The teachings (doctrine) of Christ; The Truth

[JLB]

Reference - http://truthseekersfellowship.com/gods-requirements/


The mind of Jesus is truth incarnate (John 1:14), and all truth manifests the Spirit of Christ or God (1John 5:6). The work of God (GRFS) is to seek and believe the truth, and part of the truth is that no one comes to know God as Father except through faith in God’s truth embodied as God the Son.

Teachings that are secondary or subsequent to learning GRFS may be indicated by another Greek word, didache, which means teaching. The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved. The distinction between kerygma/saving faith and didache/working faith was made by Jesus when He commissioned His original twelve disciples minus Judas (MT 28:19-20). This “Great Commission” speaks of both types of information. The kerygma is indicated by verse 19, in which Jesus says, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations”.

A Christian disciple is a learner or one who believes the good news about God’s offer of eternal life to all who accept Jesus as Christ, the Lord incarnate. The didache is implicit in verse 20, in which Jesus continues by saying “teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation. Witness the thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43, who had no opportunity to learn the didache after his conversion; although, like Paul (according to Acts 22:3) and most adults, some didachaic truth is learned prior to knowing the kerygma.


I would like to discuss the reference you made about Christ’s teachings which I will also refer to as the truth.

The statement that I’m addressing -

“Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation.”

I believe as I think you also believe that the words of Jesus Christ are referred to as the truth in the New Testament.

I hope we can have a fruitful discussion and seek to find common ground through the scriptures.


Here is just one of many scriptures that I believe teach us that taking heed to and therefore apply to our lives the teachings of Christ are essential to our salvation.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


There are of course more but I will start with this one.



Thanks. JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Reference - http://truthseekersfellowship.com/gods-requirements/


The mind of Jesus is truth incarnate (John 1:14), and all truth manifests the Spirit of Christ or God (1John 5:6). The work of God (GRFS) is to seek and believe the truth, and part of the truth is that no one comes to know God as Father except through faith in God’s truth embodied as God the Son.

Teachings that are secondary or subsequent to learning GRFS may be indicated by another Greek word, didache, which means teaching. The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved. The distinction between kerygma/saving faith and didache/working faith was made by Jesus when He commissioned His original twelve disciples minus Judas (MT 28:19-20). This “Great Commission” speaks of both types of information. The kerygma is indicated by verse 19, in which Jesus says, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations”.

A Christian disciple is a learner or one who believes the good news about God’s offer of eternal life to all who accept Jesus as Christ, the Lord incarnate. The didache is implicit in verse 20, in which Jesus continues by saying “teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation. Witness the thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43, who had no opportunity to learn the didache after his conversion; although, like Paul (according to Acts 22:3) and most adults, some didachaic truth is learned prior to knowing the kerygma.


I would like to discuss the reference you made about Christ’s teachings which I will also refer to as the truth.

The statement that I’m addressing -

“Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation.”

I believe as I think you also believe that the words of Jesus Christ are referred to as the truth in the New Testament.

I hope we can have a fruitful discussion and seek to find common ground through the scriptures.


Here is just one of many scriptures that I believe teach us that taking heed to and therefore apply to our lives the teachings of Christ are essential to our salvation.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


There are of course more but I will start with this one.



Thanks. JLB

OK
Found it.

I would also be interested in knowing EXACTLY what Groovy believes is not absolutely necessary for salvation.

And if he's using the Didache as a reference point.

 

[JLB]

OK
Found it.

I would also be interested in knowing EXACTLY what Groovy believes is not absolutely necessary for salvation.

And if he's using the Didache as a reference point.

Not the Didache.

Didache is the Greek for doctrine or teaching.

In 2 John 9, the word “doctrine” in the Greek is Didache.

 

[JLB]

OK
Found it.

I would also be interested in knowing EXACTLY what Groovy believes is not absolutely necessary for salvation.

And if he's using the Didache as a reference point.

I’m sure he will answer your question, once he finds this link.

Let’s be sure to allow him to address each one of our questions.

Have you gone to his site and read what he is teaching?

I don’t want this discussion to turn into the typical “Calvinist” back and forth.

Hopefully we can find some common ground.

This particular thread will hopefully focus on the teachings of Jesus Christ and the importance of following them and how a born again Christian can indeed find themselves in real trouble by ignoring what Jesus taught.

 

[JLB]

I would also be interested in knowing EXACTLY what @Groovy believes

I copied and pasted from his site the topic I wanted to discuss in this thread.

Primarily these two statements.

• This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation.

• The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved.

 

[GodsGrace]

Not the Didache.

Didache is the Greek for doctrine or teaching.

In 2 John 9, the word “doctrine” in the Greek is Didache.


View attachment 21835

OK.
I understand.
He's using the word DIDACHE to mean TEACHING.

 

[GodsGrace]

I copied and pasted from his site the topic I wanted to discuss in this thread.

Primarily these two statements.

• This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation.

• The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved.

I'm questioning the same and have tagged him, so he should get here eventually.

 

[Groovy]

Reference - http://truthseekersfellowship.com/gods-requirements/


The mind of Jesus is truth incarnate (John 1:14), and all truth manifests the Spirit of Christ or God (1John 5:6). The work of God (GRFS) is to seek and believe the truth, and part of the truth is that no one comes to know God as Father except through faith in God’s truth embodied as God the Son.

Teachings that are secondary or subsequent to learning GRFS may be indicated by another Greek word, didache, which means teaching. The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved. The distinction between kerygma/saving faith and didache/working faith was made by Jesus when He commissioned His original twelve disciples minus Judas (MT 28:19-20). This “Great Commission” speaks of both types of information. The kerygma is indicated by verse 19, in which Jesus says, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations”.

A Christian disciple is a learner or one who believes the good news about God’s offer of eternal life to all who accept Jesus as Christ, the Lord incarnate. The didache is implicit in verse 20, in which Jesus continues by saying “teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation. Witness the thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43, who had no opportunity to learn the didache after his conversion; although, like Paul (according to Acts 22:3) and most adults, some didachaic truth is learned prior to knowing the kerygma.


I would like to discuss the reference you made about Christ’s teachings which I will also refer to as the truth.

The statement that I’m addressing -

“Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation.”

I believe as I think you also believe that the words of Jesus Christ are referred to as the truth in the New Testament.

I hope we can have a fruitful discussion and seek to find common ground through the scriptures.

Here is just one of many scriptures that I believe teach us that taking heed to and therefore apply to our lives the teachings of Christ are essential to our salvation.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

There are of course more but I will start with this one.



Thanks. JLB

Okay, I made it here! Yay!
Now I will explain the difference indicated in Scripture between the essential Gospel (God's requirement for salvation or GRFS) that must be the content of saving faith at least implicitly and secondary doctrines that are needed for spiritual growth after belief in the Gospel. I will begin at the beginning of Lesson 2 in our website.

[[A crisis that threatened a Philippian jailer with death prompted him to ask Paul and Silas the most important question in life: “What must I do to be saved?” (Acts 16:30) This question is most important, because—as sinful and mortal souls—we need saving from corruption, both moral and physical. We need saving from physical death if we value or enjoy life, and we need saving from immorality or evil-doing if it results in unhappy existence, especially after this lifetime.

The reply of Paul and Silas was this: “Believe in the Lord Jesus.” (Acts 16:31) This is GRFS in a nutshell. Jesus Himself expressed GRFS even more succinctly using three, four and five letter words: “Ask… seek… knock…” (Matt. 7:7). GRFS may be denoted by the use of the Greek word kerygma, meaning proclamation or preaching, referring to the good news (Gospel) concerning salvation to heaven and from a just hell (the DOD, cf. Rom. 1:16, Gal. 1:6-12, Col. 1:21-23). This Gospel was preached by Peter (in Acts 2:22-24) and summarized by Paul (in 1Cor. 15:1-8). The salient points include: Jesus was a man, accredited by God (to be Messiah), who died on a cross, but who was raised or resurrected from the dead. Messiah is the Way to heaven.

Skipping the rabbit I chase on the website at this point regarding an obvious question to ask, “What is GRFS for those who have never heard of Jesus?”, we will continue by noting that the kerygma or GRFS can be stated in various ways, which may cause confusion. Some statements (e.g. Acts 16:31, quoted previously, & Eph. 2:8-9) are in terms of believing right, and others (e.g. Matt. 7:21, “only he who does the will of my Father will enter heaven”, cf. Gal. 6:7-9 & Eph. 2:10) are in terms of behaving right. This prompts the question: Is salvation obtained by believing God’s words or by doing God’s works?

The answer is indicated by John 6:29: “The work of God is to believe in the one [Messiah/Christ] He has sent.” As Jesus stated (in John 14:6): “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” The mind of Jesus is truth incarnate (John 1:14), and all truth manifests the Spirit of Christ or God (1John 5:6). The work of God (GRFS) is to seek and believe the truth, and part of the truth is that no one comes to know God as Father except through faith in God’s truth embodied as God the Son.

Okay, I am not finished explaining the kerygma, but rather than dump the whole load I would like to pause at this point and see if everyone is tracking. Any questions, comments, feedback or need for clarification so far?

Over...

 

[JLB]

Okay, I made it here! Yay!
Now I will explain the difference indicated in Scripture between the essential Gospel (God's requirement for salvation or GRFS) that must be the content of saving faith at least implicitly and secondary doctrines that are needed for spiritual growth after belief in the Gospel. I will begin at the beginning of Lesson 2 in our website.

[[A crisis that threatened a Philippian jailer with death prompted him to ask Paul and Silas the most important question in life: “What must I do to be saved?” (Acts 16:30) This question is most important, because—as sinful and mortal souls—we need saving from corruption, both moral and physical. We need saving from physical death if we value or enjoy life, and we need saving from immorality or evil-doing if it results in unhappy existence, especially after this lifetime.

The reply of Paul and Silas was this: “Believe in the Lord Jesus.” (Acts 16:31) This is GRFS in a nutshell. Jesus Himself expressed GRFS even more succinctly using three, four and five letter words: “Ask… seek… knock…” (Matt. 7:7). GRFS may be denoted by the use of the Greek word kerygma, meaning proclamation or preaching, referring to the good news (Gospel) concerning salvation to heaven and from a just hell (the DOD, cf. Rom. 1:16, Gal. 1:6-12, Col. 1:21-23). This Gospel was preached by Peter (in Acts 2:22-24) and summarized by Paul (in 1Cor. 15:1-8). The salient points include: Jesus was a man, accredited by God (to be Messiah), who died on a cross, but who was raised or resurrected from the dead. Messiah is the Way to heaven.

Skipping the rabbit I chase on the website at this point regarding an obvious question to ask, “What is GRFS for those who have never heard of Jesus?”, we will continue by noting that the kerygma or GRFS can be stated in various ways, which may cause confusion. Some statements (e.g. Acts 16:31, quoted previously, & Eph. 2:8-9) are in terms of believing right, and others (e.g. Matt. 7:21, “only he who does the will of my Father will enter heaven”, cf. Gal. 6:7-9 & Eph. 2:10) are in terms of behaving right. This prompts the question: Is salvation obtained by believing God’s words or by doing God’s works?

The answer is indicated by John 6:29: “The work of God is to believe in the one [Messiah/Christ] He has sent.” As Jesus stated (in John 14:6): “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” The mind of Jesus is truth incarnate (John 1:14), and all truth manifests the Spirit of Christ or God (1John 5:6). The work of God (GRFS) is to seek and believe the truth, and part of the truth is that no one comes to know God as Father except through faith in God’s truth embodied as God the Son.

Okay, I am not finished explaining the kerygma, but rather than dump the whole load I would like to pause at this point and see if everyone is tracking. Any questions, comments, feedback or need for clarification so far?

Over...

Thank you. I’m glad you made it.

I was hoping you would address my post with the main point I listed.

• This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation.

• The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved.

I believe that the didache, the doctrine of Christ is very necessary for born again Christians to continue in salvation or remain in Christ whereas you believe it is not.

That’s the only point from your writings I am wanting to discuss.

Here is the scripture I posted that addresses this issue.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

If you would like for me to list a specific scripture from His teachings I will.



Thanks for your time to discuss these things.



JLB

 

[Groovy]

Thank you. I’m glad you made it.

I was hoping you would address my post with the main point I listed.

• This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation.
• The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved.

I believe that the didache, the doctrine of Christ is very necessary for born again Christians to continue in salvation or remain in Christ whereas you believe it is not.
That’s the only point from your writings I am wanting to discuss.

Here is the scripture I posted that addresses this issue.
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

If you would like for me to list a specific scripture from His teachings I will.

Thanks for your time to discuss these things.
JLB

JLB, Patience my brother, I understand your question, but just as Scripture needs to be interpreted in context, so does the didache need to be discussed in connection with the kerygma, so please allow me to continue with my train of thought as others may want to join us. We now arrive at the didache station.

Teachings that are secondary or subsequent to learning GRFS may be indicated by another Greek word, didache, which means teaching. The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved. The distinction between kerygma/saving faith and didache/working faith was made by Jesus when He commissioned His original twelve disciples minus Judas (Matt. 28:19-20). This “Great Commission” speaks of both types of information. The kerygma is indicated by verse 19, in which Jesus says, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations”.

A Christian disciple is a learner or one who believes the good news about God’s offer of eternal life to all who accept Jesus as Christ, the Lord incarnate. The didache is implicit in verse 20, in which Jesus continues by saying “teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation. Witness the thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43, who had no opportunity to learn the didache after his conversion; although, like Paul (according to Acts 22:3) and most adults, some didachaic truth is learned prior to knowing the kerygma.

The distinction between kerygma and didache can be seen also in 2 Timothy 3:15-17. The scriptures “which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus” refers to the Gospel or kerygma. The scriptural teaching that is useful for “training in righteousness, so that the man [or woman per Gal. 3:28] of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” refers to the didache. The apostle Paul also employs the difference between kerygma and didache in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. The “foundation… which is Jesus Christ” is the kerygmatic teaching regarding salvation. Paul alludes to the didache when he says that one should be careful how he/she builds upon this foundation.

The distinction between kerygma and didache involves a difference in content and purpose. The kerygma proclaims GRFS, which calls for repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Lord, which is an all or nothing decision that occurs at one moment in time. The didache teaches God’s will regarding how saints or sinners who have been saved should live in order to be a good witness for Christ, which involves learning more of God’s Word throughout one’s lifetime. A passage teaching this truth is Colossians 2:6-7: “Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord [kerygma], continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught [didache].”

There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace or motivates good works while walking/living (Eph. 2:8-10, 2Cor. 5:7), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime (Rom. 1:17). IOW, the ability to do good works as well as have saving faith are both due to God’s grace.

Okay, hopefully JLB is happy now, but I am still not finished explaining the kerygma and didache. Again, I would like to pause and see if someone has a question, comment, feedback or need for clarification.

 

[JLB]

Okay, hopefully JLB is happy now, but I am still not finished explaining the kerygma and didache. Again, I would like to pause and see if someone has a question, comment, feedback or need for clarification.

Yes. I have a question.

How can you say the teaching, (Didache) of Christ… is very important but not necessary for salvation.

The following scripture plainly states that transgressing beyond the doctrine of Christ can indeed lead a person to no longer have Him.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
2 John 9

If a person no longer has Christ then they have become separated from Him, and thus separated from the eternal life that is only found in Christ.

Here is a specific example of transgressing the doctrine (Didache) of Christ and thus violating the law of love.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

If a brother does not have eternal life remaining in him, then he no longer has eternal life.


So we see the doctrine of Christ, which is one of the three truth essentials of salvation, must be obeyed in order to continually “have Christ”.

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
1 John 5:12

 

[GodsGrace]

JLB, Patience my brother, I understand your question, but just as Scripture needs to be interpreted in context, so does the didache need to be discussed in connection with the kerygma, so please allow me to continue with my train of thought as others may want to join us. We now arrive at the didache station.

Teachings that are secondary or subsequent to learning GRFS may be indicated by another Greek word, didache, which means teaching. The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved. The distinction between kerygma/saving faith and didache/working faith was made by Jesus when He commissioned His original twelve disciples minus Judas (Matt. 28:19-20). This “Great Commission” speaks of both types of information. The kerygma is indicated by verse 19, in which Jesus says, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations”.

A Christian disciple is a learner or one who believes the good news about God’s offer of eternal life to all who accept Jesus as Christ, the Lord incarnate. The didache is implicit in verse 20, in which Jesus continues by saying “teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation. Witness the thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43, who had no opportunity to learn the didache after his conversion; although, like Paul (according to Acts 22:3) and most adults, some didachaic truth is learned prior to knowing the kerygma.

The distinction between kerygma and didache can be seen also in 2 Timothy 3:15-17. The scriptures “which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus” refers to the Gospel or kerygma. The scriptural teaching that is useful for “training in righteousness, so that the man [or woman per Gal. 3:28] of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” refers to the didache. The apostle Paul also employs the difference between kerygma and didache in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. The “foundation… which is Jesus Christ” is the kerygmatic teaching regarding salvation. Paul alludes to the didache when he says that one should be careful how he/she builds upon this foundation.

The distinction between kerygma and didache involves a difference in content and purpose. The kerygma proclaims GRFS, which calls for repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Lord, which is an all or nothing decision that occurs at one moment in time. The didache teaches God’s will regarding how saints or sinners who have been saved should live in order to be a good witness for Christ, which involves learning more of God’s Word throughout one’s lifetime. A passage teaching this truth is Colossians 2:6-7: “Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord [kerygma], continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught [didache].”

There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace or motivates good works while walking/living (Eph. 2:8-10, 2Cor. 5:7), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime (Rom. 1:17). IOW, the ability to do good works as well as have saving faith are both due to God’s grace.

Okay, hopefully JLB is happy now, but I am still not finished explaining the kerygma and didache. Again, I would like to pause and see if someone has a question, comment, feedback or need for clarification.

Kerygma is what saves us initially...
Faith in Jesus.

Didache are the teachings of Jesus.
Do you believe that obedience to Jesus keeps us saved?
Is disobedience a factor in no longer having faith in Jesus?

I like your statement that kerygma is a one time decision that must be made...
instead Didache, and the learning thereof, is a life-long process.

Why not just use the words Justification and Sanctification?

 

[Groovy]

Yes. I have a question.
How can you say the teaching, (Didache) of Christ… is very important but not necessary for salvation.
The following scripture plainly states that transgressing beyond the doctrine of Christ can indeed lead a person to no longer have Him.
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
2 John 9
If a person no longer has Christ then they have become separated from Him, and thus separated from the eternal life that is only found in Christ.
Here is a specific example of transgressing the doctrine (Didache) of Christ and thus violating the law of love.
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
If a brother does not have eternal life remaining in him, then he no longer has eternal life.
So we see the doctrine of Christ, which is one of the three truth essentials of salvation, must be obeyed in order to continually “have Christ”.
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
1 John 5:12

I think the last part of my explanation regarding the difference between kerygma and didache will answer your question. If not, please ask again.

Notice that the kerygma/Gospel fulfills and supersedes OT revelation, but does not contradict its correct interpretation (Heb. 8:6-13). However, the NT revelation of GRFS will never become obsolete (Phil. 2:9-11, Rev. 22:12-13). Thus, new revelations from God’s Holy Spirit will not contradict the Gospel, although they may express its truth in a different way or form, or else God would be inconsistent or tricky. There may be new wine skins, but no new wine (Matt. 19:17). Post-NT inspiration must be didachaic information regarding contemporary moral or political issues.

The kerygma/GRFS should be every Christian’s creed, and only belief in this crucial truth should be viewed as a test for orthodoxy or heresy. As Paul wrote in Romans 10:9, “If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Conversely, judgments concerning a person’s spiritual orientation or ultimate destiny should not be made on the basis of didachaic or secondary doctrines. (If any judgment is made, it should begin with a self-examination per Matt. 7:1&5, 2Cor. 13:5-8).

A major reason many Christians throughout history have not manifested the love and unity of God’s Spirit (Eph. 4:3) as well as they should is because of failure to realize this truth. If they did, it would free them to speak honestly and fellowship without becoming unduly upset about relatively minor issues. They would receive God’s blessing as peacemakers, who draw inclusive circles around people based on the kerygma rather than denominational lines between them due to didachaic differences. Jesus prayed for spiritual unity (cf. John 17:20-23, “May they be one…”). Thus, unity regarding the Gospel is more important than accuracy regarding doctrinal details.

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s grace or justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (Matt. 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with all who truly accept/love Him (Rev. 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven after Christ returns when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).

Although perfection is not achieved in this life, the necessity of learning the didache in order to strive for perfection indicates the need for perseverance or to keep on learning and growing spiritually until we die physically (PHP 3:12-14). Thus, although learning any specific part of the didache is not GRFS, a person who does not “hunger and thirst for righteousness” (MT 5:6) or want to learn “every word that comes from the mouth of God” (MT 4:4) fails the self-examination Paul commanded and Jesus implied (mentioned previously).

Did that answer your question JLB?

 

[Groovy]

Kerygma is what saves us initially...
Faith in Jesus.

Didache are the teachings of Jesus.
Do you believe that obedience to Jesus keeps us saved?
Is disobedience a factor in no longer having faith in Jesus?

I like your statement that kerygma is a one time decision that must be made...
instead Didache, and the learning thereof, is a life-long process.

Why not just use the words Justification and Sanctification?

Yes, GG, faith in the kerygma is salvific, and faith in the didache is sanctifying or keeps the believer saved (no divorce), even though no one achieves moral perfection in this life (PHP 3:12); but no one who lacks divine love will reap eternal life with God (GL 6:7-8). Thus, a person who claims to be godly but who is behaving in an ungodly (unloving, untruthful) manner may be in one of the following categories:

a. a normally loving person observed during a rare moment when he/she acted uncharacteristically (PHP 3:12-16),
b. an immature Believer, who is making progress–you should have known him/her a year ago! (1CR 3:1-3, EPH 4:11-15)
c. a truthseeker who has not yet learned the correct interpretation of God’s Word (1CR 6:9-11, EPH 5:8-9), or
d. a pseudo-Christian (MT 7:21, 1JN 2:19), who may affirm morality while rejecting its divine rationale.
e. an apostate (1JN 2:19, HB 6:4-6), who once believed but became blasphemous or foolish and ship-wrecked their faith (1TM 1:19-20).

Paul listed some sins he implied genuine Christians would not typically commit (in 1CR 6:9-10), saying: “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” Apparently, although a new Christian might commit such sins occasionally, it is inconceivable (because antithetical to NT teaching) that a mature Christian would commit them so typically that the person could be classified as an adulterer, for example. Atheists might try to practice the “Golden Rule”, but the key issue for them on judgment day will be explaining what good reason they had for rejecting God rather than glorifying Him as the One who determines what is good/golden.

Sinners can overcome selfishness only by becoming one with Christ via faith in Him/God as Lord and thereby sharing His goodness because of union with His/God’s Holy Spirit. This spiritual union is denoted by references to those who have saving faith as children of God the Father (RM 8:14-16). This is why Christianity is a relationship with God motivated by gratitude for God’s grace (PS 100, EPH 2:4-8) rather than a legalistic religion of working to merit God’s mercy because of fear of punishment.

Again, the evidence of saving faith or satisfying GRFS is working faith, love or helping humanity (JN 13:35). Disciples of Jesus (or Believers) tend to love and help others, not by virtue of their own goodness, but because they are moved or motivated by the loving Spirit of the Lord. Christians love everyone by reflecting God’s love (MT 5:44&48, 1TM 2:3-4, RM 5:5-8 & 1JN 4:7-19). Humans can never become good enough to earn or merit salvation as a reward for right behavior. A person cannot be good by doing good. Those who try to attain heaven by imitating Christ-like behavior without accepting Christ’s Lordship and atonement do not merely fall short (RM 3:23) but actually go in the opposite direction (GL 5:4), so we should cooperate with God’s Way.

Does this answer your question GG?

 

[JLB]

Did that answer your question JLB?

No sir.

Here was my question.

How can you say the teaching, (Didache) of Christ… is very important but not necessary for salvation.


I will ask it another way.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
2 John 9

Based on the scripture 2 John 9, do you believe people who transgress and therefore do not remain in the doctrine (didache) of Christ still have God?

If we no longer have Christ, we no longer have eternal life.

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12

 

[JLB]

Conversely, judgments concerning a person’s spiritual orientation or ultimate destiny should not be made on the basis of didachaic or secondary doctrines.

Christ command was that we love.

If a brother begins to hate his brother for whatever reason then they have violated the doctrine of Christ.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

That person no longer has eternal life remaining in him.

Surely you see that obeying His doctrine is a salvation issue just as much as obeying the His gospel, as well as obeying His commandments.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

Are you are aware that “I know Him” means “I have eternal life”?

 

[Groovy]

No sir.
Here was my question.
How can you say the teaching, (Didache) of Christ… is very important but not necessary for salvation.
I will ask it another way.
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
2 John 9
Based on the scripture 2 John 9, do you believe people who transgress and therefore do not remain in the doctrine (didache) of Christ still have God?
If we no longer have Christ, we no longer have eternal life.
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12

Okay, what I say is that Christ, the NT and all of GW taught two categories:

1. What a sinner needs to learn/believe in order to be saved, which I call the kerygma.
2. What a saved sinner needs to learn/believe in order to become morally/spiritually mature.

Abiding in Christ = perseverance, which serves as both kerygma and didache per point #5:
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with all who truly accept/love Him (Rev. 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven after Christ returns when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).

So yes, I believe 2John 9 is part of the kerygma along with the 16 Scriptures below:

MT 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”

RM 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”

1CR 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”

GL 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”

CL 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”

2THS 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”

2TM 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”

HB 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”

HB 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.” This passage indicates that apostasy may be viewed as total depravity or blasphemy against the HS (MT 12:31).

HB 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”

JM 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”

2PT 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”

2PT 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”

1JN 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”

JUDE 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”

RV 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”

 

[Groovy]

Christ command was that we love.
If a brother begins to hate his brother for whatever reason then they have violated the doctrine of Christ.
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
That person no longer has eternal life remaining in him.
Surely you see that obeying His doctrine is a salvation issue just as much as obeying the His gospel, as well as obeying His commandments.
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4
Are you are aware that “I know Him” means “I have eternal life”?

Yes, the command to love is part of point #4:
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s grace or justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (Matt. 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2).

How do you like the distinction between kerygma and didache as I explained Scripture defining the terms?

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, GG, faith in the kerygma is salvific, and faith in the didache is sanctifying or keeps the believer saved (no divorce), even though no one achieves moral perfection in this life (PHP 3:12); but no one who lacks divine love will reap eternal life with God (GL 6:7-8). Thus, a person who claims to be godly but who is behaving in an ungodly (unloving, untruthful) manner may be in one of the following categories:

a. a normally loving person observed during a rare moment when he/she acted uncharacteristically (PHP 3:12-16),
b. an immature Believer, who is making progress–you should have known him/her a year ago! (1CR 3:1-3, EPH 4:11-15)
c. a truthseeker who has not yet learned the correct interpretation of God’s Word (1CR 6:9-11, EPH 5:8-9), or
d. a pseudo-Christian (MT 7:21, 1JN 2:19), who may affirm morality while rejecting its divine rationale.
e. an apostate (1JN 2:19, HB 6:4-6), who once believed but became blasphemous or foolish and ship-wrecked their faith (1TM 1:19-20).

I'm happy that you added an apostate because, according to some, there is no such person.
If so,,,,then they say that they were never saved to begin with....no such verse in the NT.

I believe what you're saying is correct and biblically sound.
We must make the decision and come to believe.
Jesus must not only be our Savior, but our Lord.
Some forget the Lord part.

I'm often reprimanded for stating that we must REMAIN saved...
this seems to be called "works salvation".
IOW...cooperating with God is works.
Some call our works filthy rags, as if they insult God.

So, I believe you're saying that we must obey God and follow his commandments once we become saved.

Sounds simple and sounds like the truth.

I've read the actual DIDACHE (approx 90AD) and it begins by stating
THERE ARE TWO WAYS...
ONE LEADS TO LIFE
ONE LEADS TO DEATH
(my words)

It states what we are TO DO to be saved.
Jesus does the same in Matthew 7, and other chapters.

So I think we might agree...
unless you have something to add.

Paul listed some sins he implied genuine Christians would not typically commit (in 1CR 6:9-10), saying: “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” Apparently, although a new Christian might commit such sins occasionally, it is inconceivable (because antithetical to NT teaching) that a mature Christian would commit them so typically that the person could be classified as an adulterer, for example. Atheists might try to practice the “Golden Rule”, but the key issue for them on judgment day will be explaining what good reason they had for rejecting God rather than glorifying Him as the One who determines what is good/golden.

Agreed.

Sinners can overcome selfishness only by becoming one with Christ via faith in Him/God as Lord and thereby sharing His goodness because of union with His/God’s Holy Spirit. This spiritual union is denoted by references to those who have saving faith as children of God the Father (RM 8:14-16). This is why Christianity is a relationship with God motivated by gratitude for God’s grace (PS 100, EPH 2:4-8) rather than a legalistic religion of working to merit God’s mercy because of fear of punishment.

Agreed.

Again, the evidence of saving faith or satisfying GRFS is working faith, love or helping humanity (JN 13:35). Disciples of Jesus (or Believers) tend to love and help others, not by virtue of their own goodness, but because they are moved or motivated by the loving Spirit of the Lord. Christians love everyone by reflecting God’s love (MT 5:44&48, 1TM 2:3-4, RM 5:5-8 & 1JN 4:7-19). Humans can never become good enough to earn or merit salvation as a reward for right behavior. A person cannot be good by doing good. Those who try to attain heaven by imitating Christ-like behavior without accepting Christ’s Lordship and atonement do not merely fall short (RM 3:23) but actually go in the opposite direction (GL 5:4), so we should cooperate with God’s Way.

Does this answer your question GG?