Criminal Charges Dropped Against La Pastor !

[jasonc]

The president asked the ngb to provide support ,the active army isn't trained for it and those that can are the mps and a tiny fraction where as all of the ng trains on it .air and army .

The ng would fall under the appropriate civilian authority.d.c. mayor or the congressional police .

 

[stovebolts]

I have no problem with churches that had physical distancing, had congregants wear masks, etc. I take issue with churches that did not follow government health mandates.

Then you would take issue with the church we attend…. We had none of that. When our governor closed churches with threat of police enforcement, our church didn’t bat an eye.

We’re all adults and are able to make our own decisions and asses our own risks. Many from the church I attend are anti vax, I am not. We had some very “interesting” face to face conversations. A few had very serious concerns for my safety because I received the vaccine. Who am I to argue with somebody I personally know that is genuinely concerned with my safety? It’s good to know others care for you, so I would thank them for their concerns and give them a smile.

If church services were/are being done in a way that either puts vulnerable people at risk or necessarily excludes them, then that is sin. And the same if they disobey any government health mandates. It is rebellion against God.

we didn’t view it that way. We respected the views of those who felt they needed to stay home and like many other churches, we started live streaming our services.

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

So if people protest the governor's mansion in Tallahassee ,just hire more cops in seconds ,Tallahassee isn't that big but grab a few thousands and they block off the roads .how many cops can then get there.

This is constitutional.a state may form a military to quell uprisings and to restore law and order .the rnc debates several years ago had the Florida nation guard redirecting traffic .

Any guard action during dsca,is under civilian authority .cops direct us and emplace us. We train for these things .

Riot control is part of all guard unit training .

All I know is don't want to see any military in uniform, only out of my highest respect for the military, aside from maybe a stolen valor village idiot it's not often i see military in uniform and that's a good thing. I don't think it's something I should see or the general public should see.

 

[Edward]

Here's where I part with you a little. You seem to be very supportive of government forcing the situation. You do not seem to support each of us taking responsibility for ourselves and our own actions. In other words, you seem to think that unless government or some other authority demands it, then it is not valid.

In our church, we trusted that attendees would do what was best. We changed the procedure and anyone that attended followed along. It wasn't a law or a rule just a procedure. Anyone that did not feel comfortable was free to choose not to attend in person and we made it possible for them to attend electronically so that we would not leave anyone out.

Well said and well done!

See? People are wiliing to cooperate and observe cautionary *procedures* to do their part to help the situation and the community. Just not at the end of a gun barrel and a badge.

 

[Edward]

I have no problem with churches that had physical distancing, had congregants wear masks, etc. I take issue with churches that did not follow government health mandates.

That's a very unpatriotic thing to say. Whose side are you on? If the Government had their way, vaccines would be mandated. I thought they were there to oversee, and make it take them 15 years of stringent testing to make a vaccine, not one year, or six months and force us to take it. That ludicrous.

If you are scared of the Christians gathering without masks or social distancing, then don't go to that church. It's a personal decision that is none of the Governments business!

 

[Free]

That the Government does not have the authority to tell the American people that they can not assemble for Worship Services to God.

Sure they do in exceptional circumstances, and they should.

If they was smart, they would work with Church leaders and help fund and organize prayer vigils for the nation and it's people.

You can’t argue for separation of Church and State and then make this argument.

And teach the people to repent of their sins...and then God would heal our land and we would prosper as a nation and as a people, and perhaps once again, gain the respect of the world.

Or, if churches would actually deal with their sinfulness and properly reflect Christ to the world. A good place to start would be to follow biblical ethics regarding the pandemic.

They are evil and you know it.

I have never said otherwise.

So the point is, they can not makes the people stay home. There is a separation of church and state, a legal principle.

In principle, yes, but but the Church is as much to blame as the State that it doesn’t work that way.

Governments job is to guard the borders and stuff, but nothing at all to do with anything which concerns ny church.

Guard the borders, ensure the smooth running of society, protect its citizens from internal threats, including deadly viruses, etc. There is a lot that concerns your church.

It may in fact be a good idea to stay home because somebody let a germ out and it's killing people, but not stay home from church! Surely you jest! The Lord is the only one who can help us. So it's the days where you either stand up for yourself or you acquiesce to the state, which is joining them in my mind. Today no church service, tomorrow, no church take this mark? No. This is something that we have to stand up for. I commend the Pastor and his church people for standing behind him.

I don’t jest. My previous arguments still stand. We either abide by biblical ethics or just forget the Bible altogether.

When the Government tries to interefere with any religious gathering, those are fighting words.

No, they’re not.

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

All I know is I don't fear my enemies so when people try pump my brain with fear over and over and over again saying I could die it's like tell me something I don't know.

They call the virus the enemy and try make me fear it like it could kill me. Tell me something that's not new. I got more in my life to worry about than a virus.

 

[Free]

Here's where I part with you a little. You seem to be very supportive of government forcing the situation.

I’m supportive of the government doing what is necessary to protect people’s health, especially since most were either clueless about what to do or just didn’t care.

You do not seem to support each of us taking responsibility for ourselves and our own actions. In other words, you seem to think that unless government or some other authority demands it, then it is not valid.

People in these forums that deny COVID, reject vaccines, and don’t follow mandates still go to church. They are plentiful in my church, still going when they are sick with COVID. Christian deniers, just like non-Christian deniers, are going to do whatever they want to do and risk people’s lives and health. Enough people have proven that they will not do what is right, so the government necessarily has to step in.

But, your statement also reflects, subtly, the selfishness of most Christians these days—“each of us taking responsibility for ourselves and our own actions.” Christians, first and foremost, are called to community. As a part of those communities, we are to put other’s interests ahead of our own and love others as we love ourselves (indeed all our neighbours). So, responsibility to others is at least as high, and I would argue higher, than any responsibility to ourselves. When our actions put others’ lives and health at risk, then we have abdicated our primary call and responsibility.

 

[Free]

Continuing from above, there were some that chose not to wear a mask but they respectfully kept their distance from others.

But this is putting other people at risk and is wrong, hence being selfish. It isn’t a matter of distancing when in an enclosed space. Any who may have the virus will eventually fill the room, and generally it doesn’t take long, but that depends on a number of factors, which many churches may not have taken into account.

 

[Free]

I can't talk for every human being who makes a rule everyone else is suppose to just accept and agree with without question, but when I was locked down and under government health mandates the health minister who locked everyone down thought it was ok to take his family to the beach and also go for a mountain bike ride while everyone else was banned.

Politicians are generally hypocrites. Nothing new there.

What are you calling a sin?

The things that I said were a sin.

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

Politicians are generally hypocrites. Nothing new there.


The things that I said were a sin.

So you said politicians are generally hypocrites, and a sin includes the same if they disobey any government health mandates that are given by politicians?

So just submit and bow down and dont even question whoever makes some random rule?

So like in UK for example when everything was forced to close at like 10pm curfew because someone decided to just make a rule and everyone should just accept it and believe it and go home because covid 19 starts night shift at 10pm or something?.

 

[jasonc]

So the suicides from self isolation is whose fault ? In the u.s. laws and constitution give it grant or limit rights not an unaccountable beauracrat .

The city manager of my city has no lawful power to force a church to close or any business .

An ordinance must be passed and this can be debated in chambers and citizen can speak out

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

So the suicides from self isolation is whose fault ? In the u.s. laws and constitution give it grant or limit rights not an unaccountable beauracrat .

The city manager of my city has no lawful power to force a church to close or any business .

An ordinance must be passed and this can be debated in chambers and citizen can speak out

People always want to control and rule other people but when it comes to taking responsibility for damages it might cause no one will accept it. Its a complete joke.

 

[jasonc]

People always want to control and rule other people but when it comes to taking responsibility for damages it might cause no one will accept it. Its a complete joke.

Politics ,a politician never admits his policies were wrong easily .

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

Some people just can't admit failure and failure is not always a bad thing you can learn from it, I mean if some people just admit it that can get a bit of respect. Denial doesn't earn respect.

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

If I wanted to go to church I will go to church. If I believe it's God's house of worship why should some human being tell me I'm not allowed , because God can't protect me but they can or something?. I don't know.

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

Just protecting me from going to God's house of worship and prayer so I don't get a virus.

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

Just keeping me safe from singing praise to the Lord, you never know I could get a virus and die. Its true, I could die from a virus, I could also die from a heart attack from all the stress and anxiety I been under.

 

[Free]

Then you would take issue with the church we attend…. We had none of that. When our governor closed churches with threat of police enforcement, our church didn’t bat an eye.

We’re all adults and are able to make our own decisions and asses our own risks. Many from the church I attend are anti vax, I am not. We had some very “interesting” face to face conversations. A few had very serious concerns for my safety because I received the vaccine. Who am I to argue with somebody I personally know that is genuinely concerned with my safety? It’s good to know others care for you, so I would thank them for their concerns and give them a smile.

Yes, I certainly do disagree. People are free to assess the risks, the problem is that should they get sick, they will almost certainly get others sick, including those who made a different risk assessment, and become a burden on the healthcare system. It has never been about the individual and individual choices. For believers, it has always been, or should have been, about doing what is best for society as a whole based on what the Bible teaches.

we didn’t view it that way. We respected the views of those who felt they needed to stay home and like many other churches, we started live streaming our services.

But whether one views it that way or not doesn’t matter. If people feel they must stay home from church in order to not risk catching COVID, especially those more vulnerable, then something is wrong; it is showing favouritism to those who are “healthy” and putting one’s own interests ahead of others’ interests.

There is a problem when Christians put the emphasis on gathering together but then conduct services in a manner that necessarily excludes people, even if live streaming is available (which is a good thing to have).

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

Yes, I certainly do disagree. People are free to assess the risks, the problem is that should they get sick, they will almost certainly get others sick, including those who made a different risk assessment, and become a burden on the healthcare system. It has never been about the individual and individual choices. For believers, it has always been, or should have been, about doing what is best for society as a whole based on what the Bible teaches.


But whether one views it that way or not doesn’t matter. If people feel they must stay home from church in order to not risk catching COVID, especially those more vulnerable, then something is wrong; it is showing favouritism to those who are “healthy” and putting one’s own interests ahead of others’ interests.

There is a problem when Christians put the emphasis on gathering together but then conduct services in a manner that necessarily excludes people, even if live streaming is available (which is a good thing to have).

Favoritism, you mean how everyone equally was forced to lock down to protect the most vulnerable and then only those with a health pass were allowed out and everyone else was forced to stay home?. As you know I was never for lockdowns or believed in it , yet I followed the rules because I don't believe I have more rights than anyone else, and when I see it reversed and only specific people are allowed out while others are banned, I don't go on that. That's a mockery.

You know a big group of veterans were on a flight and one individual was denied entry so they all got off the plane. You dont leave your fellow man behind. Respect to the veterans.