2 Thes 2.3 and 1 Tim 4.1

[MisterE]

Paul makes an unambiguous reference to the departure from the faith, the end times APOSTASIA. Here is the verse in question:

I Tim 4.1
ὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ῥητῶς λέγει ὅτι ἐν ὑστέροις καιροῖς ἀποστήσονταί τινες τῆς πίστεως, προσέχοντες πνεύμασιν πλάνοις καὶ διδασκαλίαις δαιμονίων...

Here we see that Paul uses the verb AFISTAMAI when referring to the APOSTASIA, the departure from the faith. So, when Paul wants to refer to the Tribulation, he uses the verb, not the noun, APOSTASIA.

Some claim that the word APOSTASIA in 2 Thes 2.3 refers to the departure from the faith, but elsewhere Paul uses the verb AFISTAMAI to talk about the Tribulation. Why did Paul use a different word when he had already used APOSTASIA to refer to the departure from the faith?

 

[RandyK]

Paul makes an unambiguous reference to the departure from the faith, the end times APOSTASIA. Here is the verse in question:

I Tim 4.1
ὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ῥητῶς λέγει ὅτι ἐν ὑστέροις καιροῖς ἀποστήσονταί τινες τῆς πίστεως, προσέχοντες πνεύμασιν πλάνοις καὶ διδασκαλίαις δαιμονίων...

Here we see that Paul uses the verb AFISTAMAI when referring to the APOSTASIA, the departure from the faith. So, when Paul wants to refer to the Tribulation, he uses the verb, not the noun, APOSTASIA.

Some claim that the word APOSTASIA in 2 Thes 2.3 refers to the departure from the faith, but elsewhere Paul uses the verb AFISTAMAI to talk about the Tribulation. Why did Paul use a different word when he had already used APOSTASIA to refer to the departure from the faith?

I'm more of a theology person than a biblical languages person, but your question seems pretty basic. "Afistamai" would refer very generally to any kind of departure from a location, whereas "apostasia" would refer to a "forsaking," as in forsaking a moral standard.

I don't think "afistamai" is attached to "the Tribulation" any more than "apostasia" is attached to the Antichrist. The particular word is chosen based on whether a general departure from a place is meant or a general abandonment of a standard is meant.

 

[MisterE]

I'm more of a theology person than a biblical languages person, but your question seems pretty basic. "Afistamai" would refer very generally to any kind of departure from a location, whereas "apostasia" would refer to a "forsaking," as in forsaking a moral standard.

I don't think "afistamai" is attached to "the Tribulation" any more than "apostasia" is attached to the Antichrist. The particular word is chosen based on whether a general departure from a place is meant or a general abandonment of a standard is meant.

What can't be done is to show that APOSTASIA means forsaking, rebellion, or falling away from the faith UNLESS it is so qualified in the context. Like Acts 21.21, Luke adds "from Moses." He adds that because the word itself does not denote revolt. Apostasia is used in contexts about apostasy, but all known uses of apostasia have qualifications as to what kind of apostasy is in use.

The cognate verb is almost exclusively used for a departure of some kind, often a physical departure. Some deny that a noun's meaning is informed by the verb. I simply reject that argument as it is a known "law" of semantics,.

 

[RandyK]

What can't be done is to show that APOSTASIA means forsaking, rebellion, or falling away from the faith UNLESS it is so qualified in the context. Like Acts 21.21, Luke adds "from Moses." He adds that because the word itself does not denote revolt. Apostasia is used in contexts about apostasy, but all known uses of apostasia have qualifications as to what kind of apostasy is in use.

The cognate verb is almost exclusively used for a departure of some kind, often a physical departure. Some deny that a noun's meaning is informed by the verb. I simply reject that argument as it is a known "law" of semantics,.

Let me clear about one thing. It is an interpretive fallacy to declare a word as attached, necessarily, to a particular meaning if it is so general as to require a context.

This would, of course, mean that technical words are exempted from this. Technical words by definition imply that they have a particular attachment when otherwise the word is more general. So a "forsaking" does not have to refer to a departure from the faith since it is not being applied as a technical applicaation.

Our word "apostasy" also does not have a technical application by necessity and does not have to refer to the "Antichristian Apostasy." But it is the proper word to use for the Antichristian Apostasy because it is a reference, generally, to a forsaking of set standards, whatever those standards may be.

Since "apostasia" is in fact being used in the context of Antichrist's appearance, it does refer to a forsaking of proper worship of God. This is made doubly clear when Paul says that the Man of Sin sits in the temple of God proclaming himself as God. He is forsaking the proper worship of God in God's heavenly temple by proclaiming himself God.

 

[for_his_glory]

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils

Both of these verses speak about falling away from faith as many are being deceived into believing the lies of Satan. Whether it be Apostasia or Afistamai they both mean to abandon faith and the rejection of Christ Jesus.

 

[MisterE]

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils

Both of these verses speak about falling away from faith as many are being deceived into believing the lies of Satan. Whether it be Apostasia or Afistamai they both mean to abandon faith and the rejection of Christ Jesus.

Not exactly. 2 Thes 2.3 is about the Rapture, not the departing from the faith. Since you are not defending the post trib here but asserting it, there is not much more I can say. I would welcome your attempt to demonstrate that APOSTASIA can NOT mean a "departure" anywhere at any time, and therefore, is MUST mean a falling away from the faith. Bear in mind that I can quote any Lexicon that defines APOSTASIA as departure as one of its meanings.

 

[follower]

I can quote any Lexicon

BRG
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
CSB
Do not trust in nobles, in a son of man, who cannot save.
CEB
Don’t trust leaders; don’t trust any human beings— there’s no saving help with them!
CJB
Don’t put your trust in princes or in mortals, who cannot help.
CEV
You can't depend on anyone, not even a great leader.

 

[MisterE]

BRG
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
CSB
Do not trust in nobles, in a son of man, who cannot save.
CEB
Don’t trust leaders; don’t trust any human beings— there’s no saving help with them!
CJB
Don’t put your trust in princes or in mortals, who cannot help.
CEV
You can't depend on anyone, not even a great leader.

follower,

A lexicon is a dictionary. I have no idea what you are doing.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Paul makes an unambiguous reference to the departure from the faith, the end times APOSTASIA. Here is the verse in question:

I Tim 4.1
ὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ῥητῶς λέγει ὅτι ἐν ὑστέροις καιροῖς ἀποστήσονταί τινες τῆς πίστεως, προσέχοντες πνεύμασιν πλάνοις καὶ διδασκαλίαις δαιμονίων...

Here we see that Paul uses the verb AFISTAMAI when referring to the APOSTASIA, the departure from the faith. So, when Paul wants to refer to the Tribulation, he uses the verb, not the noun, APOSTASIA.

Some claim that the word APOSTASIA in 2 Thes 2.3 refers to the departure from the faith, but elsewhere Paul uses the verb AFISTAMAI to talk about the Tribulation. Why did Paul use a different word when he had already used APOSTASIA to refer to the departure from the faith?

I have never spoken with a Christian who has failed to clearly see the progressive falling away from the faith within denominations as well as the residual post-falling away apostasy remaining within the still standing dead carcass of the denomination today.
The Spirit clearly having ability to unmask any errant application of terms for the faithful