A message for all Sabbath breakers.....Owned!!

[Soma-Sight]

For all those that say I have not looked into the Church "history" on the fact of early Sabbath observance........

I must say that you have been OWNED!!!!

edited

 

[Soma-Sight]

1st Century Sabbath Observance
http://www.zordesign.co.nz/Livingword/century1-10.htm

excerpt...

INSTITUTION OF THE SABBATH
"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." Genesis 2:1-3

JESUS
"And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read." Luke 4:16

JESUS
"And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." Matthew 19:16,17

JESUS
"But pray ye that your flight be not in winter, neither on the Sabbath day." Matthew 24, 20.
Jesus asked his disciples to pray that in the flight from the doomed city of Jerusalem they would not have to flee on the Sabbath day. This flight took place in 70 A.D. (40 years after the Cross).

HIS FOLLOWERS
"And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments and rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment." Luke 23:56.

PAUL
"And Paul, as his manner was went in unto them, and three Sabbath days reasoned with them out of the Scriptures" Acts 17:2

PAUL AND GENTILES
"And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. And the next Sabbath came almost the whole city together to hear the Word of God." Acts 13:42, 44.
Here we find Gentiles in a Gentile city gathering on the Sabbath. It was not a synagogue meeting in verse 44, for it says almost the whole city came together, verse 42 says they asked to hear the message the "next Sabbath."
And note this point: The Bible does not say it is the "old Jewish Sabbath that was passed away," but the Spirit of God, writing the Book of Acts some 30 years after the Crucifixion, calls it "the next Sabbath."

JOHN
"I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day." Rev.1:10 (Mark 2:28, Isa.58:13, Ex.20:10, Clearly show the Sabbath to be the Lord's day).

JOSEPHUS
"There is not any city of the Grecians, nor any of the Barbarians, nor any nation whatsoever, whither our custom of resting on the seventh day hath not come!" M'Clatchie, "Notes and Queries on China and Japan" (edited by Dennys), Vol 4, Nos 7, 8, p.100.

PHILO
Declares the seventh day to be a festival, not of this or of that city, but of the universe. M'Clatchie, "Notes and Queries," Vol. 4, 99

[note from Mod... PLEASE keep posts down to a respectable length... I have better thing to do with my time]

 

[Soma-Sight]

SABBATH FROM THE 11TH - 20TH CENTURIES
http://www.zordesign.co.nz/Livingword/century11-20.htm

excerpt...

11th Century Sabbath Observance

SCOTLAND
They held that Saturday was properly the Sabbath on which they abstained from work. "Celtic Scotland," Vol. 2, p. 350

SCOTLAND
"They worked on Sunday, but kept Saturday in a sabbatical manner...These things Margaret abolished." A History of Scotland from the Roman Occupation," Vol.1, p. 96.

SCOTLAND
"It was another custom of theirs to neglect the reverence due to the Lord's day, by devoting themselves to every kind of worldly business upon it, just as they did upon other days. That this was contrary to the law, she (Queen Margaret) proved to them as well by reason as by authority. 'Let us venerate the Lord's day,' said she, 'because of the resurrection of our Lord, which happened upon that day, and let us no longer do servile works upon it; bearing in mind that upon this day we were redeemed from the slavery of the devil. The blessed Pope Gregory affirms the same.'" Life of Saint Margaret, Turgot, p. 49 (British Museum Library)

SCOTLAND
(Historian Skene commenting upon the work of Queen Margaret) "Her next point was that they did not duly reverence the Lord's day, but in this latter instance they seemed to have followed a custom of which we find traces in the early Church of Ireland, by which they held Saturday to be the Sabbath on which they rested from all their labours." Skene, "Celtic Scotland," Vol.2, p. 349

SCOTLAND AND IRELAND
"T. Ratcliffe Barnett, in his book on the fervent Catholic queen of Scotland who in 1060 was first to attempt the ruin of Columba's brethren, writes: 'In this matter the Scots had perhaps kept up the traditional usage of the ancient Irish Church which observed Saturday instead of Sunday as the day of rest.'" Barnett, "Margaret of Scotland: Queen and Saint," p.97

COUNCIL OF CLERMONT
"During the first crusade, Pope Urban II decreed at the council of Clermont (A.D.1095) that the Sabbath be set aside in honour of the Virgin Mary." History of the Sabbath, p.672

CONSTANTINOPLE
"Because you observe the Sabbath with the Jews and the Lord's Day with us, you seem to imitate with such observance the sect of Nazarenes." Migne, "Patrologia Latina," Vol. 145, p.506; also Hergenroether, "Photius," Vol. 3, p.746. (The Nazarenes were a Christian denomination.)

GREEK CHURCH
"The observance of Saturday is, as everyone knows, the subject of a bitter dispute between the Greeks and the Latins." Neale, "A History of the Holy Eastern Church," Vol 1, p. 731. (Referring to the separation of the Greek Church from the Latin in 1054)

[note from Mod... GGGGRRRRR. The next time the whole thread goes in the can]

 

[Soma-Sight]

http://www.zordesign.co.nz/Livingword/century1-10.htm

 

[Heidi]

I guess I'm not interested in what people did for centuries. Many people called the pope their Holy Father and said that Mary was a virgin all of her life for centuries also. What interests me is what the bible and Jesus say about the Sabbath.

Jesus's remark about the Sabbath was to the Jews who either rest from God's work on the Sabbth or rest from their ungodly work during the week. Since the basis of Judaism is obeying they law, they're sunk if they have to move on the Sabbath. But this is not so for Christians because we have been cleansed and purified by Christ's death...at least those who have accepted this have been. Jesus did not rest from God's work on one day of the week nor did he rest from ungodly work on one day of the week either, nor does he call us to do either one.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Sabbathrest.net could have saved themselves the trouble and asked us in the East why it is we still observe the Sabbath, and what it means in the light of the NEW Covenant.

BTW
The above sources mischaracterize the dispute between Rome and the Eastern churches. While it is true that we continue to observe the Sabbath (AND The Lord's Day, which is the first day of the week), but the objects of our dispute centered around Papal supremacy and the filioque clause the West added to the symbol of faith (Nicene Creed)

Those who insist on dwelling as partial Jews, insisting on a righteousness that comes from Sabbath observance, yet failing to keep the whole Law, as observant Jews, are, in my humble estimation, owned- or should I say pwned- by their own tunnel vision.

 

[aiki]

Mark 2:27
Colossians 2:16
Romans 14:6

In Christ, Aiki. :D

 

[Jay T]

Sabbathrest.net could have saved themselves the trouble and asked us in the East why it is we still observe the Sabbath, and what it means in the light of the NEW Covenant.

Soma-sight did a GREAT job !!!

Those who keep the 7th day Sabbath understand the New Covenant completely:


Hebrews 8:10 " For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people"

20:20 ""And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Hi Jay T:
Not to be argumentative, but Soma Sight simply copy/pasted a lengthy treatise from another site, uncredited. This is, I believe, a TOS violation- but you, being a moderator, would know that better than I.

Regardless, lengthy, uncredited, copy/paste posts are generally bad form, for they constitute a polished form of spam.

Regarding the content: What was established is that some Christians have kept the Sabbath throughout the NT period. We ancient apostolic Christians knew that all along-didn't take some Johnny-come-lately American religious movement to tell us that.
:
Essentially none of those who kept the Sabbath up until 1850 did so to the exclusion of Sunday worship.

As a Greek Orthodox Christian, I keep every Sabbaton and worship on Kyriaki, as have my ancestors the Eastern Christians from the very first. We do not keep the Sabbath as a solemn feast- it is a feast, a feast of rest and worship.

Our day of solemnity is Friday, when the Lord paid the debt of all. You see, everything in Christian worship should be kept and understood through the Lord's Passion, Death, and Resurrection.

Glory to your Resurrection, O Christ.

Iakovos

 

[Heidi]

So what are you resting from on the Sabbath, Jay T? Ungodly work during the week or Godly work during the week? :o If it's the former, where does the NT tell us to be ungodly all week long and take one day off from it? if it's the latter, where does the NT tell us to take any day off from Godly work? Jesus didn't, which is exactly how he showed us what the Sabbath actually means.

 

[Jay T]

Hi Jay T:
Not to be argumentative, but Soma Sight simply copy/pasted a lengthy treatise from another site, uncredited. This is, I believe, a TOS violation- but you, being a moderator, would know that better than I.

Soma-sight did her homework. She was not content to just sit back and let others tell her what she should believe. She went out and investigated for herself, to learn what was the truth.

Regarding the content: What was established is that some Christians have kept the Sabbath throughout the NT period.

Yes, God has always had people who wanted to follow the Bible, and the Bible only.

As a Greek Orthodox Christian, I keep every Sabbaton and worship on Kyriaki, as have my ancestors the Eastern Christians from the very first. We do not keep the Sabbath as a solemn feast- it is a feast, a feast of rest and worship.

I read nothing...in the 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) about any feasts...do you ?

BUT....I do know God made the 7th day Sabbath as the [sign] of a relationship between Himself and His people.....



Ezekiel 20:20 "And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God".

 

[Heidi]

Hebrews 4:1-9:

A Sabbath-rest for the people of God

"Therefore,, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard it did not combine it with faith. Now we who have entered that rest, just as God said, 'So I declared on oath in my anger. 'They shall never enter my rest.'

"And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: 'And on the seventh day God rested from all his work.' And again in that passage above he says, 'They shall never enter my rest.'

"It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them and did not go in because of their disobedience. Therefore, God set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before: "Today if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.'

"For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken about a another day. There remains then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his."

The Sabbath is not a day of the week! It is Today. And notice how Today is capitalized. Today is when God poured out his Grace onto all people with His Holy Spirit. And those who enter that rest by coming to Jesus for rest instead of our own works to gain salvation, have entered the Sabbath rest from God!

But those who persist in interpreting the Sabbath the way the jews do are still under OT law instead of Grace. Paul says of those; "but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not combine it with faith."

 

[Soma-Sight]

Notice Hebrews 4:9 "There remains therefore a rest to the people of God." In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for "rest" is katapausin. It means "rest." But in verse 9, the Greek word for "rest" is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word-Sabbat, which means "the Sabbath"-combined with a Greek suffix-ismos, which means "a keeping of" or "a doing of." Put together, sabbatismo means "a keeping of the Sabbath." When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read,

"There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God."

 

[Heidi]

Your interpretation completely contradicts the rest of that passage! Completely. "God again set a certain day, Today " as being the Sabbath rest.

In addition, what are you doing that is any different than what the Jews do? nothing! Yet Paul tells us in Hebrews 4:2, "But the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard it didn't combine it with faith." Therefore, you are doing what Jesus says about the Jews; "Their teachings are but rules taught by men." The NIV translators see the contradiction in that interpretation, but you do not.

And so far, not one person has answered this question; "What are you resting from on the Sabbath? Ungodly work during the week or Godly work during the week? Since the bible does not tell us to do ungodly work all week long and only rest from it one one day, nor does it tell us to rest from Godly work on any day, then your understanding of the Sabbth contradicts everything the bible says. Again, the Sabbath cannot mean a day of the week at all!

So if you are truly interested in keeping the Sabbath, then I suggest you heed the words in Hewbrews 4:1-9. I also suggest you keep from the legalism of the Jews because you are now under the new convenant, not the old.

 

[Jay T]

The Sabbath is not a day of the week!

I personally believe what the Bible says: Genesis 2:2 "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made".

Exodus " 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy".

20:9 "Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work"

20:10 "But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God........

[in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:
20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it".
Psalms 111:7 "The works of his hands [are] verity and judgment; all his commandments [are] sure.
111:8 They stand fast for ever and ever, [and are] done in truth and uprightness".
Luke 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say ?"

 

[Orthodox Christian]

[quote="Orthodox Christian":ad353]Hi Jay T:
Not to be argumentative, but Soma Sight simply copy/pasted a lengthy treatise from another site, uncredited. This is, I believe, a TOS violation- but you, being a moderator, would know that better than I.

Soma-sight did her homework. She was not content to just sit back and let others tell her what she should believe. She went out and investigated for herself, to learn what was the truth.

Regarding the content: What was established is that some Christians have kept the Sabbath throughout the NT period.

Yes, God has always had people who wanted to follow the Bible, and the Bible only.

As a Greek Orthodox Christian, I keep every Sabbaton and worship on Kyriaki, as have my ancestors the Eastern Christians from the very first. We do not keep the Sabbath as a solemn feast- it is a feast, a feast of rest and worship.

I read nothing...in the 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) about any feasts...do you ?

BUT....I do know God made the 7th day Sabbath as the [sign] of a relationship between Himself and His people.....



Ezekiel 20:20 "And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God". [/quote:ad353]

You seem to have missed this part

You see, everything in Christian worship should be kept and understood through the Lord's Passion, Death, and Resurrection.

Therefore, the Sabbath is not what it was. Those who kept the Sabbath were not able to enter His rest (Heb 3:18-19). We are able to do so. The Sabbath is now a memorial of His burial, which to us is a celebration- for as He entered rest, as the Lord of the Sabbath, we are then allowed, by faith, to enter in.

You do not see a feast in Exodus because you have closed your eyes to it. The commandment was given not let any of the manna remain unto the morning- therefore, they had to eat all of the manna on the Sabbath. Likewise, at end of Passover, they were to eat the WHOLE LAMB.

There are three meals proscribed on Shabbat, ergo, it is a day of feasting.

But what I know of such things? Christ has risen from the dead, and everything in the universe revolves around that simple truth for me.

 

[Jay T]

[There are three meals proscribed on Shabbat, ergo, it is a day of feasting.

But what I know of such things? Christ has risen from the dead, and everything in the universe revolves around that simple truth for me.

WRONG !

There is no feasts mentioned, on the 7th day Sabbath, which is the 4th commandment, which God specificially wrote HIMSELF...with HIS very own finger...\
Exodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy".

20:9 "Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work"

20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:
20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it".


Did you see any mention of anything, to do with food ?
Drink ?

 

[Heidi]

You still interpret the Sabbath day like the Jews do, Jay. So you are still under the old convenant, not the new one that Christians are under. Hebrews 4:7, "Therefore, God set a certain day calling it Today..."Hebrews 4:4-3, "And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. For somewhere he has spoken about the svenethn day in these words; "And on the seventh day he rested from all his work."

The passage above makes it crystal clear that after the seventh day, God did no more work forever. He rested forever because his work was finished. And that's what the Sabbath rest means. Hebrews 4:9, "There remains , then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters that rest rests from his own work just as God did from his." That means the people of God rest from their own work forever just as God rests from his work forever. The Sabbath is Jesus Christ our Lord who gives us rest forever. It is not a day of the week like the Jews still think it is. Ever since Jesus healed on the Sabbath, he showed us what the Sabbath truly means. Since the Jews think it means not lifting a finger on one day of the week, they thought Jesus broke the Sabbath. But they couldn't have been further from the truth. ;-)

 

[Servant_2000]

[quote="Orthodox Christian":79151][There are three meals proscribed on Shabbat, ergo, it is a day of feasting.

But what I know of such things? Christ has risen from the dead, and everything in the universe revolves around that simple truth for me.

WRONG !

There is no feasts mentioned, on the 7th day Sabbath, which is the 4th commandment, which God specificially wrote HIMSELF...with HIS very own finger...\
Exodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy".

20:9 "Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work"

20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:
20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it". [/quote:79151]

Can you answer me or us these questions, Jay T?

1.Only the old covenant says, Remember the Sabbath. The new covenant never does. But the old covenant also says, Be circumcised. Why?

2. Jesus broke the Sabbath and commanded others to do so. Why?

3. The holy record says only God rested on the seventh day of creation week. There is no record anywhere in Scripture that Adam ever did. Why?

Jay T, by failing to respond you risk losing your world-class title: Defender of the SDA Faith!


You also risk losing your title: Chief Defender of the SDA Faith on 123 Christian Forums.

 

[Heidi]

The SDA is simply wrong. It relies on the old covenant not the new one. Jesus fulfilled all the OT laws for us. Now all we have to do is come to him for rest. "In repentance and rest is your salvation." But the Jews and people who call themselves christians but have not entered God's rest by receiving his Holy spirit are still under the old covenant. "By their fruits you will know them."