Bible Study A False Teaching about the Cross and Jesus being Crucified

[Ken123$]

Crucified and cross have the same definition in Concordances and I use interchangeably both terms in my explanations.
The false teaching is Jesus dying on the cross and this is called Him being crucified. A correct teaching is Jesus denied self IE crucified through dying and His physical dying is not being crucified but His denying self is being crucified and this is before time, while He was dying and through eternity.​

The New Testament shows Christ was crucified died and rose from the dead and, by Greek definition, He figuratively denied self for His death on the cross. IE the NT exclusively shows one-way He was crucified denying self which resulted in His death, resurrection and bringing His blood as a sacrificial offering to His father.

Also, the Old Testament shows His crucifixion was self-denial which is a true understanding of God’s will. Abraham believed God would raise Isaac from the dead and God the Father believed He would raise Jesus because of Abrahams work of faith. Then God could allow His son Jesus to die and will raise Him. This could not have happened until man (Abraham) denied self and gave his son by a work of faith. Therefore, the OT shows Jesus was crucified same as Abraham’s faith of self-denial. Both Jesus and Abraham denied-self which allowed death, first Abraham for his son then God for His Son, Abraham son’s actual physical death was stopped by God because there was no need for this to happen.

Basis for this teaching​

Preaching the cross or His crucifixion is preaching His death on the cross?

Preaching the cross is NOT preaching His death on the cross and scripture shows His cross, by Greek definition, is Him impaled on a wood stake and this seems to be an accurate understanding of preaching the cross. But further review of this scripture shows God’s understanding of what preaching the cross is. The cross is defined as a stake and figuratively self-denial per Greek definition. 1 Corinthians 1:18. By definition figurative language is new insight into a word. This new insight (Self-Denial) is God’s insight and is beyond the insight of being impaled on the cross. Figuratively, exposure to death, IE self-denial is to deny self and when we deny self He can live in us and we are following in His footsteps same as when He denied self unto death on the cross.

Example of usage of figuratively:

http://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples-of-figurative-language.html

Vocabulary.com figuratively/literally

http://www.vocabulary.com/articles/chooseyourwords/figuratively-literally/

The Greek definition of Deny in Matthew 16:24 when Jesus said let him deny is to lose one’s self-interest.

 

[Who Me]

The New Testament shows Christ was crucified died and rose from the dead

As you yourself have said the bible teaches that Jesus was crucified. Which makes the rest of your post pointless.
Jesus died inorder that he might pay the penalty for our sin, bear the punishment and shame that was due to us in himself.
It is Gods grace that we have the faith to believe in Jesus and be saved without needing any form of good works.

 

[Fastfredy0]

As you yourself have said the bible teaches that Jesus was crucified. Which makes the rest of your post pointless.

Agreed. The post was nearly incomprehensible.

 

[for_his_glory]

The false teaching is Jesus dying on the cross and this is called Him being crucified. A correct teaching is Jesus denied self IE crucified through dying and His physical dying is not being crucified but His denying self is being crucified and this is before time, while He was dying and through eternity.

These are the twisted teachings of Jehovah Witness, which will not go over very well in here as what they teach are a twisted word of God adding to and taking away from it.

Here is what you are being taught that comes against all truths of scripture.

JW do not believe in the Trinity. Instead, they follow a strict monotheism, in which: Jehovah is the Supreme Being. Jesus is the Son of God, a created being. Christ is believed to have originally existed in a pre-human state as the Archangel Michael. He later took human form as a man like any other person, except that he was sinless at birth and remained so throughout his earthly life. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ. They believe that after the crucifixion, Christ died and was resurrected as an invisible, non-material, glorious, spirit creature. They believe that Jesus appeared on earth after his resurrection in a special body that Jehovah created for him.

The Holy Spirit, they believe, is not a separate entity, but is simply a force: the method by which God interacts with the world.

They reject the traditional symbol of Christianity, the cross, as being of pagan origin. They translate the Greek word from the Christian Scriptures "stauros" as "torture stake", and believe that Jesus was crucified on a single upright wooden stake with no crossbeam. They view the cross as an Idol and wearing or displaying one is considered idol worship.

I pray you hang around here long enough to learn the truths of the Gospel of Christ.

 

[JLB]

Crucified and cross have the same definition in Concordances and I use interchangeably both terms in my explanations.
The false teaching is Jesus dying on the cross and this is called Him being crucified. A correct teaching is Jesus denied self IE crucified through dying and His physical dying is not being crucified but His denying self is being crucified and this is before time, while He was dying and through eternity.​

The New Testament shows Christ was crucified died and rose from the dead and, by Greek definition, He figuratively denied self for His death on the cross. IE the NT exclusively shows one-way He was crucified denying self which resulted in His death, resurrection and bringing His blood as a sacrificial offering to His father.

Also, the Old Testament shows His crucifixion was self-denial which is a true understanding of God’s will. Abraham believed God would raise Isaac from the dead and God the Father believed He would raise Jesus because of Abrahams work of faith. Then God could allow His son Jesus to die and will raise Him. This could not have happened until man (Abraham) denied self and gave his son by a work of faith. Therefore, the OT shows Jesus was crucified same as Abraham’s faith of self-denial. Both Jesus and Abraham denied-self which allowed death, first Abraham for his son then God for His Son, Abraham son’s actual physical death was stopped by God because there was no need for this to happen.

Basis for this teaching​

Preaching the cross or His crucifixion is preaching His death on the cross?

Preaching the cross is NOT preaching His death on the cross and scripture shows His cross, by Greek definition, is Him impaled on a wood stake and this seems to be an accurate understanding of preaching the cross. But further review of this scripture shows God’s understanding of what preaching the cross is. The cross is defined as a stake and figuratively self-denial per Greek definition. 1 Corinthians 1:18. By definition figurative language is new insight into a word. This new insight (Self-Denial) is God’s insight and is beyond the insight of being impaled on the cross. Figuratively, exposure to death, IE self-denial is to deny self and when we deny self He can live in us and we are following in His footsteps same as when He denied self unto death on the cross.

Example of usage of figuratively:

http://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples-of-figurative-language.html

Vocabulary.com figuratively/literally

http://www.vocabulary.com/articles/chooseyourwords/figuratively-literally/

The Greek definition of Deny in Matthew 16:24 when Jesus said let him deny is to lose one’s self-interest.

Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him. But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. John 19:31-34


Jesus Christ was crucified on the cross, for the sins of the world.






JLB

 

[Fastfredy0]

These are the twisted teachings of Jehovah Witness, which will not go over very well in here as what they teach are a twisted word of God adding to and taking away from it.

Oh, is that what that was. .... It was not a coherent presentation.
Aside: I think you broke forum rule 1.4: .... Do not state a negative opinion about a member's denomination, leaders, founders, or the veracity of a member's faith. (Exodus 20:16). Don't worry, I won't report you.

Interesting summary of their beliefs. Thx

 

[for_his_glory]

Oh, is that what that was. .... It was not a coherent presentation.
Aside: I think you broke forum rule 1.4: .... Do not state a negative opinion about a member's denomination, leaders, founders, or the veracity of a member's faith. (Exodus 20:16). Don't worry, I won't report you.

Interesting summary of their beliefs. Thx

No rule was broken as we are to call out false doctrines that come against the doctrines of Christ so others will not follow the lies of the devil. But, make absolutely sure their doctrines are false before you expose them. In this case I do know the doctrines of the JW to know they teach another gospel.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

 

[Ken123$]

As you yourself have said the bible teaches that Jesus was crucified. Which makes the rest of your post pointless.
Jesus died inorder that he might pay the penalty for our sin, bear the punishment and shame that was due to us in himself.
It is Gods grace that we have the faith to believe in Jesus and be saved without needing any form of good works.

He was crucified (or Cross) is thru self denial, very mush the point.
REF Greek definition:
1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Bible Explore.com, KJV W/ STRONGS BIBLE - 1 CORINTHIANS 1 http://www.godrules.net/library/kjvstrongs/kjvstrongs1cor1.htm

1:18 For 1063 the preaching 3056 of the cross 4716 is 2076 5748 to them 3303 that perish 622 5730 foolishness 3472; but 1161 unto us 2254 which are saved 4982 5746 it is 2076 5748 the power 1411 of God 2316.

Word: stauroj, Pronounce: stow-ros' , Strongs Number: G4716. Orig: from the base of 2476; a stake or post (as set upright), i.e. (specially), a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital punishment); figuratively, exposure to death, i.e. self-denial; by implication, the atonement of Christ:--cross. G2476. Use: TDNT-7:572,1071 Noun Masculine, Heb Strong

 

[Ken123$]

These are the twisted teachings of Jehovah Witness, which will not go over very well in here as what they teach are a twisted word of God adding to and taking away from it.

Here is what you are being taught that comes against all truths of scripture.

JW do not believe in the Trinity. Instead, they follow a strict monotheism, in which: Jehovah is the Supreme Being. Jesus is the Son of God, a created being. Christ is believed to have originally existed in a pre-human state as the Archangel Michael. He later took human form as a man like any other person, except that he was sinless at birth and remained so throughout his earthly life. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ. They believe that after the crucifixion, Christ died and was resurrected as an invisible, non-material, glorious, spirit creature. They believe that Jesus appeared on earth after his resurrection in a special body that Jehovah created for him.

The Holy Spirit, they believe, is not a separate entity, but is simply a force: the method by which God interacts with the world.

They reject the traditional symbol of Christianity, the cross, as being of pagan origin. They translate the Greek word from the Christian Scriptures "stauros" as "torture stake", and believe that Jesus was crucified on a single upright wooden stake with no crossbeam. They view the cross as an Idol and wearing or displaying one is considered idol worship.

I pray you hang around here long enough to learn the truths of the Gospel of Christ.

Is crucified being self denial a JW teaching? Please share a link.

 

[Ken123$]

Agreed. The post was nearly incomprehensible.

Please read it again and below is a better written understanding:

Crucified and cross have the same definition in major Concordances and I use interchangeably both terms in my explanations.

The meat of the Word is Jesus denied self before the foundation of the world, defined as crucified, and then He died on the cross but His physical dying isn’t crucified, IE during His dying He denied self which is non-physical and defined as crucification and for eternity He denies self, also Christians should deny self for eternity and is their crucification.

The New Testament shows Christ was crucified died and rose from the dead and, by Greek definition, He figuratively denied self for His death on the cross. IE the NT exclusively shows one-way He was crucified denying self which resulted in His death, resurrection and bringing His blood as a sacrificial offering to His father.

Also, the Old Testament shows His crucifixion was self-denial which is a true understanding of God’s will. Abraham believed God would raise Isaac from the dead and God the Father believed He would raise Jesus because of Abrahams work of faith. Then God allowed His son Jesus to die and will raise Him. This could did not happened until man (Abraham) denied self and gave his son by a work of faith. Therefore, the OT shows Jesus was crucified same as Abraham’s faith of self-denial. Both Jesus and Abraham denied-self which allowed death, first Abraham for his son then God for His Son, Abraham son’s actual physical death was stopped by God because there was no need for this to happen.

Basis for this teaching​

Preaching the cross or His crusification is preaching His death on the cross?

Preaching the cross isn’t preaching His death on the cross and scripture shows His cross, by Greek definition, is Him impaled on a wood stake and this seems to be an accurate understanding of preaching the cross. But further review of this scripture shows God’s understanding of what preaching the cross is. The cross is defined as a stake and figuratively self-denial per Greek definition. 1 Corinthians 1:18. By definition figurative language is new insight into a word. This new insight (Self-Denial) is God’s insight and is beyond the insight of being impaled on the cross. Figuratively, exposure to death, IE self-denial is to deny self and when we deny self He can live in us and we are following in His footsteps same as when He denied self unto death on the cross.

Example of usage of figuratively:
http://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples-of-figurative-language.html
Vocabulary.com figuratively/literally
http://www.vocabulary.com/articles/chooseyourwords/figuratively-literally/
The Greek definition of Deny in Matthew 16:24 when Jesus said let him deny is to lose one’s self-interest.
REF Greek definition:

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Bible Explore.com, KJV W/ STRONGS BIBLE - 1 CORINTHIANS 1 http://www.godrules.net/library/kjvstrongs/kjvstrongs1cor1.htm
1:18 For 1063 the preaching 3056 of the cross 4716 is 2076 5748 to them 3303 that perish 622 5730 foolishness 3472; but 1161 unto us 2254 which are saved 4982 5746 it is 2076 5748 the power 1411 of God 2316.

Word: stauroj, Pronounce: stow-ros' , Strongs Number: G4716. Orig: from the base of 2476; a stake or post (as set upright), i.e. (specially), a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital punishment); figuratively, exposure to death, i.e. self-denial; by implication, the atonement of Christ:--cross. G2476. Use: TDNT-7:572,1071 Noun Masculine, Heb Strong

 

[Who Me]

Crucified and cross have the same definition in Concordances and I use interchangeably both terms in my explanations.
The false teaching is Jesus dying on the cross and this is called Him being crucified. A correct teaching is Jesus denied self IE crucified through dying and His physical dying is not being crucified but His denying self is being crucified and this is before time, while He was dying and through eternity.​

As you say, crucifiction and cross are the same. making your JW based claim of a stake being used to be meaningless.

The other sentance I've copied is again nonsence.

On the cross Jesus physically suffered and died. He ceased to live, all brain and body functions stoped.
Jesus died.
On the third day he came to life, supernaturally and left the tomb.
The stone was rolled away to let the disciples in.

Yes Jesus willingly went to the cross.
Yes he denied himself, but denying oneself is Not death.

 

[Who Me]

He was crucified (or Cross) is thru self denial, very mush the point.

As the JW themselves admit Jesus died on a cross. see:-
"In 1921 they published the book The Harp of God, which has the subtitle 'Proof Conclusive that Millions now Living will Never Die'. By the time of the 1925 edition they had printed more than two million copies (precisely 2,327,000, according to the first page). On page 114 of this book there is a picture (see right), which occupies the whole page, of Christ being crucified on a cross, with the sign written by Pontius Pilate nailed above his head."

As fot stratous meaning stake, yes prior to the roman empire it did, but as greek was one of the administative languages they had to use a word to discribe crucifixtion and they used stratous.

 

[Ken123$]

As you say, crucifiction and cross are the same. making your JW based claim of a stake being used to be meaningless.

The other sentance I've copied is again nonsence.

On the cross Jesus physically suffered and died. He ceased to live, all brain and body functions stoped.
Jesus died.
On the third day he came to life, supernaturally and left the tomb.
The stone was rolled away to let the disciples in.

Yes Jesus willingly went to the cross.
Yes he denied himself, but denying oneself is Not death.

True, death was needed for salvation of mankind and by denying self He joyfully allowed His death.
I quoted Strong, is there a concern?

REF: Word: stauroj, Pronounce: stow-ros' , Strongs Number: G4716. Orig: from the base of 2476; a stake or post (as set upright), i.e. (specially), a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital punishment); figuratively, exposure to death, i.e. self-denial; by implication, the atonement of Christ:--cross. G2476. Use: TDNT-7:572,1071 Noun Masculine, Heb Strong

 

[Ken123$]

Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him. But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. John 19:31-34


Jesus Christ was crucified on the cross, for the sins of the world.






JLB

As scripture shows He died on the cross but not crucified on the cross.

Bible Explore.com, KJV W/ STRONGS BIBLE - 1 CORINTHIANS 1 http://www.godrules.net/library/kjvstrongs/kjvstrongs1cor1.htm
1:18 For 1063 the preaching 3056 of the cross 4716 is 2076 5748 to them 3303 that perish 622 5730 foolishness 3472; but 1161 unto us 2254 which are saved 4982 5746 it is 2076 5748 the power 1411 of God 2316.

Word: stauroj, Pronounce: stow-ros' , Strongs Number: G4716. Orig: from the base of 2476; a stake or post (as set upright), i.e. (specially), a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital punishment); figuratively, exposure to death, i.e. self-denial; by implication, the atonement of Christ:--cross. G2476. Use: TDNT-7:572,1071 Noun Masculine, Heb Strong

 

[Ken123$]

As the JW themselves admit Jesus died on a cross. see:-

As you yourself have said the bible teaches that Jesus was crucified. Which makes the rest of your post pointless.
Jesus died inorder that he might pay the penalty for our sin, bear the punishment and shame that was due to us in himself.
It is Gods grace that we have the faith to believe in Jesus and be saved without needing any form of good works.

These are the twisted teachings of Jehovah Witness, which will not go over very well in here as what they teach are a twisted word of God adding to and taking away from it.

Here is what you are being taught that comes against all truths of scripture.

JW do not believe in the Trinity. Instead, they follow a strict monotheism, in which: Jehovah is the Supreme Being. Jesus is the Son of God, a created being. Christ is believed to have originally existed in a pre-human state as the Archangel Michael. He later took human form as a man like any other person, except that he was sinless at birth and remained so throughout his earthly life. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ. They believe that after the crucifixion, Christ died and was resurrected as an invisible, non-material, glorious, spirit creature. They believe that Jesus appeared on earth after his resurrection in a special body that Jehovah created for him.

The Holy Spirit, they believe, is not a separate entity, but is simply a force: the method by which God interacts with the world.

They reject the traditional symbol of Christianity, the cross, as being of pagan origin. They translate the Greek word from the Christian Scriptures "stauros" as "torture stake", and believe that Jesus was crucified on a single upright wooden stake with no crossbeam. They view the cross as an Idol and wearing or displaying one is considered idol worship.

I pray you hang around here long enough to learn the truths of the Gospel of Christ.

My teachings are Scriptural and Greek definitions. Why do you associate me with fake religions like JW?

 

[Ken123$]

As you yourself have said the bible teaches that Jesus was crucified. Which makes the rest of your post pointless.
Jesus died inorder that he might pay the penalty for our sin, bear the punishment and shame that was due to us in himself.
It is Gods grace that we have the faith to believe in Jesus and be saved without needing any form of good works.

Your comment about pointless needs further explanation.

 

[Ken123$]

These are the twisted teachings of Jehovah Witness, which will not go over very well in here as what they teach are a twisted word of God adding to and taking away from it.

Here is what you are being taught that comes against all truths of scripture.

JW do not believe in the Trinity. Instead, they follow a strict monotheism, in which: Jehovah is the Supreme Being. Jesus is the Son of God, a created being. Christ is believed to have originally existed in a pre-human state as the Archangel Michael. He later took human form as a man like any other person, except that he was sinless at birth and remained so throughout his earthly life. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ. They believe that after the crucifixion, Christ died and was resurrected as an invisible, non-material, glorious, spirit creature. They believe that Jesus appeared on earth after his resurrection in a special body that Jehovah created for him.

The Holy Spirit, they believe, is not a separate entity, but is simply a force: the method by which God interacts with the world.

They reject the traditional symbol of Christianity, the cross, as being of pagan origin. They translate the Greek word from the Christian Scriptures "stauros" as "torture stake", and believe that Jesus was crucified on a single upright wooden stake with no crossbeam. They view the cross as an Idol and wearing or displaying one is considered idol worship.

I pray you hang around here long enough to learn the truths of the Gospel of Christ.

The only twisted is your refusal to understand Scripture and instead teach Religious JW.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Puts Ken123$ on ignore

 

[jasonc]

as one who was raised in the kingdom hall.no,the tract society teaches died on the stake quoting early russel teachings isn't applicable .to then the cross is idolatry

 

[for_his_glory]

Is crucified being self denial a JW teaching? Please share a link.

JW reject the traditional symbol of Christianity, the cross, as being of pagan origin. They translate the Greek word from the Christian Scriptures "stauros" as "torture stake", and believe that Jesus was crucified on a single upright wooden stake with no crossbeam. They view the cross as an Idol and wearing or displaying one is considered idol worship.

This seems to be what you are teaching, but yet you are contradicting yourself as one moment you say Jesus was impaled on a stake, in which is how JW teach. Then you say Jesus was crucified on a cross, so which was it?

Your words, or I should say the copy and pasted words of the Governing body of the Watchtower: "Preaching the cross or His crucifixion is preaching His death on the cross?

Preaching the cross is NOT preaching His death on the cross and scripture shows His cross, by Greek definition, is Him impaled on a wood stake and this seems to be an accurate understanding of preaching the cross. But further review of this scripture shows God’s understanding of what preaching the cross is. The cross is defined as a stake and figuratively self-denial per Greek definition."