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A thief in the night?

TOG

TOG

Member
I just switched to a local TV station a while ago to see what was on. There was a program just starting, so I watched it for a while. This preacher (I didn't catch his name) was explaining the end times according to those who believe in a pre tribulation rapture. He said that, according to them, there would be signs, such as earthquakes, wars and rumors of wars. And then all the true Christians would be caught up in a rapture and be in Heaven for 7 years etc. We've all heard it before and I didn't notice anything different in the way he told it, until he asked a question: "But is that really what the Bible teaches?" Then quoted a partial verse from 1 Thessalonians and asked viewers to finish it - "The day of the Lord will come as a..." We all know how it goes - "a thief in the night". Next he asked about how thieves come. Do they give signs? Do they call and tell you "On the night of the full moon, when you see a red spot in your front lawn and receive a phone call but there's nobody on the other end, that's the night I'll come"? Of course not, he said. Thieves don't give signs, and there won't be any signs to tell us when Jesus is coming.

Now it was my turn to ask. Is that really what the Bible teaches? No signs at all? Even the passage he partially quoted doesn't say that.

Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief. (I Thess. 5:1-4 ESV)​

It looks to me like the day of the Lord will only come as a thief in the night upon unbelievers. We will be ready, because we will see the signs. Jesus himself said there would be signs for us to watch for.

From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. (Matt. 24:32-33 ESV)​

But what will these signs be? Some of them are to be found in the 24th chapter of Matthew's Gospel, but there's another one that most people don't notice in 1 Thessalonians. Paul makes a connection between what he calls "times and seasons" and knowing about the day of the Lord. I believe that this is a reference to the annual festivals found in the Books of Moses. All major prophecies have been fulfilled on a feast day, and I think it's safe to say that Jesus return would be a major fulfillment of prophecy.

What do the rest of you think?

The TOG​
 
Yes the Lord will come like a thief to nonbelievers, but pre-trib is false.
The second coming/the day of the Lord/rapture/first resurrection....
will come after the sixth seal is open in the middle of the seven year trib.
What do you see in common with the following...

Matt 24:29-31 / RAPTURE/FIRST RESURRECTION/TRIBULATION PERIOD - "Immediately after the tribulation of those days " 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' 30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Mark 13:24-27 / RAPTURE/FIRST RESURRECTION/TRIBULATION PERIOD - "But in those days, following that distress, " 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' 26 "At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

Luke 21:25-28 / RAPTURE/FIRST RESURRECTION/TRIBULATION PERIOD - "There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26 Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."

Isaiah 13:10 / RAPTURE/FIRST RESURRECTION/TRIBULATION PERIOD - For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not give their light; The sun will be darkened in its going forth, And the moon will not cause its light to shine.

Rev 6:12-17 / RAPTURE/FIRST RESURRECTION/TRIBULATION PERIOD/SIXTH SEAL - I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?"
 
TOG said:
I just switched to a local TV station a while ago to see what was on. There was a program just starting, so I watched it for a while. This preacher (I didn't catch his name) was explaining the end times according to those who believe in a pre tribulation rapture. He said that, according to them, there would be signs, such as earthquakes, wars and rumors of wars. And then all the true Christians would be caught up in a rapture and be in Heaven for 7 years etc. We've all heard it before and I didn't notice anything different in the way he told it, until he asked a question: "But is that really what the Bible teaches?" Then quoted a partial verse from 1 Thessalonians and asked viewers to finish it - "The day of the Lord will come as a..." We all know how it goes - "a thief in the night". Next he asked about how thieves come. Do they give signs? Do they call and tell you "On the night of the full moon, when you see a red spot in your front lawn and receive a phone call but there's nobody on the other end, that's the night I'll come"? Of course not, he said. Thieves don't give signs, and there won't be any signs to tell us when Jesus is coming.

Now it was my turn to ask. Is that really what the Bible teaches? No signs at all? Even the passage he partially quoted doesn't say that.

Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief. (I Thess. 5:1-4 ESV)​

It looks to me like the day of the Lord will only come as a thief in the night upon unbelievers. We will be ready, because we will see the signs. Jesus himself said there would be signs for us to watch for.
From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. (Matt. 24:32-33 ESV)​

But what will these signs be? Some of them are to be found in the 24th chapter of Matthew's Gospel, but there's another one that most people don't notice in 1 Thessalonians. Paul makes a connection between what he calls "times and seasons" and knowing about the day of the Lord. I believe that this is a reference to the annual festivals found in the Books of Moses. All major prophecies have been fulfilled on a feast day, and I think it's safe to say that Jesus return would be a major fulfillment of prophecy.

What do the rest of you think?

The TOG​
Click to expand...
Yes,the rapture will take the Church like a thief in the night because it will be very silent and swift.
 
Im not going to debate on the pre mid and post rapture issue again but what ppl fail to realize is that all the signs or almost all of them have already happened and are happening but no one pays any attention they dont realize we are living in a horror movie.
Even us christians have become blind and america has become like or perhaps worse than sodom. Look around u as go about your day, do u see ppl repenting? do u see ppl on the streets boldly proclaiming the gospel with power and authority? do u see ppl praying so fiercly with such passion their drenched in sweat?

god is furious at the abortion the gluttony the the murder the lying and decietful lips the judgemental and condemning hearts that all the ppl who reject are doing but woe to all of us who call ourselves christians because we do the same things without any fear of the lord. God is furious at the unbelievers and has his wrath set for them but imagine how severe his anger and wrath will be for us who call ourselves followers of God do the same things
the church has lost its love and fear for god we have watery faith not solid and that kind of faith is distasteful to God like water tastes when you leave it out for a long time. Everyone wants a new revelation dream or word from god about the end times and rapture but he already told us so why would he give us new revelation on these things when we wont listen to what he already told us?
he explained everything even went so far to do signs and wonders, it was us who wouldnt listen
 
TOG said:
I just switched to a local TV station a while ago to see what was on. There was a program just starting, so I watched it for a while. This preacher (I didn't catch his name) was explaining the end times according to those who believe in a pre tribulation rapture. He said that, according to them, there would be signs, such as earthquakes, wars and rumors of wars. And then all the true Christians would be caught up in a rapture and be in Heaven for 7 years etc. We've all heard it before and I didn't notice anything different in the way he told it, until he asked a question: "But is that really what the Bible teaches?" Then quoted a partial verse from 1 Thessalonians and asked viewers to finish it - "The day of the Lord will come as a..." We all know how it goes - "a thief in the night". Next he asked about how thieves come. Do they give signs? Do they call and tell you "On the night of the full moon, when you see a red spot in your front lawn and receive a phone call but there's nobody on the other end, that's the night I'll come"? Of course not, he said. Thieves don't give signs, and there won't be any signs to tell us when Jesus is coming.

Now it was my turn to ask. Is that really what the Bible teaches? No signs at all? Even the passage he partially quoted doesn't say that.

Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief. (I Thess. 5:1-4 ESV)​

It looks to me like the day of the Lord will only come as a thief in the night upon unbelievers. We will be ready, because we will see the signs. Jesus himself said there would be signs for us to watch for.
From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. (Matt. 24:32-33 ESV)​

But what will these signs be? Some of them are to be found in the 24th chapter of Matthew's Gospel, but there's another one that most people don't notice in 1 Thessalonians. Paul makes a connection between what he calls "times and seasons" and knowing about the day of the Lord. I believe that this is a reference to the annual festivals found in the Books of Moses. All major prophecies have been fulfilled on a feast day, and I think it's safe to say that Jesus return would be a major fulfillment of prophecy.

What do the rest of you think?

The TOG​
Click to expand...

Yes sir.

Great word.

He will come as a thief for them.

Thank God you are a you ( ewe) and nota them!
 
Blain said:
Im not going to debate on the pre mid and post rapture issue again but what ppl fail to realize is that all the signs or almost all of them have already happened and are happening but no one pays any attention they dont realize we are living in a horror movie.
Even us christians have become blind and america has become like or perhaps worse than sodom. Look around u as go about your day, do u see ppl repenting? do u see ppl on the streets boldly proclaiming the gospel with power and authority? do u see ppl praying so fiercly with such passion their drenched in sweat?

god is furious at the abortion the gluttony the the murder the lying and decietful lips the judgemental and condemning hearts that all the ppl who reject are doing but woe to all of us who call ourselves christians because we do the same things without any fear of the lord. God is furious at the unbelievers and has his wrath set for them but imagine how severe his anger and wrath will be for us who call ourselves followers of God do the same things
the church has lost its love and fear for god we have watery faith not solid and that kind of faith is distasteful to God like water tastes when you leave it out for a long time. Everyone wants a new revelation dream or word from god about the end times and rapture but he already told us so why would he give us new revelation on these things when we wont listen to what he already told us?
he explained everything even went so far to do signs and wonders, it was us who wouldnt listen
Click to expand...
I don't know what your postion is but what you said I like very much and it is true.Many have blinders on.
 
Kathi said:
Yes,the rapture will take the Church like a thief in the night because it will be very silent and swift.
Click to expand...

It will not come as a thief for the Church, but for the world as the word clearly says.

But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
 
JLB said:
It will not come as a thief for the Church, but for the world as the word clearly says.

But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
Click to expand...
What is the difference in the Church and the World?The Church is God's children,the believers.
 
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JLB said:
The pre-trib rapture doctrine is no where to be found in thx bible.
Click to expand...
actually it is in fact but not the actual word rapture just like the word bible is not in the bible. Have you ever read a bible story where gods ppl are left to face the wrath of God? look at moses how he saved them from his wrath by them putting lambs blood on their doors and noah how he and his family were saved in the ark and what about abrahams nephew and family when sodom was destroyed?
 
Blain said:
actually it is in fact but not the actual word rapture just like the word bible is not in the bible. Have you ever read a bible story where gods ppl are left to face the wrath of God? look at moses how he saved them from his wrath by them putting lambs blood on their doors and noah how he and his family were saved in the ark and what about abrahams nephew and family when sodom was destroyed?
Click to expand...

The Tribulation is not God's wrath.

Jesus Christ Himself will execute God's vengeance and wrath upon the wicked at His Coming.

14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Revelation 19:14-15

When He comes from heaven to earth He will Gather all of His people from the farthest part of Heaven to the farthest part of earth first.

Then He will execute God's wrath!


JLB
 
JLB said:
The Tribulation is not God's wrath.

Jesus Christ Himself will execute God's vengeance and wrath upon the wicked at His Coming.

14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Revelation 19:14-15

When He comes from heaven to earth He will Gather all of His people from the farthest part of Heaven to the farthest part of earth first.

Then He will execute God's wrath!

JLB
Click to expand...
lol u do realize you just described the pretrib belief right? And I quote-when he comes from heaven to earth to gather all his ppl from the farthest part of heaven to the farthest part of earth first the he will execute his wrath.
u did my work for me:b
 
Blain said:
lol u do realize you just described the pretrib belief right? And I quote-when he comes from heaven to earth to gather all his ppl from the farthest part of heaven to the farthest part of earth first the he will execute his wrath.
u did my work for me:b
Click to expand...

The pre-trib belief must be then, that Jesus comes before the tribulation to personally destroy the antichrist?

Edited Reba
 
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