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A Christian antichrist or a Jewish False Messiah?

Is it possible that the future antichrist will be of Israeli descent?

  • Most likely Yes he will be a decendent of Israel

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Most likely No he will not be a decendent of Israel

    Votes: 2 100.0%
  • Total voters
    2
G

Georges

Guest
Just an opinion poll to get my fellow forumites thinking....

Does the Bible hint at the ancestry of the antichrist?

Can you use non Biblical sources to support Biblical concepts (ie Apocrphal, Targumic, Talmudic, or Christian commentaries)?

If so, select an option and opine...
 
From what I've seen, I believe he will come from the tribe of Dan. Check this:

Genesis 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.
Genesis 49:18 I have waited for thy salvation, O, YHWH.

I believe this rider is Messiah. I believe this prophetic passage spoken by Jacob through the Spirit is speaking of Israel during the Great Tribulation as they go through the birth pangs of Messiah.

This is why they wait for salvation to come (Yahshua), to deliver them. We also know the end-time anti-christ blasphemes the true Name of Yahweh and substitutes it for the "names of blasphemy".

Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Revelation 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against YHWH, to blaspheme his Name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Interesting, because we see a man from the tribe of Dan do this exact same thing in Leviticus 24:

Leviticus 24:10 And the son of an Israelitish woman, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the children of Israel: and this son of the Israelitish woman and a man of Israel strove together in the camp;
Leviticus 24:11 And the Israelitish woman's son blasphemed the name of YHWH, and cursed. And they brought him unto Moses: (and his mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan)

Of course, this man is stoned at the direct commandment of YHWH. The anti-christ is cast into the lake of fire.

Other than this, I have nothing else to offer. Haven't studied beyond this.
 
He will be a direct decendent of whatever the ticklish ears of the various nations require to believe so that they can wonder after him. The technology and abilities of the antiChrist will enable him to deceive all nations and religions with only the elect sealed from the lies.

Currently there are reports that the "messiah" (false messiah) can magically appear, and he can appear as caucasian, black, arabic, etc.

There was not an answer "all of the above" or I would have selected it.
 
He will be a politician not religious,

And according to Daniel he will comes from the part of the world the Muslims own, but it says he will not regard the God of his fathers, this dose not say Jehovah.

And Daniel 11;30 says he will have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Some one please show me the scripture that says that the Jews will think he is their messiah.
 
wavy said:
From what I've seen, I believe he will come from the tribe of Dan....

... Other than this, I have nothing else to offer. Haven't studied beyond this.
Click to expand...
Are Dan and Japheth related? I believe antichrist comes out of Japhethic lineage.

Ezek 38:2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,

Magog is the son of Japheth.

Gen 10:2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

The Japhethic tribe was known to be nomadic and was believed to have settled in the area of the Southern Germany/Ausrtain region.
 
Well, Vic, I can see what you are saying, but I do not agree. I could just as well say that Gomer (a male) mentioned in Genesis 10:2 was the wife of Hosea in Hosea 1:3.

I believe Ezekiel refers to the anti-messiah as "Gog", not Magog. Or does that have nothing to do with your point?

It may tie in together somehow, so I'm not saying you are just whacked out wrong. I could be for that matter. But I don't see it now. I will take a look at that though, if I get around to it. That's interesting.
 
Wavy,

Nice 1st post.

From what I've seen, I believe he will come from the tribe of Dan. Check this:

Genesis 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.
Genesis 49:18 I have waited for thy salvation, O, YHWH.

I believe this rider is Messiah. I believe this prophetic passage spoken by Jacob through the Spirit is speaking of Israel during the Great Tribulation as they go through the birth pangs of Messiah.
Click to expand...


I have seen the rider reference before....Also a connotation of the Sepent/Eve prophecy in Gen....the serpent bruises the heel.....same kind of language used. I think it is very neat that it is followed by the reference to "Salvation" (of course Jesus' name used here). Why is it mentioned in the passage? Coincidence? I don't think so.

Also, about Dan.....Several of the Early Christian fathers thought the False Messiah will come from Dan....

From the reference book "A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs" comes at least 2 Dan/False Messiah references.

Under the subject of "Dan", both Irenaeus and Hypoolytus make reference to Dan and the False Messiah.
 
wavy said:
I believe Ezekiel refers to the anti-messiah as "Gog", not Magog. Or does that have nothing to do with your point?
Click to expand...
Yes, it is relevant to my point. Many believe Gog is prophetic for antichrist, or false messiah. The verse mentions Gog is in "the land of Magog". If he is in the land of Magog, he's most likely related to Magog, who is offspring of Japheth, who is son of Noah. We know there were no others left after the Flood, so the lineage from Noah and Japheth to Magog is a pretty straight line.

Here is an interesting bit on tje Japhethic tribe by Ray Steadman:

excerpt
Japheth was promised enlargement. The Japhetic people are, in general, the peoples of India and Europe, the Indo-European stock, with which any demographer is familiar. It is largely from this family that we Americans come. It is most interesting that history has recorded their geographical enlargement. The entire Western hemisphere of our globe is settled by Japhetic peoples, and the Indians (Hindus) are of the same stock. But there is much to suggest in history that the enlargement that is promised here to Japheth is also intellectual. Historically, all the great philosophers are Japhetic. The Greeks, who began modern philosophy, are descendants of Japeheth, as we will see in the very next chapter, also the Hindus. The Greeks and the Hindus are the two truly great philosophic races of earth.
Click to expand...
http://www.pbc.org/dp/stedman/genesis/0330.html

Here's a site that briefly explores some Gog/Magog war theories.

http://www.contenderministries.org/prop ... gmagog.php

excerpt
5. Indo-European Theory: Gog and Magog include the nations descending from Japheth: Russia, the Caucasus(Turkey), Iraq, and the Islamic republics of Central Asia. The coalition is an alliance of Arab nations, Muslim republics, Georgia, southern Russia and the Black sea area.
Click to expand...

It may tie in together somehow, so I'm not saying you are just whacked out wrong. I could be for that matter. But I don't see it now. I will take a look at that though, if I get around to it. That's interesting.
Click to expand...
I think it's interesting and I'm not crazy. :silly:
 
A couple of interesting items....


Dan was usually the first of the Tribes to succumb to idol worship. Also, the tribe of Dan isn't included in the Tribal listing of the 144000.....Hmmm how interesting is that?
 
Georges said:
Dan was usually the first of the Tribes to succumb to idol worship. Also, the tribe of Dan isn't included in the Tribal listing of the 144000.....Hmmm how interesting is that?
Click to expand...

Yes, I noticed this too. Yoseph is substituted for Ephraim, though. That is because these terms are interchangeable, such as is used in Numbers chapter 1.

Levi is substituted for Dan, I believe. He wasn't numbered as having an inheritance among the other tribes in Numbers. But now that order (the order of Levi's priesthood) has been set aside. So I think Levi is included in the sealing this time in place of Dan.

I still think Dan will be redeemed, though. Then in the millenium, Yahshua is going to purify the sons of Levi according to Malachi 3:3 and others and once again Levi will becomes priests again. Dan will have his inheritance back.
 
wavy said:
Georges said:
Dan was usually the first of the Tribes to succumb to idol worship. Also, the tribe of Dan isn't included in the Tribal listing of the 144000.....Hmmm how interesting is that?
Click to expand...

Yes, I noticed this too. Yoseph is substituted for Ephraim, though. That is because these terms are interchangeable, such as is used in Numbers chapter 1.

Levi is substituted for Dan, I believe. He wasn't numbered as having an inheritance among the other tribes in Numbers. But now that order (the order of Levi's priesthood) has been set aside. So I think Levi is included in the sealing this time in place of Dan.

I still think Dan will be redeemed, though. Then in the millenium, Yahshua is going to purify the sons of Levi according to Malachi 3:3 and others and once again Levi will becomes priests again. Dan will have his inheritance back.
Click to expand...


Agreed.....
 
Georges said:
A couple of interesting items....


Dan was usually the first of the Tribes to succumb to idol worship. Also, the tribe of Dan isn't included in the Tribal listing of the 144000.....Hmmm how interesting is that?
Click to expand...
Interesting... I never traced Dan back. Seems he is from the line of Shem, son of Noah. I don't know much about the past whereabouts of Shem.

Be back. ;-)
 
JUDAH begat Phares,

Phares begat Esrom,

Esrom begat Aram,

Aram begat Aminadab,

Aminadab begat Nashon,

Nashon begat Salmon,

Salmon begat Boaz,

Boaz begat Obed,

Obed begat Jesse,

Jesse begat DAVID,

DAVID begat SOLOMON,

SOLOMON begat Rehoboam,

Rehboam begat Abijah,

Abijah begat Asa,

Asa begat Jehosaphat,

Jehosaphat begat Jehoram,

Jehoram begat Ahaziah,

Ahaziah begat Joash,

Joash begat Amaziah,

Amaziah begat Uzziah,

Uzziah begat Jotham,

Jotham begat Ahaz,

Ahaz begat Hezekiah,

Hezekiah begat Manasseh,

Manasseh begat Amon,

Amon begat Josiah,

Josiah begat ZEDEKIAH, (Blinded & Captive in Babylon, who was released)

ZEDEKIAH begat TEA TEPHI, (Ancestor of Irish & Scottish Kings)

TEA TEPHI begat Ugaine the Great,

Ugaine the Great begat Argus the Prolific,

Argus the Prolific begat Ferchard,

Ferchard begat Fergus I,

Fergus I begat Maine,

Maine begat Dornadil,

Dornadil begat Reuther,

Reuther begat Eders,

Eders begat Conaire the Great,

Conaire the Great begat Corbred I,

Corbred I begat Corbred II,

Corbred II begat Modha Lamha,

Modha Lamha begat Saraid Conaire II,

Saraid Conaire II begat Corbred Dalriada,

Corbred Dalraida begat Eochaidh,

Eochaidh begat Athirco,

Athirco begat Findachar,

Findachar begat Thrinklind,

Thrinklind begat Fincormach,

Fincormach begat Romaich,

Romaich begat Angus,

Angua begat Eochaidh,

Eochaidh begat Erch,

Erch begat Fergus the Great,

Fergus the Great begat Dongard,

Dongard begat Govran,

Govran begat Aydan,

Aydan begat Eugene,

Eugene begat Donald,

Donald begat Ethach,

Ethach begat Ethdre,

Ethdre begat Ethafind,

Ethafind begat Ethas,

Ethas begat Alpin,

Alpin begat Kenneth,

Kenneth begat Constantine,

Constantine begat Donald IV,

Donald IV begat Malcolm,

Malcolm begat Kenneth II,

Kenneth II begat Malcolm II,

Malcolm II begat Beatrix,

Beatrix begat Duncan,

Duncan begat Malcolm,

Malcolm begat David,

David begat Henry,

Henry begat David,

David begat Isobel,

Isobel begat Robert,

Robert begat Robert,

Robert begat Robert the Bruce,

Robert the Bruce begat Marjory,

Marjory begat Robert II,

Robert II begat Robert III,

Robert III begat James I,

James I begat James II,

James II begat James III,

James III begat James IV,

James IV begat James V,

James V begat Mary Queen of Scotts,

Mary Queen of Scotts begat James VI,

James VI begat Elizabeth,

Elizabeth begat Sophia,

Sophia begat George I,

George I begat George II,

George II begat Fredrick Prince of Wales,

Fredrick Prince of Wales begat George III,

George III begat Queen Victoria,

Queen Victoria begat King Edward VII,

King Edward VII begat King George V,

King George V begat King George VI,

King George VI begat Queen Elizabeth II,

Queen Elizabeth II begat Prince Charles of Wales
 
wavy said:
Well, Vic, I believe Shem's seed has been mixed into all nations.
Click to expand...
Gen 11:11 And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.




And no Geo, I didn't forget about Charles in charge. :-D
 
Vic said:
GRRRRRR! Who are the sons and daughters. :o
Click to expand...

Genesis 9:27 Elohim shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

Genesis 10:2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
Genesis 10:3 And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.
Genesis 10:4 And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.
Genesis 10:5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.


Japheth's seed mixed with Shem's and thus they became nations/gentiles in different lands. May be prophetic.
 
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