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Sanctions Killing The West, Not Russia

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Hidden In Him

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This one was obvious from the day the war in Ukraine started, but for anyone who might have doubted, the proof is now becoming evident. Those running the show deliberately sabotaged the WESTERN economies through the supposed sanctions "against Russia." Russia is going through considerable manpower and militarily equipment, but their economy is now marching along at a better clip than it was when the war began.

Lest anyone think the powers that be are and were simply "underestimating things," let me reiterate this again. They are NOT stupid, ok. They know exactly what they are doing, and they knew EXACTLY what would happen. The destruction of the Western economies - particularly the US economy - is proceeding apace EXACTLY as planned from the beginning. Anyone who thinks otherwise simply doesn't understand what they are watching take place.

1:05 +

 
What is thing place is what's been going on since late 2019. The sanctions on Russia are not what's stalling the ecconomy. My plant has been working through shortages since mid 2020. It's going to take time to rebuild supply chains.
 
They shut down the economy in lockdown and pump trllions back in created out of thin air and suddenly Russia is in Ukraine and it's sanctions and Russia fault for high cost of living.? Russia always get blamed. Lol.
 
I find it amazing how people were going on about the rich having too much money and inequality then suddenly covid hit and they supported lockdowns that was the biggest wealth grab for big corporations in the history of mankind who also received most the trllions in stimulus payments why small family business went bust and the regular person lost there job.

Then have a new comlplaint everythings is even more expensive now and they more broke and miserable. Maybe they don't realise nothing is free and they paying for it.
 
They shut down the economy in lockdown and pump trllions back in created out of thin air and suddenly Russia is in Ukraine and it's sanctions and Russia fault for high cost of living.? Russia always get blamed. Lol.
[/QUOeh, Russia did cause a decent amount of mess world fuel wise. Yeah, lockdowns disrupted supply chains, mixed with aid sent to corporations to help weather the pandemic, mixed with mass retirement, large world wide death counts, etc. It's a mess.
 
I find it amazing how people were going on about the rich having too much money and inequality then suddenly covid hit and they supported lockdowns that was the biggest wealth grab for big corporations in the history of mankind who also received most the trllions in stimulus payments why small family business went bust and the regular person lost there job.

Then have a new comlplaint everythings is even more expensive now and they more broke and miserable. Maybe they don't realise nothing is free and they paying for it.
I agree with lock downs, but did not care for the loose goosey way they were handled. Targeted lock downs with a mask mandate in areas where the virus was active would have been a better plan. The issue was that due to lobbies the relief money went to those that could weather the storm. The unemployment benefits helped, but that was also a mess.
 
I agree with lock downs, but did not care for the loose goosey way they were handled. Targeted lock downs with a mask mandate in areas where the virus was active would have been a better plan. The issue was that due to lobbies the relief money went to those that could weather the storm. The unemployment benefits helped, but that was also a mess.

Its ok if people agreed with lockdowns but I just don't want to hear there complaining now the cost of living is so expensive. What did people expect would happen when a economy is shut down and they pump it with currency created out of thin air.
 
This one was obvious from the day the war in Ukraine started, but for anyone who might have doubted, the proof is now becoming evident. Those running the show deliberately sabotaged the WESTERN economies through the supposed sanctions "against Russia." Russia is going through considerable manpower and militarily equipment, but their economy is now marching along at a better clip than it was when the war began.

Lest anyone think the powers that be are and were simply "underestimating things," let me reiterate this again. They are NOT stupid, ok. They know exactly what they are doing, and they knew EXACTLY what would happen. The destruction of the Western economies - particularly the US economy - is proceeding apace EXACTLY as planned from the beginning. Anyone who thinks otherwise simply doesn't understand what they are watching take place.

1:05 +

With all due respect, that is classic conspiracy-oriented thinking. The psychology and dynamics of conspiracy-oriented communities is one of my pet interests. There is an entire body of sociological, psychological and historical literature.

The Russian economy is not chugging along. The rise in the value of the ruble is an entirely artificial, manipulated phenomenon. Sanctions such as those that have been imposed do not take immediate effect - they may take years to achieve full effect - but the Russian and Belarusian people are feeling them. We have many relatives and friends in both countries. The purpose of the sanctions was not to cause an immediate internal collapse of Russia, which might well have provoked World War III.

There is certainly some overlap between the sanctions and what the Western economies are now experiencing - how could there not be? - but the support for Ukraine is not the root cause. The U.S. economy has been an artificial fantasy land for many years, with an eventual day of reckoning always on the horizon. Political and economic philosophies and policies having nothing to do with Russia or Ukraine are the root cause of what we are now experiencing, which is just the beginning.

I don't doubt that the Marxist "long, slow march through the institutions" is taking place in the U.S. and has been for at least 50 years. There are those who are actually hell-bent to transform the country in a Marxist direction. There likewise is and always has been a peculiarly American version of capitalist greed and perverted human nature. Throw in the mindless rush to globalization over the past 50 years and you have a recipe for disaster. And, of course, as a Christian I believe there is a supernatural dimension to all this.

Scapegoating - finding a target to demonize and blame - is a key indicator of conspiracy-oriented thinking. It seldom if ever really identifies and deals with the root cause of the problems. I don't believe the support for Ukraine in terms of sanctions or actual aid should become a scapegoat. The war in my opinion is a genuine battle of Good vs. Evil, and the causes of the problems the West is experiencing run far deeper, wider and longer than anything to do with Russia or Ukraine. All of us across the political and economic spectrum need to start by looking in the mirror.
 
Scapegoating - finding a target to demonize and blame - is a key indicator of conspiracy-oriented thinking. It seldom if ever really identifies and deals with the root cause of the problems. I don't believe the support for Ukraine in terms of sanctions or actual aid should become a scapegoat. The war in my opinion is a genuine battle of Good vs. Evil, and the causes of the problems the West is experiencing run far deeper, wider and longer than anything to do with Russia or Ukraine. All of us across the political and economic spectrum need to start by looking in the mirror.

We'd have to disagree on this one, and pretty strongly. But a lot of it will indeed depend on one's worldview. Mine is admittedly staunchly Christian, and leans heavily on the theory that the primary impetus behind what goes on on the international level is the war between God and Satan going on for the souls of men. When Satan offered Christ Jesus the kingdoms of this world it was not an empty offer, though some may think it was, nor would it be an empty offer today.

But I don't generally see the point in discussing such things with those not predisposed to it spiritually. It's something that one comes to if the Spirit of God reveals it, and until then there would be no point in arguing the issue.

God bless, and thanks for the post nonetheless.
 
The term scapegoating obviously has biblical origins. I specifically said in my post, "And, of course, as a Christian I believe there is a supernatural dimension to all this." The Christian belief that there actually is a struggle between Good and Evil is not scapegoating. It's the Christian ontology. We aren't "demonizing" the demonic - it actually is demonic according to the Christian ontology.

What occurs in scapegoating is what was being suggested in the OP to which I responded: We pick a convenient target - in this case, the aid to Ukraine and sanctions on Russia - and make it the explanation for the evils we perceive, when in fact (1) it has little or nothing to do with those evils and (2) the actual causes of those evils are much more complex (and often would require us to look in the mirror to really confront them).

As we see on forums such as this all the time, those prone to conspiracy-oriented thinking often overlay their Christian ontology on their scapegoats: A particular political party, politician, candidate or policy is "satanic," yada yada. It's a convenient way to avoid confronting the actual issues. I firmly believe that much religion falls more into the category of mental illness than spirituality.
 
A particular political party, politician, candidate or policy is "satanic," yada yada.

Then you believe there are those who serve the god of this world? Explain to what extent you believe those who consciously serve the Devil exert influence over the affairs of men, particularly International affairs.
 
The term scapegoating obviously has biblical origins. I specifically said in my post, "And, of course, as a Christian I believe there is a supernatural dimension to all this." The Christian belief that there actually is a struggle between Good and Evil is not scapegoating. It's the Christian ontology. We aren't "demonizing" the demonic - it actually is demonic according to the Christian ontology.

What occurs in scapegoating is what was being suggested in the OP to which I responded: We pick a convenient target - in this case, the aid to Ukraine and sanctions on Russia - and make it the explanation for the evils we perceive, when in fact (1) it has little or nothing to do with those evils and (2) the actual causes of those evils are much more complex (and often would require us to look in the mirror to really confront them).

As we see on forums such as this all the time, those prone to conspiracy-oriented thinking often overlay their Christian ontology on their scapegoats: A particular political party, politician, candidate or policy is "satanic," yada yada. It's a convenient way to avoid confronting the actual issues. I firmly believe that much religion falls more into the category of mental illness than spirituality.
Runner
It's not a conspiracy if what one believes is happening is really happening.

I wonder why we're experiencing a fuel shortage, food shortages which will probably get worse, my rights being disintegrated and an invasion of my privacy.

And, yes, governments do use scapegoats, just as the Hebrews did.

And what is really sad is that, I would say most, are just going along with the big plan.

And why not?
How does a person even hope to fight the state, which is powerful and has money galore.
 
Then you believe there are those who serve the god of this world? Explain to what extent you believe those who consciously serve the Devil exert influence over the affairs of men, particularly International affairs.
I'm not sure what you're asking. My point was that because we as Christians do believe that supernaturally evil forces influence human affairs, this can become a basis for scapegoating by those who are prone to conspiracy-oriented thinking. Because American evangelicals largely conflate "Christianity" with "right-wing America-first nationalism," then - voila! - every politician, candidate, policy and action that doesn't accord with right-wing America-first nationalism is "evil," "ungodly," "Satanic," etc., in the minds of those who engage in this sort of thinking.

I happen to be pretty much of a right-winger who voted for Trump twice (as well as Obama twice - go figure!). But I'm also sophisticated enough to see that conflating Christianity with any political agenda is very dangerous. Quite the opposite of scapegoating, I approach all matters on an issue-by-issue basis and try to deal with the actual merits of the respective positions. Some issues, such as abortion, do have a moral dimension. Some, such as gun ownership, don't. On some issues, I'm a solid conservative. On others I'm a solid progressive.

I have no way to determine the extent to which supernatural evil influences the affairs of men. Just looking at the descent into depravity in the U.S. and throughout the West, I would have to say "To quite a great extent." The challenge is to identify those who actually are serving evil without descending into conspiracy-oriented thinking and scapegoating. We need to look in the mirror and be sure we aren't the ones who are actually serving evil. As someone who is forced by circumstances to listen to a lot of conservative Christian talk radio, I hear a great deal of conspiracy-oriented thinking and scapegoating and am often struck by the notion that it's the hosts and their guests who are on the evil side of the spectrum.

Relative to the original post, I believe the invasion of Ukraine by Russia has a genuine moral dimension. I believe the Kremlin and the Russian Orthodox Church are, in this instance, quite possibly influenced by supernatural evil. I believe a godly response is to do all we can to aid Ukraine and bring the war to an end. If this is in fact wholly or partially responsible for increased inflation and higher prices in the U.S., my response would be "Too bad, but so what? Sometimes that's the price of following the godly path. Our 'suffering' at the gas pump and grocery store scarcely compares to the suffering in Ukraine, so we need to grow up."

But to then go beyond this and suggest that the aid and sanctions were "deliberate sabotage" of "Western economies" is classic conspiracy-oriented thinking. No, they weren't. They were appropriate actions that, in the effort to accomplish a greater good, happened to have some inevitable undesirable consequences. I'm not casting personal aspersions - I'm prone to conspiracy-oriented thinking myself and often have to stop and bring myself back to reality.
 
Runner
It's not a conspiracy if what one believes is happening is really happening.
"What is happening" is a matter of observable fact. "Why it is happening" is a separate question. A conspiracy may be why it is happening, or it may not. A conspiracy-oriented individual assumes a conspiracy that matches his or her worldview and then begins assembling scapegoats.
I wonder why we're experiencing a fuel shortage, food shortages which will probably get worse, my rights being disintegrated and an invasion of my privacy.
OK, those are legitimate things to wonder about. They aren't unfathomable mysteries. Careful research should provide a lot of the answers. "It must be a conspiracy by X, Y and Z" isn't a valid approach.
And, yes, governments do use scapegoats, just as the Hebrews did.
Of course. "The evil Jews" were the scapegoats of the Nazis. "The neo-Nazis in Ukraine" are the (largely imaginary) scapegoats of the Kremlin.
And what is really sad is that, I would say most, are just going along with the big plan.
Is there a big plan? What is it? Whose big plan is it? If we just assume we know - "It's THEM" - that's conspiracy-oriented thinking.
And why not?
How does a person even hope to fight the state, which is powerful and has money galore.
Move, perhaps? Distance yourself from the state and insulate yourself from its influence to the maximum extent possible, perhaps? I've chosen the latter course.
 
"What is happening" is a matter of observable fact. "Why it is happening" is a separate question. A conspiracy may be why it is happening, or it may not. A conspiracy-oriented individual assumes a conspiracy that matches his or her worldview and then begins assembling scapegoats.

OK, those are legitimate things to wonder about. They aren't unfathomable mysteries. Careful research should provide a lot of the answers. "It must be a conspiracy by X, Y and Z" isn't a valid approach.

Of course. "The evil Jews" were the scapegoats of the Nazis. "The neo-Nazis in Ukraine" are the (largely imaginary) scapegoats of the Kremlin.

Is there a big plan? What is it? Whose big plan is it? If we just assume we know - "It's THEM" - that's conspiracy-oriented thinking.

Move, perhaps? Distance yourself from the state and insulate yourself from its influence to the maximum extent possible, perhaps? I've chosen the latter course.
I meant the Hebrews in the bible.

I don't understand how you could take the latter course.

The state is everywhere.
I don't ask for any benefits and would rather do without their help.
But it's here anyway. The state, I mean.

Oh. And I'm not a conspiracy type person.
But I ve come to realize that the state is going much beyond what it was originally created for.

I think masonry might have something to do with all this. Maybe it's the OWO. We're getting poorer every day and it seems to be purposeful.

Then we're scared to the point that some are too afraid go even stop wearing their masks.

So,
Impoverishment
Fear
Control easily follows.

We've come to accept that we humans are the worst enemy of nature.
Can't think of anything else right now, but I know there's more.

My point is that I don't believe this falls under the title of conspiracy theory.
 
I don't understand how you could take the latter course.

The state is everywhere.
I don't ask for any benefits and would rather do without their help.
But it's here anyway. The state, I mean.
Oh, pretty easily. I live in a town of 10,000 that was bypassed by Interstate 40 in the 1980's and is pretty much like living in 1960. I locked all three credit reporting agencies years ago, have zero debt and make no use of credit. I have no presence whatsoever on social media. I turn on my cellphone for a few minutes every couple of days; even the robo-callers don't know I exist. I own no guns. My investments, to use the word loosely, are almost comically conservative. I'm as politically inactive as I could possibly be; when I vote, half the time I have no real idea who or what I'm voting for ("That sounds like a good name for a Senator"). I haven't been in a church in years. Although I'm not really an urban hermit, I'm pretty close. When the State (whoever or whatever that is) comes looking for its enemies, I'm probably not going to be on the list.
Oh. And I'm not a conspiracy type person.
But I ve come to realize that the state is going much beyond what it was originally created for.

I think masonry might have something to do with all this. Maybe it's the OWO. We're getting poorer every day and it seems to be purposeful.

Then we're scared to the point that some are too afraid go even stop wearing their masks.

So,
Impoverishment
Fear
Control easily follows.
Who or what is "the state" anyway? Any particular government? All governments? Just some monolithic Orwellian concept? Surely the Trump "state" and the Biden "state" weren't the same thing, or were they?

Masonry? Really? I just watched a documentary on Masonry, and they seemed mostly like sincere and genial goofballs ("Oh, sure, that's what they WANT you to think!" responds the conspiracy peanut gallery.)

I don't doubt there are those who would like to transform America and the world in a Marxist direction. The Marxist concept of a long, slow march through the institutions is a brilliant one and seems to have been wildly successful in the U.S. over the past 50 years. I likewise don't doubt there are those who would like to impose a one-world government and believe it would solve many problems (as, I'll have to admit, it probably would if we could just avoid that darn "Antichrist thing" :)). But good Lord, listen to a steady diet of Christian talk radio, as I do, and you'll find (or at least I do) that it all sounds just as conspiratorial and frightening.

It seems to me that we now have, as never before (probably due largely to electronic media), organized ideologies that are clashing on an unprecedented scale. I don't know how much of it is really "secret" or "conspiratorial" - it all seems pretty open and in-your-face to me. I don't have any optimism or any answers, which is why I'm just laying low and hunkering down.
We've come to accept that we humans are the worst enemy of nature.
Can't think of anything else right now, but I know there's more.

My point is that I don't believe this falls under the title of conspiracy theory.
Well, I do think we humans are the worst enemies of nature, but then I'm a pretty devout cat person.

Seeing actual problems and trying to understand and address the causes of them is perfectly rational. I just finished a really excellent, scholarly-but-readable book called Real Enemies: Conspiracy Theories and American Democracy, World War I to 9/11 by Kathryn S. Olmsted, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00319B312/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i1. She discusses (in depth) a series of historical incidents that gave rise to goofy conspiracy theories. Her point is that, in every case, there was real incompetence, malfeasance, covering up and whatnot on the part of those in government who handled the incidents. To a large extent, they were responsible for the bizarre conspiracy theories that later arose.

A rational inquiry would expose the incompetence, malfeasance and covering up and address it. Conspiracy-oriented thinking takes the same incident, filters it through a conspiracy lens, and builds a grand theory that focuses on all the wrong people (scapegoats) and often makes no sense even if it is emotionally satisfying to the conspiracy theorists.
 
I'm not sure what you're asking. My point was that because we as Christians do believe that supernaturally evil forces influence human affairs, this can become a basis for scapegoating by those who are prone to conspiracy-oriented thinking.

I understood your point, LoL.

Let me just leave it with this. If you are a Christian born again by the Spirit of God then you actually do have a way to determine the extent to which supernatural evil is influencing the affairs of men, and you are not asking Him. If you do not, not only will your worldview not be well-informed but you may also make snap judgments about what others are saying based on presumptions that they are speaking from typical empty-headed political mindsets rather than from a spiritual one.

But I do understand your point, and it can be very valid, depending on who you are talking about. Many are indeed guilty of it.

God bless,
- H
 
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