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A Unraveling Christian Marriage

Lewis

Member
The Unraveling of a Christian Marriage: 3 Common Questions

http://www.crosswalk.com/family/mar...hristian-marriage-three-common-questions.html

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a very misleading article. It sounds like she explaining why she divorced her husband. She didn't. After she sought a legal separation he divorced her. If I got that right, why is she trying to explain getting a divorce she did not initiate?

IMO, the only really good counsel she gave was for an abused spouse to physically separate (not divorce) from an obstinate, uncooperative mate who is abusing them emotionally or physically, or living a dangerous life style (drinking, etc.). I think doing that is a good way to protect yourself, and take away the comfort zone of the other person which was making it easy for them not to make a decision about the marriage and do nothing to end the abuse. I think doing that will end the frustration and hopelessness of an extended stalemate one way or another (they'll either divorce you, or straighten up). But the danger may be in doing that too early out of impatience.
 
This article was on my mind late into the night... What a shame for such a far reaching so called ministry as Crosswalk to present this in an acceptable light.
When i see American 'Christians' seeking to dismantle the Word of God, with care and planning and for thought for self justification .I wonder what will be the out come when persecution hit our shores...
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a very misleading article. It sounds like she explaining why she divorced her husband. She didn't. After she sought a legal separation he divorced her. If I got that right, why is she trying to explain getting a divorce she did not initiate?
I think she is explaining why the divorce happened. If she had not gotten the legal separation he would not have filed for the divorce, at least not when he did.

IMO, the only really good counsel she gave was for an abused spouse to physically separate (not divorce) from an obstinate, uncooperative mate who is abusing them emotionally or physically, or living a dangerous life style (drinking, etc.). I think doing that is a good way to protect yourself, and take away the comfort zone of the other person which was making it easy for them not to make a decision about the marriage and do nothing to end the abuse. I think doing that will end the frustration and hopelessness of an extended stalemate one way or another (they'll either divorce you, or straighten up). But the danger may be in doing that too early out of impatience.
I agree in most circumstances.
 
This article was on my mind late into the night... What a shame for such a far reaching so called ministry as Crosswalk to present this in an acceptable light.
When i see American 'Christians' seeking to dismantle the Word of God, with care and planning and for thought for self justification .I wonder what will be the out come when persecution hit our shores...
The proverbial scattering of the sheep. And I think it is one day coming to the church.
 
I agree in most circumstances.
The danger being that you take that way out without having done all you yourself can and are supposed to do in a marriage.

And, if I may add, provoking someone to divorce you IMO makes you just as guilty as divorcing as your spouse is. (I'm not suggesting the woman in the article did that.)
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a very misleading article. It sounds like she explaining why she divorced her husband. She didn't. After she sought a legal separation he divorced her. If I got that right, why is she trying to explain getting a divorce she did not initiate?

I didn't get that impression. I got the impression that she saw separation, with no hope of reconciliation, as basically equivalent to a divorce in terms of how other people would view it.
Very few people really can look at a divorce or permanent separation from the outside as a totally no-fault situation.

When Jesus talked about divorce and remarriage being "adultery", he is including that aspect of public witness to the denigration of an ex-spouse. Sadly, Even a successful remarriage, is by it's very success -- would by it's contrast act also as condemnation of the previous failed marriage by showing at least one spouse was able to have good vows.

Just so you know -- I'm in the same boat as her ... actually ... including having prayed for death, rather than live through watching my kids hurt; although alcohol was not involved. My wife filed for divorce after I obtained permission from the church to stay separated, and it was in part because my filing for permission to remain separate automatically invoked the provision where she would have to face a pastor with me and explain what the problems actually were. She filed for civil divorce rather than allow that. ( As her mother was fond of saying: We're a matriarchal family... and her refusal to meet under a male pastor suggests strongly that she is her mother's daughter. )

IMO, the only really good counsel she gave was for an abused spouse to physically separate (not divorce) from an obstinate, uncooperative mate who is abusing them emotionally or physically, or living a dangerous life style (drinking, etc.). I think doing that is a good way to protect yourself, and take away the comfort zone of the other person which was making it easy for them not to make a decision about the marriage and do nothing to end the abuse. I think doing that will end the frustration and hopelessness of an extended stalemate one way or another (they'll either divorce you, or straighten up). But the danger may be in doing that too early out of impatience.

Yes. I agree. Although "taking away the comfort zone" also means bearing retaliation and watching kids used as pawns. Unless the legal separation includes financial insulation -- it's a dangerous position too.

In my case, it took eleven years to separate informally (just sleeping in another place) -- and then, we worked on the marriage with secular counselors for four years, and then when all that failed -- I finally put her to the test to see if she was after power, reconciliation, or simply was too mentally ill to deal with life by forcing a confrontation with pastors and an accounting about finances.

The result of taking all this time was that when the divorce happened due to the threat of facing the church, my wife who had been spending my social security income support and child support to pay the principal on the house; (not the interest which is legal, but the *principal* eg: 6/7 ths of the whole cost was paid by me.) allowed her to use the argument in court that I had been out of the house so long, that *she* paid for far more of it than I -- To the tune of $10's of thousands of dollars....and, yes, I lost even though my attorney did point out to the judge three times -- where she got the money to pay for the house.

It was a very bitter pill to swallow, taking care of the kids for her during the day while she worked -- and then having her deny me access to them for a month, and that alone gave her grounds to be legally able to file for divorce as sole custodian as if I had not done a thing for the kids, ever. She who owns the house, get's the kids.

In reading the article through a couple of times, though, I'll note that you're right -- the author really doesn't address the nitty gritty issues of what Jesus talks about in Matthew 5:32 or Paul in 1Corinthians 7, and Mark 10:9. etc. It's focus is more secular than not.

But I would offer this as a partial defense of her position: Pornea is a perversion of the marriage vow. For example: Fornication is not marriage precisely because it doesn't intend to keep a covenant relationship, Adultery is likewise not a marriage even if done at a temple and before God; (cf: King Herod & Herodas, as the question Jesus was asked was done maliciously in Herod's territory to try and get Jesus executed like John the Baptist...)

But, there is an issue -- that God can see who is saved, and likewise God can see who will fulfill their vows; even if we can not. It's not a certainty, in my mind, that God joins all Christians in name, just because they visit the pastor for a marriage ceremony and go through the motions of swearing their oaths as if in good faith with a spouse who perhaps lied before God and everyone, or was incapable of understanding what those words actually meant "I Do". Does God actually join a marriage where one of the spouses is radically perverted, or an intentional breaker of his law/pastors and ways ?

When Jesus says, "Moses allowed you divorce because of your hardness of heart." -- is that not really the core issue of the word, perverted ? Unwilling to obey God and instead follow their own desires / lusts ?

That's where I wonder what it means when the pastors of her church judged that the husband was not willing to follow through on what was reasonably asked of him in the name of God. For, if he swore his oath with one of those pastors as a witness, or at least that church, they are his witnesses before God in the first place.

When it came to the woman caught "in adultery" in the temple, did not Jesus say: "Where are the witnesses/accusers" ?
and again "Therefore, I do not accuse you either. Go and *sin* no more?"
 
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The danger being that you take that way out without having done all you yourself can and are supposed to do in a marriage.

And, if I may add, provoking someone to divorce you IMO makes you just as guilty as divorcing as your spouse is. (I'm not suggesting the woman in the article did that.)
I agree.
 
This article was on my mind late into the night... What a shame for such a far reaching so called ministry as Crosswalk to present this in an acceptable light.
When i see American 'Christians' seeking to dismantle the Word of God, with care and planning and for thought for self justification .I wonder what will be the out come when persecution hit our shores...

"So do not pray for this people nor offer any plea or petition for them; do not plead with me, for I will not listen to you."
- Jeremiah 7:16

Persecution is already among us and it begins with us - even in God's house.

The nation is suffering from a famine, not of bread but of the Word of God. It is no longer preached in churches. I have visited many churches and nearly all are the same.

-Humanistic songs masquerading as hymns of praise and worship. They do not glorify God, their focus and their glory is man.
-They reiterate specific scripture as though it were a political slogan - if they speak of the Word of God at all.

Many do not preach the Bible, but choose instead to propagandize the universal understanding of a debauched and dying society. They fear to say that those who do not accept Christ are doomed to hell, that those who are effeminate will never see the Kingdom of God and that those who practice lies and violence and murder are sons of satan itself.

Not only are true Christians suffering, but they are being deprived of the spiritual sustenance God intended them to have and enjoy in life.

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA, HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.
- Shanghai curse August 1937

Read your daily newspaper. Watch your TV evening news. Are blessings being poured out upon America today or are we witness to one curse after another in increasing tempo and severity? How long will this nation continue in its false pride and without a penitent attitude toward God?

There will not be any divine blessings upon America again for a very long time.
Watch and learn, pilgrim.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
 
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IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA, HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.
- Shanghai curse August 1937

hmmm.... I think I know at least 10 devout Christians.
Whether God decide to destroy us as a country or not, I don't think he needs to apologize to Sodom.

Genesis 18:32
Then he said, "May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?" He answered, "For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it."
 
hmmm.... I think I know at least 10 devout Christians.
Whether God decide to destroy us as a country or not, I don't think he needs to apologize to Sodom.

Genesis 18:32
Then he said, "May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?" He answered, "For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it."

"Christ does not vindicate nations. It is the sovereignty of God that is vindicated."
- Reinhold Neibuhr (American theologian)

Did you know there were 5, count 'em five cities in the valley of Sodom? All were widely separated by distance and all were destroyed.

Those cities were destroyed for the homosexual life style. Today the sins of humanity are much more severe. History teaches what each deserves.

God destroyed ancient Egypt because of their pride and arrogance against God, but He saved those who were called by His name - both their lives and their property. As they remained faithful to God, He remained faithful to them - yet the nation was destroyed.

There were more than ten righteous.

Ancient Israel was destroyed because of the sins of Molech and of changing their allegiance from the Lord of Hosts to a false god.
YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GOD BEFORE ME, SAYS THE LORD.
In America, the flag and the nation has subverted the position of God. In nearly every Protestant church the symbol of the cross is displayed in a manner which is inferior to the stars and stripes. Is it strange, then, that protestantism is in self-destruct mode? Every theologian and leader of merit has admitted to it.

Molech demanded the sacrifice of Israel's children. God destroyed them for killing far fewer children than America has done (53 million and counting). God did not spare the nation.

During the days of Napoleon, Europe was devastated because French citizens gave their support to a man who assumed ultimate power in the land. There were devout Christians in France and Europe at the time. As they remained faithful to God, He remained faithful to them - yet the nations were destroyed.

There were more than ten righteous men.

During the days of the American Civil War, both sides claimed that God was on their side and both sides paid a heavy price in terms of treasure and blood. Despite many devout Christians in the south, the nation was utterly laid waste. As they remained faithful to God, He remained faithful to them - yet the nation was destroyed.

There were more than ten righteous men.

During the days of the great world wars, especially in Asia and Europe of the 1930's and 1940's there were many devout Christians. Many more than ten. Despite this fact, the nations were destroyed - yet those who were faithful to Christ were saved out of the wreck.

There were more than ten righteous men.

As it was then, so it is now. God will not bless America because there are millions of devout Christians, yet He will judge the nation. Yes, even now judgment is rolling out upon us. Read the newspaper and watch the TV. Do you see blessings or judgments? There are so many now it boggles the mind - provided anyone's mind dares to consider what is happening to us.

Yet God will spare those and be faithful to those who are faithful to Him.

I do not pray for this nation. God has forbidden me to do so. BUT I am daily in prayer for all those who are called by His name. We shall be spared, but the nation will not. It is therefore of great importance that we all, who hold God most dear, that we put aside our pet sinful fantasies and habits and make ourselves ever more devoted to the Lord of Lords and the King of Kings. Allegiance to HIM, not a striped flag, is the only thing that will save us.

Yet the nation is lost. There will be NO blessings for America for a very long time. Watch and learn, pilgrim. God IS ABLE to save the just. He is just as able to judge wicked nations.

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA, HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

Seek peace with Christ while you may. As others seek survival in strange ways, the Christian is called to seek salvation in the name of Jesus.

"Do not fear the one than can kill the body, but rather fear Him who can kill both body and soul.
- Jesus

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

"The killing will continue until we learn to love our children more than war."
- Golda Meir
 
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There were more than ten righteous men.

And what's you point ? I never said God would spare us, I said: whether or not God chooses to destroy us as a nation he does not have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah. If he chooses not to, then his act of Mercy simply does not require an act of repentance for the act of the Justice he served on Sodom.

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA, HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.
- Shanghai curse August 1937

You seem to be speaking like an emotionally distraught woman, much like Job's wife. Why?

God will never have to apologize no matter what choice he makes regarding us, or the choices he made in 1937. I also do not understand your quote, as would you credit it as a "Shanghai curse ?!"; for what God do they serve who made this "prophecy" and why would you place the quote on the lips and give credit to a people who serve foreign Gods ?

For you really are placing yourself in the judgment seat of God, and If God, for reasons known only to himself, chooses not to condemn America; your testamony given here on the forums, will have already publicly broadcast that you condemn God's actions against Sodom and Gomorrah via. the Chineese.

I wonder... do you even have a clue about who the main players would be in world war III ??
 
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IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA, HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.
- Shanghai curse August 1937

Read your daily newspaper. Watch your TV evening news. Are blessings being poured out upon America today or are we witness to one curse after another in increasing tempo and severity? How long will this nation continue in its false pride and without a penitent attitude toward God?

Wow, Certainly you should not come to or be in America. Bad place. Move to Iran where they love Jesus and serve God.
Amazing.
 
And what's you point ?

I also do not understand your quote, as would you credit it as a "Shanghai curse ?!"; for what God do they serve who made this "prophecy" and why would you place the quote on the lips and give credit to a people who serve foreign Gods ?


-----------------------

Thank you for reading my post. Please read it again as I made some important points rather quickly and my inferences may have escaped casual examination.

The Shanghai Curse was not invented by me. I wish I had. Most who are aware of it attribute the phrase to Ruth Graham, belated wife of evangelist Billy Graham. Ruth didn't write it either.

At the end of the 19th century, the city of Shanghai on the Yantze River in China was the sewer of humanity. Every sort of debauchery could be found there. In fact, the very name of the city is a reference to its principle crime - kidnapping. To be Shanghai'd was to be kidnapped into human slavery and there was a lot of that going on. Sodom and Gomorrah were minor blots upon the history of humanity compared to Shanghai.

At the beginning of the twentieth century, American missionaries in Shanghai were deeply troubled. One of them wrote to his sponsoring organization in San Francisco trying to describe the activity of the citizens there. The words 'sin' and 'wickedness' were too inadequate. He wrote, and these are his exact words, 'if God does not judge Shanghai, He will have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah.' The inference clearly suggests that God won't apologize to anybody, therefore judgment upon Shanghai was certain. In August of 1937, the Imperial Japanese Army marched in and burned the city to the ground. Most of its citizens either abandoned the place or were murdered by the invaders. It was very much like the Assyrian destruction that was visited upon the ancient northern Kingdom of Israel.

I have modified the missionary curse upon Shanghai to apply it to the future of America. Somehow 'sin' and 'wickedness' are words too inadequate to describe the stench of human depravity that rises to heaven. I wrote it believing that the sins of America would be judged at some future time. The problem is that judgment is already underway. It is no longer a future event. Everything is happening much faster than I anticipated. God does not apologize for His righteous acts. Neither is He slow to execute His judgments.

--------------------------------

For you really are placing yourself in the judgment seat of God.............

--------------------------------
I am issuing an observation and a warning. Beyond that I have no interest or authority whatsoever.

One does not need to be a rocket scientist or an Old Testament prophet to see what is happening in the world. Unfortunately one does need to employ an impartial eye to see it, as well as a mind that is reasonably uncluttered with preconceptions.

Read your morning newspaper and watch your TV evening news. Do you see blessings raining upon America or do you see one horrendous disaster after another - a once great nation stumbling from one trap into another? Prior to 1968 disasters happened rarely and made history each time. Today they happen almost hourly and we have become desenitized to them all. In order to remain sane, the healthy mind learns to dismiss the avalanche of terror which presses in upon us all. Regardless of this natural reaction, it is still happening.

The problem, as one wise man has said, is that America's future isn't what it used to be.
(I wish I'd thought that one up too, but I didn't.)

The solution to all this is for men, women, boys and girls to make peace with Jesus Christ and to do it as soon as possible. Many people are looking at ways to survive our terrible times. Some of them seem to be good ways and some are just crazy. But unless a man builds his house on solid rock, that house will fall. The rock is Jesus Christ and 100% full allegiance to Him is the only sure way to hope in survival. You cannot hope in Washington, DC. They don't care if we live or die. Jesus does. Jesus saves.

I firmly attest here and now in the presence of any and all readers that I owe and give all my allegiance to Jesus Christ. The US government and those who give their allegiance to it will be damned because it is a false god leading to destruction. It has betrayed us in the past and will betray us in the future. White Christians are learning a lesson today that Native Americans were taught generations ago. You cannot trust Washington, DC. Christ will NEVER betray those who come to Him.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
 
I wonder... do you even have a clue about who the main players would be in world war III ??
-------------------------------------
I do actually have a clue. And then some.

Briefly stated the 'players' have arranged themselves in concentric political circles around the modern sovereign nation of Israel. Israel is the center. Israel is the key.

All of them will suffer divine judgment in degrees depending upon their duplicitous involvement. The reader should understand that the present military-political-financial alliances are very similar to those which precipitated the beginning of hostilities of World War I. A minor event, the assassination of Arch-Duke Ferninand, began the War to End All Wars. A minor event today may do the same thing - many observers agree at this point. At the moment we are dancing on the edge of a razor. No one wants peace.

Consider that there is no such thing as a peacemaker today. Jesus said that the peacemakers will be called the children of God. Everyone today either wants or justifies war. War settles nothing.

"I warn you against shedding blood, indulging in it and making a habit of it, for blood never sleeps."
- Salah ad-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub (Saladin)

"Until we learn to love our children more than war, we will have these battles."
- Golda Meir

"War is a racket."
- Brigadier General Smedley D. Butler

[The immediate circle of nations] allied against Israel are Israel's geographic neighbors. The Bible says so and current events support the ancient predictions.

The inner circle of nations can be easily identifed as the members of the GCC as well as the Shiite alliance. The Bible suggests that a centuries old division in Islam will be temporarily bridged by a charasmatic person. That difficult task will be like casting a suspension bridge over the Grand Canyon. Hitherto impossible, a person with demonic persuasive talents will be able to carry it off - temporarily. That person has not yet appeared on the world stage(1), but if Biblical predictions are to be trusted (and they've all been uncannily correct thus far) that person's advent is very very soon. The Bible says he will appear after a great apostacy - massive decline of the church. That event is behind us in history. Christendom is shattered and is nothing more than a hollow shell of its former power and influence. American Protestantism is in the advanced stages of self-destruction. Every theologian of worth has admitted to it.

The throne of satan is located in the modern nation of Turkey (see Revelation 2:12-13) The city of Pergamum is located in Turkey as was the ancient capital of the Eastern Roman Empire (Istanbul is the funding channel for al-Qaeda and ISIL - follow the money). If the Bible says what it means and means what it says, then this revelation is significant. The prediction of the resurrection of the Roman Empire may indicate the eastern portion. It is already a frightening reality and growing in power! WATCH TURKEY.

[The second circle of nations] allied against Israel will be those that have an association with one or more political entities of the inner circle. The United States, for example, is the prostitute client of the GCC, while Russia and China are closely allied with Iran. Like filth circling a toilet drain, they will be sucked into the vortex of war and will be judged for their participation in it. Weep and lament the soldiers of America, for a great many of them will lose their lives in the conflict. Many families will mourn and women will wail in the streets - you'll watch it all on TV. In those days the back of American military might will be broken.(2) It is close. It is very close.

Pride goes before a fall. There are few nations as proud of their militarism and foreign aggression as the United States.

[The outer circle of nations] that will be affected will be those who have geographic or financial ties with nations of the second circle. Examples of hostility in the outer arena are China vs. Japan, Ukraine vs. Russia and the BRIC nations vs. the World Bank to name a few.

Prior to general hostilities against Israel an international currency, ALREADY IN EFFECT, called the SDR/XDR IMF currency basket will replace the dollar to a great extent. American hegemony in the form of the dollar as global reserve currency will collapse in a matter of months.(3) It will not break suddenly as many predict, but it will dissolve rapidly. The value of the dollar on the international market will be broken.(2) As a result, the people of the United States may expect to suffer a series of shortages of food, goods and spare parts for our toys.
(Consult the BDIY index for a dramatic preview.) It is close. It is very close.

Each series of shortages will be more severe than the one before it. Why? Because America doesn't produce anything of value any more - except debt and MacDonald's hamburgers.

It is time to get real serious about getting right with Jesus Christ. The time for flirtations with pet sins and wickedness are OVER, boys and girls.

Nobody has a license to sin!

It is time to purge ourselves of every thought that opposes Jesus. Let each reader - man, woman, boy or girl consider these words seriously. Play time is over. GET RIGHT WITH JESUS - NOW. Only Christ can get us through the difficult times ahead. Those that wish for a Star Trek beam-out to save them will be sadly disappointed. Get right with Christ and He will carry us through it - with courage and resolute hearts. HIS finest hour is at hand. The second coming is close. Very close.

"When you see these things come to pass, look up and rejoice for your redemption draws near."
- Jesus

CELEBRATE CELEBRATE CELEBRATE

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

PS
Doubts? Questions? Google it. My advice is that you take an aspirin first. The resulting headache will be unpleasant.

(1) Mohammad bin Salman Al Saud may be a contender for the honor.
As of 05/11/2015 he and representatives of the GCC are working with POTUS Obama and the Pentagon to plan the next war in the Middle East.
The US intelligence community is presently working on the propaganda methods to justify it and obtain popular support.
Timeline for their mischief is twelve to eighteen months or less (based upon previous performance).

(2) Prophecy of Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. (circa 1967)

(3) Many predictions state that the dollar will collapse in 2015. Why 2015?
Every five years the principle member nations of the Special Drawing Rights currency basket (XDR) meet to decide valuation and membership.
As of the last review in 2010 member currencies were; The United States dollar, the Euro, the British pound sterling and the Japanese Yen.
China wants the Yuan/Renminbi included in the basket at the 2015 meeting. If accepted, it will supplant the dollar as global reserve currency.
The IMF, International Monetary Fund, leadership is expected to approve the application because China's economy is the strongest on the planet. (They actually make things!)

The most important lesson I ever learned was how to read. I do it constantly.

"Let the reader understand."
- Jesus
 
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Wow, Certainly you should not come to or be in America. Bad place. Move to Iran where they love Jesus and serve God.
Amazing.

Iran is a Muslim Shiite nation. According to Islam, Jesus (Isa in the Qur'an) was only a prophet and though He is to be respected, He is not loved (that's a contradiction I know, but that's Islam for you).

Additionally, the nation of Iran does not serve God. Muslims worship Allah. There are technical differences and theological differences, but the bottom line is that Allah is not the same god as the one the Jews worship or the one Christians hope in and pray to and worship.

Muslims serve Allah.
Jews pray to and worship YHWH.
Christians worship Jesus.

There is a HUGE difference between all three. Anyone who says its the same God is betraying their ignorance.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

PS I've been to Iran. Nasty place. I prefer the states.
 
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