A WRATHFUL GOD & THE ATONEMENT

[GodsGrace]

The Reformation brought with it the atonement theory known as Penal Substitution.

God is so angry at the humans He created, because of their sin, that He demanded a sacrifice to satisfy His anger.

Is this why Jesus had to die?

There are other atonement theories also.

Do you like the one above?
A different one?

If you don't know much about this subject, try an article by Morrison, Theories of Atonement .

Why DID Jesus have to be sacrificed?

 

[Highway54]

The Reformation brought with it the atonement theory known as Penal Substitution.

God is so angry at the humans He created, because of their sin, that He demanded a sacrifice to satisfy His anger.

Is this why Jesus had to die?

There are other atonement theories also.

Do you like the one above?
A different one?

If you don't know much about this subject, try an article by Morrison, Theories of Atonement .

Why DID Jesus have to be sacrificed?

Great question maam, easy answer but not necessarily easy to understand. Most likely most of us were raised with the philosophy that 2 wrongs don't make a right. But it has to do with God's perfect law, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, soul for soul. When Adam chose to sin, he lost life for all humans since no human was born prior to his sin, thus we were born in sin Rom 5:12. We learned through the law, that sins could be redeemed based on their seriousness through sacrifices, but of course none could buy back the loss of Adams sin. An equal sacrifice had to be offered to buy that back. Since no human could redeem us, God chose to send His son to be a human, exacting to Adam. Thankfully Jesus did not sin, therefore he was equal to Adam and could be offered up to buy back the life Adam lost. That is the truthful and honest answer, even though it may not compute in our minds.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Great question maam, easy answer but not necessarily easy to understand. Most likely most of us were raised with the philosophy that 2 wrongs don't make a right. But it has to do with God's perfect law, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, soul for soul. When Adam chose to sin, he lost life for all humans since no human was born prior to his sin, thus we were born in sin Rom 5:12. We learned through the law, that sins could be redeemed based on their seriousness through sacrifices, but of course none could buy back the loss of Adams sin. An equal sacrifice had to be offered to buy that back. Since no human could redeem us, God chose to send His son to be a human, exacting to Adam. Thankfully Jesus did not sin, therefore he was equal to Adam and could be offered up to buy back the life Adam lost. That is the truthful and honest answer, even though it may not compute in our minds.

Romans 5 doesn’t say we were born in sin. It says we all (choose to) sin.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The Reformation brought with it the atonement theory known as Penal Substitution.

God is so angry at the humans He created, because of their sin, that He demanded a sacrifice to satisfy His anger.

Is this why Jesus had to die?

There are other atonement theories also.

Do you like the one above?
A different one?

If you don't know much about this subject, try an article by Morrison, Theories of Atonement .

Why DID Jesus have to be sacrificed?

A different way to look at it is to ask what else He have done?

Secondly, to understand that we would need to understand the seriousness of sin.

 

[Highway54]

Romans 5 doesn’t say we were born in sin. It says we all (choose to) sin.

Why did you choose to sin maam?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Why did you choose to sin maam?

Read James as to why we sin, sir. No one in the whole of the Bible thought it’s because of an inborn sin nature we were born with.

 

[Highway54]

Read James as to why we sin, sir. No one in the whole of the Bible thought it’s because of an inborn sin nature we were born with.

Are you ignorant as to why Jehovah had to send Jesus rather than selecting a faithful human already here?

 

[Iconoclast]

Romans 5 doesn’t say we were born in sin. It says we all (choose to) sin.

Another denial of the fall.Rom3:23 declares all sinned in Adam. At one point in time,namely the fall.

 

[Iconoclast]

Read James as to why we sin, sir. No one in the whole of the Bible thought it’s because of an inborn sin nature we were born with.

Once again, no clue on sin and death,but offer false teaching like it is on sale.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Are you ignorant as to why Jehovah had to send Jesus rather than selecting a faithful human already here?

I am extremely well informed to the point that I know that the word rendered “Jehovah” (YHWH) Is totally from man’s imagination despite that “faithful slave” dictating otherwise. Get back to the topic!

 

[GodsGrace]

Once again, no clue on sin and death,but offer false teaching like it is on sale.

Icon,
Please remember that you're in the Theology Forum. The rules are different here.
Please use scripture and treat others with respect.
Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

I am extremely well informed to the point that I know that the word rendered “Jehovah” (YHWH) Is totally from man’s imagination despite that “faithful slave” dictating otherwise. Get back to the topic!

I think the above is about the topic...
Highway54 asked why some normal human could not have atoned for our sins.

Good question.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I think the above is about the topic...
Highway54 asked why some normal human could not have atoned for our sins.

Good question.

He keeps referring to that “faithful slave” who tells him what to believe. That’s off topic. JW teaching isn’t the subject.

 

[GodsGrace]

He keeps referring to that “faithful slave” who tells him what to believe. That’s off topic. JW teaching isn’t the subject.

OK

 

[Whatever]

Why DID Jesus have to be sacrificed?

Because it was the will of God.

Rom 9:22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Rom 9:23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,

God wanted to show His power and wrath and also "the riches of His glory" by redeeming a multitude of people and damning the rest. The Son came willingly.

1 John_4:10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Propitiation from Strongs Greek Dictionary = hilasmos - atonement, that is, (concretely) an expiator: - propitiation.

Expiate from the 1828 Webster's dictionary:
1. To atone for; to make satisfaction for; to extinguish the guilt of a crime by subsequent acts of piety or worship, by which the obligation to punish the crime is canceled. To expiate guilt or a crime, is to perform some act which is supposed to purify the person guilty; or some act which is accepted by the offended party as satisfaction for the injury; that is, some act by which his wrath is appeased, and his forgiveness procured.

This shows you the seriousness of sin. God cannot just brush it away.

 

[GodsGrace]

Because it was the will of God.

Rom 9:22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Rom 9:23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,

God wanted to show His power and wrath and also "the riches of His glory" by redeeming a multitude of people and damning the rest. The Son came willingly.

1 John_4:10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Propitiation from Strongs Greek Dictionary = hilasmos - atonement, that is, (concretely) an expiator: - propitiation.

Expiate from the 1828 Webster's dictionary:
1. To atone for; to make satisfaction for; to extinguish the guilt of a crime by subsequent acts of piety or worship, by which the obligation to punish the crime is canceled. To expiate guilt or a crime, is to perform some act which is supposed to purify the person guilty; or some act which is accepted by the offended party as satisfaction for the injury; that is, some act by which his wrath is appeased, and his forgiveness procured.

This shows you the seriousness of sin. God cannot just brush it away.

Yes. Sin is serious.
Why couldn't God just forgive us?

 

[journeyman]

The Reformation brought with it the atonement theory known as Penal Substitution.

God is so angry at the humans He created, because of their sin, that He demanded a sacrifice to satisfy His anger.

Is this why Jesus had to die?

No. God sent Jesus to love people. Even people who hated him,

But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is we Heb.13:16

if you suffer for doing good and endure it patiently, God is pleased with you. 1Pet.2:20

 

[GodsGrace]

No. God sent Jesus to love people. Even people who hated him,

But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is we Heb.13:16

if you suffer for doing good and endure it patiently, God is pleased with you. 1Pet.2:20

Or, to TEACH us to love.
This would be the Cristus Victor Theory of Atonement.
I like this one too.

 

[journeyman]

Or, to TEACH us to love.

That's it in one nail shot. Our Savior was showing us the mercy of God, not his justice or judgement. Gods' judgement doesn't fall on the victim, but on the criminal. The Father and Son by their law could have put to death the people who sinned against them, but instead gave sinners time to rethink their wrongdoing and repent.

This would be the Cristus Victor Theory of Atonement.
I like this one too.

Ok I guess I'm a CV believer.

 

[Highway54]

I am extremely well informed to the point that I know that the word rendered “Jehovah” (YHWH) Is totally from man’s imagination despite that “faithful slave” dictating otherwise. Get back to the topic!

Please do maam.