

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Abraham's Bossom was not a prison.
And there was no need for Jesus to preach to those found there at His death.

There was a chasm separating those already apart from God, and those already comforted and awaiting Jesus' resurrection.

 

[Golgotha]

Abraham's Bossom was not a prison.
And there was no need for Jesus to preach to those found there at His death.

There was a chasm separating those already apart from God, and those already comforted and awaiting Jesus' resurrection.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, ...

Ephesians 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Jesus's story about the rich man & the beggar named Lazarus is a true story.

He said this about man not having gone to Heaven yet.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

So where did the spirits of the O.T saints go? Abraham's bosom aka Paradise which was beneath the earth but not in hell where Jesus met the thief on the cross that believed in Him that day.

1 Samuel 28:5-20 has King Saul sinning against God by using a medium to consult with the spirit of Samuel as coming up from the earth beneath.

But now that Jesus has ascended to Heaven, Paradies is now located in Heaven.

2 Corinthians 12:1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Paul was speaking indirectly about the apostle John and the Book of Revelations, but we can read where Paradise is now with the O.T. saints & the thief on the cross is at and where NT saints and we will go when we die.

 

[JLB]

Of course everyone is allowed to believe that night does not follow day because someone mistakenly once said so, if they choose to
I choose not to .

Actually day follows night.


God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day. Genesis 1:5





JLB

 

[Golgotha]

Actually day follows night.


God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day. Genesis 1:5





JLB

Consecrated Life

The Jewish day starts at sunset and ends at sunset. Quite different how we start the day at midnight and ends at midnight.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Actually day follows night.


God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day. Genesis 1:5





JLB

Exactly, the incongruity between night and day being as manifest as the division between unbelief and disobedience.

I do understand your laboring over a faulty translation .
I'm glad this proof of night and day was of help in clearing up this principle for you
You got it now, friend.

 

[jaybo]

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Believing in Jesus Christ and having that faith in Jesus Christ is the same thing to me as that is a work of God too.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith..... ( or believing in Jesus Christ ) 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. ( or by believing in Jesus Christ )

I'm not sure what translation you're quoting but I have never read the last word of v. 22 as being faith. In my preferred translation, the NET v2.1, it says " But the fruit of the Spirit is love joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,[aq] gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law." The translator's note [aq] says "Or “reliability”; see BDAG 818 s.v. πίστις 1.a." Neither faithfulness nor reliability have the same meaning as your "faith".

So which translation are you quoting that has "faith"?

 

[Hopeful]

The born again believer was granted God given Faith by Grace, in order to believe in Jesus Christ for his or her Salvation, so believing in this regard is not a work of man but a Gift from God to him by Grace.

That also means those who were not "gifted with belief/faith" will perish because of God.
That isn't the God I serve.

 

[JLB]

Exactly, the incongruity between night and day being as manifest as the division between unbelief and disobedience.

I do understand your laboring over a faulty translation .
I'm glad this proof of night and day was of help in clearing up this principle for you
You got it now, friend.

I'm glad to have been a help to you.

 

[Hopeful]

Brightfame
You have a difficult time understanding plain English.

Edward gave you a like because he doesn't understand what you posted above.

It SOUNDS sweet but it is NOT what scripture teaches.

We Christians like to believe what the bible teaches not what a man teaches or what the WCF teaches.

We believe FIRST,
And THEN we become born again.

NOT the other way around.
We are not born again so we could become born again.

Faith makes us born again.
No need to be born again TWICE as Only your denomination teaches.

(What is WCF?)