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  1. D

    The Five Points of Calvinism

    I am willing to have a formal debate on the matter of Calvinism if anyone is interested. :)
  2. D

    The Five Points of Calvinism

    It appears that your opponent was under a different impression as to what the debate would be on, given the context of your conversation here. This is why it is good to be very clear about the parameters of the debate prior to starting. This forum welcomes the free expression of dissension on...
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    The Five Points of Calvinism

    This isn't the debate thread, and it isn't that we simply prefer him to you, that's not the case. I don't know you to be honest. However, we are basing our assessment off the merits of what you posted, which we deemed to be unreasonably long. Nothing personal, it was meant to be constructive...
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    The Five Points of Calvinism

    You are welcome to address them at a reasonable length in this very thread, and I would be more than happy to oblige those objections with a response. However, I was only giving you some pointers about debating, as Butch5 isn't going to respond to 54 pages worth of material. I don't know if...
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    The Five Points of Calvinism

    That's basically an impossible amount to expect someone to be able to respond to all at once. I recommend working on being more concise, and even agreeing to a character limit prior to the debate if necessary. If the arguments are too long, then there will be points left unaddressed. I always...
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    The Five Points of Calvinism

    v3 was not integral to the point I was making, I skipped past v1 and other verses that didn't highlight information about the disciples. If this was meant to be a full exegesis of John 17, then it would have been a lot longer and a lot more in depth. I also would have reference "eternal life,"...
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    The Five Points of Calvinism

    I agree with all of that except that the election referenced in John 13:18 being particularly of salvation. I do think that the apostles were elected and were determined to be saved, but I disagree that this is the primary element of that election. I think the purpose to which they were...
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    The Five Points of Calvinism

    I guess that makes it clearer, and I think the counter argument to your bit about demons is that they claimed to be "angels," (see Revelation 19 and 20, etc.) and that they would have then at one point been in the presence of God, thus they would know who Jesus is as they would recognize him and...
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    The Five Points of Calvinism

    It is a reference, that is a reference that is applied to the close disciples. v.24 is when he transitions back to the close disciples, but v.20-23 are a reference to believers, and in v.23 in particular that their unity will bring about revelation of God to more and more people in the world...
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    The Five Points of Calvinism

    Hi Butch5, This still doesn't seem totally clear for me, can you elaborate a little more and perhaps provide a Scripture or two to support it? Thanks!
  11. D

    The Five Points of Calvinism

    How then would you describe that God the Father revealed that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God to him?
  12. D

    The Five Points of Calvinism

    Perhaps that is explained with the expectations that the disciples and indeed most Jews had about who the Messiah (Christ) would be. In that many of them were expecting him to overthrow the Roman occupation and liberate Israel. Which is why they quarreled over who would sit on his right hand...
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    The Five Points of Calvinism

    I'm a bit confused by this argument, as if a sentence was just an assortment of words that we can bold and take out of their context in order to make it apply to whoever or mean whatever we want. Yes, similar words and concepts are used, but that is not what is being communicated. Let's break...
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    The Five Points of Calvinism

    The dead in Christ rise first, then the rest. Also, not everyone believes the beast and false prophet are individual people. :)
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    The Five Points of Calvinism

    I don't see any indication that he ever genuinely believed, but all references in Scripture either indicate his internal desires, or his future betrayal. For instance: “Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?” He said this, not because he cared about the...
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    The Five Points of Calvinism

    On the contrary, this is spiritual according to Jesus. "And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven." Matthew 16:17 (ESV) That the revelation which leads to belief that Jesus truly is the Messiah...
  17. D

    The Five Points of Calvinism

    Well as early as John 6, we have Jesus referring to Judas as being a "devil," which would lead me to believe that he was never a true follower or believer and had not been given eternal life as was stated in John 17:2. Make sense? Do you believe that Judas as a genuine believer and fell away...
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    The Five Points of Calvinism

    I don't think that Judas shared in the gifts and Spiritual revelation that the others had received, which leads me to believe that he is not among the group that Jesus is referring to and praying for in John 17.
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    The Five Points of Calvinism

    I don't think Judas was some kind of puppet who was forced against his will to do these things. Yet, Jesus knew what was in him all along. The sovereignty of God particularly surrounding the events of the crucifixion is something to be noted. "for truly in this city there were gathered...
  20. D

    The Five Points of Calvinism

    I wouldn't say that, from a wholistic inspection of the words spoken about the group, who are said to belong to Father, as in they were genuine Jews, who are then given to the Son and that he should lose none of them but raise them up on the last day. Jesus certainly chose him though. "Jesus...
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