Many report there is a Judgment after Death, a "life review"

[Alfred Persson]

27 Inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once, and after this, judgment,
28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, without sin, to those who are eagerly waiting for him for salvation.
(Heb. 9:27-28 RPTE)

Do not confuse "Near Death Experience" with "After Death Experience". People who were medically dead report they experienced a time of super awareness and intelligence, where their life was reviewed during which they experienced every moment as if it was happening at that time.

This fits Universal Opportunity for Salvation, which is vastly different than the heretical "universal salvation". It proposes God so loved the KOSMOS of mankind (John 3:16-17; 1 John 2:2), the entire realm of mankind's existence which includes those who are dead and in Hades, that all who never had the opportunity to repent and believe in Jesus will hear the gospel when they are dead (1 Peter 4:6; John 5:25), and the many who repent are judged worthy of having Christ bear their sins, and they eagerly wait in Hades for Christ's second appearance, when they will rise with the Church at Christ's coming:

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. (1 Thess. 4:15-5:1 NKJ)

This is not a new doctrine. Clement of Alexandria (150-215) who spent his retirement years with the Bishop of the Church in Jerusalem, said this:

So I think it is demonstrated that God (being good) and the Lord (being powerful) both save with a righteousness and equality that extends to all who turn to God, whether here or elsewhere. For it is not here alone that the active power of God is present. Rather, it is everywhere and is always at work.… For it is not right that those persons [who died before Christ] should be condemned without trial, and that those alone who lived after His coming should have the advantage of the divine righteousness. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, EE Eastern), 2.491. Dead, Intermediate State of The. (1998). In D. W. Bercot (Ed.), A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs: A Reference Guide to More than 700 Topics Discussed by the Early Church Fathers (p. 192). Hendrickson Publishers.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

27 Inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once, and after this, judgment,
28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, without sin, to those who are eagerly waiting for him for salvation.
(Heb. 9:27-28 RPTE)

Do not confuse "Near Death Experience" with "After Death Experience". People who were medically dead report they experienced a time of super awareness and intelligence, where their life was reviewed during which they experienced every moment as if it was happening at that time.

This fits Universal Opportunity for Salvation, which is vastly different than the heretical "universal salvation". It proposes God so loved the KOSMOS of mankind (John 3:16-17; 1 John 2:2), the entire realm of mankind's existence which includes those who are dead and in Hades, that all who never had the opportunity to repent and believe in Jesus will hear the gospel when they are dead (1 Peter 4:6; John 5:25), and the many who repent are judged worthy of having Christ bear their sins, and they eagerly wait in Hades for Christ's second appearance, when they will rise with the Church at Christ's coming:

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. (1 Thess. 4:15-5:1 NKJ)

This is not a new doctrine. Clement of Alexandria (150-215) who spent his retirement years with the Bishop of the Church in Jerusalem, said this:

So I think it is demonstrated that God (being good) and the Lord (being powerful) both save with a righteousness and equality that extends to all who turn to God, whether here or elsewhere. For it is not here alone that the active power of God is present. Rather, it is everywhere and is always at work.… For it is not right that those persons [who died before Christ] should be condemned without trial, and that those alone who lived after His coming should have the advantage of the divine righteousness. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, EE Eastern), 2.491. Dead, Intermediate State of The. (1998). In D. W. Bercot (Ed.), A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs: A Reference Guide to More than 700 Topics Discussed by the Early Church Fathers (p. 192). Hendrickson Publishers.

How does this idea compare with the Apostle Paul's inspired words in Romans 1:18-21?

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

He says that God has revealed himself as the Creator through his creation, but because people reject or ignore him as their Maker, they are "without excuse" and are guilty before the just Judge of the universe. Therefore, they don't need a Universal Opportunity for Salvation; they've already had their chance to acknowledge him during this life and blown it.

 

[Alfred Persson]

How does this idea compare with the Apostle Paul's inspired words in Romans 1:18-21?

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

He says that God has revealed himself as the Creator through his creation, but because people reject or ignore him as their Maker, they are "without excuse" and are guilty before the just Judge of the universe. Therefore, they don't need a Universal Opportunity for Salvation; they've already had their chance to acknowledge him during this life and blown it.

Peter says Jesus is the only name that saves, but nothing in God's creation reveals that name:
"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. (Acts 4:12 NKJ)

Therefore, all not taught the name of Jesus saves in this life must hear it in the afterlife, just as Peter says:
For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:6 NKJ)

Atheists and polytheists are without excuse because Creation implies One Creator God. Notice how Paul says they became futile in their thinking, making idols.

But it would be impossible to infer the Gospel of Christ by studying the stars etc. That requires someone teaching it.

 

[Alfred Persson]

13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
(Rom. 10:13-14 NKJ)

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Peter says Jesus is the only name that saves, but nothing in God's creation reveals that name:
"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. (Acts 4:12 NKJ)

Therefore, all not taught the name of Jesus saves in this life must hear it in the afterlife, just as Peter says:
For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:6 NKJ)

Atheists and polytheists are without excuse because Creation implies One Creator God. Notice how Paul says they became futile in their thinking, making idols.

But it would be impossible to infer the Gospel of Christ by studying the stars etc. That requires someone teaching it.

Yes, but since humans reject their Creator, who reveals himself in his creation, they are without excuse, so Paul says. At the final judgment, they will not have "a leg to stand on" in defending their rebellion against their Creator.,

 

[Alfred Persson]

Yes, but since humans reject their Creator, who reveals himself in his creation, they are without excuse, so Paul says. At the final judgment, they will not have "a leg to stand on" in defending their rebellion against their Creator.,

If correct Paul would never say:

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? (Rom. 10:13-14 KJV)

Therefore, to know the Gospel of Christ a preacher is necessary. That is why the gospel is preached ALSO to the dead, so THEN they are without excuse:

For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:6 NKJ)

Paul said idolators, polytheists and atheists are without excuse because the reality of the Infinite Creator's existence logically follows from infinite Creation.

But that category doesn't include all who reject Jesus. The only way one can reject Jesus, is for someone to preach His Gospel first, so a person can decide whether to obey it or not.

 

[hawkman]

27 Inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once, and after this, judgment,
28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, without sin, to those who are eagerly waiting for him for salvation.
(Heb. 9:27-28 RPTE)

Do not confuse "Near Death Experience" with "After Death Experience". People who were medically dead report they experienced a time of super awareness and intelligence, where their life was reviewed during which they experienced every moment as if it was happening at that time.

This fits Universal Opportunity for Salvation, which is vastly different than the heretical "universal salvation". It proposes God so loved the KOSMOS of mankind (John 3:16-17; 1 John 2:2), the entire realm of mankind's existence which includes those who are dead and in Hades, that all who never had the opportunity to repent and believe in Jesus will hear the gospel when they are dead (1 Peter 4:6; John 5:25), and the many who repent are judged worthy of having Christ bear their sins, and they eagerly wait in Hades for Christ's second appearance, when they will rise with the Church at Christ's coming:

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. (1 Thess. 4:15-5:1 NKJ)

This is not a new doctrine. Clement of Alexandria (150-215) who spent his retirement years with the Bishop of the Church in Jerusalem, said this:

So I think it is demonstrated that God (being good) and the Lord (being powerful) both save with a righteousness and equality that extends to all who turn to God, whether here or elsewhere. For it is not here alone that the active power of God is present. Rather, it is everywhere and is always at work.… For it is not right that those persons [who died before Christ] should be condemned without trial, and that those alone who lived after His coming should have the advantage of the divine righteousness. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, EE Eastern), 2.491. Dead, Intermediate State of The. (1998). In D. W. Bercot (Ed.), A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs: A Reference Guide to More than 700 Topics Discussed by the Early Church Fathers (p. 192). Hendrickson Publishers.

Why do you have a fascination with the dead ? We can not contact them in any fashion or do anything to effect them .
The unsaved dead are in God's purview and He will do what He wills with them . We the living have no say so .

 

[Alfred Persson]

Why do you have a fascination with the dead ? We can not contact them in any fashion or do anything to effect them .
The unsaved dead are in God's purview and He will do what He wills with them . We the living have no say so .

The "classic view" of the unsaved dead, has offended many through the ages. It could be argued the "theory of evolution" wouldn't exist if Darwin wasn't so offended by it.

If the "classic view" is correct, so be it. Screw Darwin. And the millions deceived by him.

If the "classic view" is incorrect, a "Catholic distortion" of the NT view, then it is my sacred duty as a Christian to make that truth known.

I have no fascination with the dead. I love God and am offended He is being blasphemed because of heretical Catholic teaching, which unfortunately, Protestants didn't reject when they rejected other Catholic heresies.

 

[Free]

The "classic view" of the unsaved dead, has offended many through the ages.

And? Does that mean it’s false or should be changed? Many more are offended by the gospel.

It could be argued the "theory of evolution" wouldn't exist if Darwin wasn't so offended by it.

Could it? What, exactly, did Darwin say that makes you certain of your assertion?

If the "classic view" is correct

It almost certainly is the correct view.

If the "classic view" is incorrect, a "Catholic distortion" of the NT view, then it is my sacred duty as a Christian to make that truth known.

I have no fascination with the dead. I love God and am offended He is being blasphemed because of heretical Catholic teaching, which unfortunately, Protestants didn't reject when they rejected other Catholic heresies.

What “heretical Catholic teaching,” that there is no second chance after death? But that is what the Bible unequivocally teaches, which is why Protestants were right to not reject it.

 

[Alfred Persson]

And? Does that mean it’s false or should be changed? Many more are offended by the gospel.


Could it? What, exactly, did Darwin say that makes you certain of your assertion?


It almost certainly is the correct view.


What “heretical Catholic teaching,” that there is no second chance after death? But that is what the Bible unequivocally teaches, which is why Protestants were right to not reject it.

Put scriptures where your argument is. You probably should do so on my new thread challenging all Christian apologists to prove their adoption of Catholic heresy about hell is correct.

Incredibly, the post was moved to "Unorthodox"! The discussion about Eternal Torment wasn't considered an "apologetic topic!"

Is a rejection of Eternal Punishment considered an "apologetic" topic for discussion?

Yes, rejection of Eternal Punishment is absolutely an apologetic topic—especially when it challenges traditional doctrines and influences how people perceive the character of God, the justice of divine judgment, and the credibility of the Christian message.-Copilot

I can't believe it. But here is that OP:

https://christianforums.net/threads...-darwin-and-millions-to-reject-christ.114491/

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

If correct Paul would never say:

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? (Rom. 10:13-14 KJV)

Therefore, to know the Gospel of Christ a preacher is necessary. That is why the gospel is preached ALSO to the dead, so THEN they are without excuse:

For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:6 NKJ)

Paul said idolators, polytheists and atheists are without excuse because the reality of the Infinite Creator's existence logically follows from infinite Creation.

But that category doesn't include all who reject Jesus. The only way one can reject Jesus, is for someone to preach His Gospel first, so a person can decide whether to obey it or not.

Alfred Persson, where do you get the interpretation of Paul's words in Romans 1:18-20. In Romans 1:18--3:20, he is clearly saying that all Gentiles and Jews are guilty under God's law and must accept God the Judge's justification (not-guilty verdict) through Jesus' death to be saved. That includes every human.