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All Israel Will Be Saved
- Thread starter Larryh
- Start date
Paul said they are not all Israel, that are of Israel. (Rom 9:6) His point is, the Israel of God is not the same as simply being of fleshly descent from Israel. There is a distinction. In Romans 9, 10, 11, he further explains. I know it is tough to understand, but he expected his first century readers to understand it. Here is the way I see it. Paul knew that all of BELIEVING Israel, in his own day, -- the apostles, added to 3000 on the day of Pentecost, plus the thousands of other Israelites who had believed, plus himself --were the Israel of God. But there were many more among the ethnic Israel that had NOT YET believed, but WOULD be saved, because God foreknew them. All of them would be saved before the end of the age. (the Mosaic age of Temple sacrifices and ritual.) The unbelieving Israelites would be destroyed with their city and temple. But all the TRUE Israelites would be saved, even if they had not, at the time of Paul's letter, believed in Christ. There was still a remnant that would come to faith by hearing Paul and other preachers BEFORE the end of the age, AD 70. (If, as some say, all the Israelites would be saved, thousands of years into Paul's future, at once, in the nation of Israel, presumably, what about the millions of them who have died without Christ in the intervening centuries? We're they saved? If "all Israel" meant every ethnic Jew, ever, then Paul's message would make no sense at all.)
Blade
Member
NT.. Christ came died for the sins of the world. He came to His own first and anyone Jewish or not that does not believe in Jesus/Yeshua as lord will not enter. Jesus is the only way in. Being Jewish will not save anyone. After the fullness of the Gentiles come in then all will be saved. This is lol one of those things I think Peter meant by saying some of Pauls sayings are hard to understand. All from what I read and understand is not every Jew that ever lived. Christ made it very clear He is the only way in and He told this to His own people frist.
So maybe after the fullness they Israel will see the light and come to Him in great numbers praise God which they are right now.. so awesome! This is all my understanding.. I can be
wrong.
So maybe after the fullness they Israel will see the light and come to Him in great numbers praise God which they are right now.. so awesome! This is all my understanding.. I can be
wrong.
Obviously, not all Jews are saved or will be. But your explanation begs a question: what does Paul mean by "until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in"? It seems like it means that until the bulk of gentile elect are saved, the partial hardening of Israel will continue, which would mean that the partial hardening is still in effect, since it appears that only a remnant is being saved. And the context is contrasting Israel as a nation against the gentiles, which would mean that "all Israel will be saved" means the whole nation. I'm trying to understand the context. What is your take on Paul's phrase "the fullness of the Gentiles"?
The fullness of the Gentiles makes up all of Israel that will be saved. As Ephraim mixed himself up with other nations that was a foreshadowing of the Gentiles being grafted into Israel meaning all of Israel will be saved that have faith in God as being part of the covenant God made with Abraham, Genesis 12:1-3; 48:17-19; Hosea 7:8. Jesus told the Apostles to proclaim the Gospel first in Jerusalem, then Judea, then Samaria and then to the ends of the world, Acts 1:8; 8:14-17, Samaria is the fulfillment of the restoration of Israel as both Jew and Gentiles both dwelt there, Galatians 3:28, 29.
Your initial statement doesn't make sense. Are you saying that gentile believers are Israel now? And if so, why is Paul making a distinction between them? Why does he say "partial hardening" to Israel? Notice v. 12:
"Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!" Can you see the distinction between gentiles and Israel here? Why is he making this distinction if he regards gentiles as Israel? It seems to me that "their full inclusion" is referring to Jews, not gentiles, since the 3 "their"s in this statement refers to Israel as opposed to gentiles.
I'm saying that because of the fall of Israel (not all of Israel) that salvation has come to the Gentiles to provoke the unfaithful Israelites to jealousy. God has always saved a faithful remnant of the tribes of Israel that repented of their worship of Baal, but yet many have to this day never repented.
It's all by God's grace through faith, not by works, that saves those who believe and are Baptized into the Baptism of Christ receiving the Holy Spirit and are obedient to His commands.
It's because of the fall of Israel that salvation has come to the Gentiles as we are graphed into the branch of Israel as now there is neither Jew or Gentile as we are all one body of Christ with He being the head of the body, Romans Chapter 11; Galatians Chapter 3.
It still begs the question why is Paul making a distinction between Gentiles and Israel?
n2thelight
Member
First one must understand whom Israel is
smaller
Member
Obviously all of Israel are the physical progeny of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, their offspring, loved for the sake of their fathers, even though they "are" enemies of the Gospel. They were made enemies for our sake
That would be all of their descendants, past, present, future, saved
That would be all of their descendants, past, present, future, saved
n2thelight
Member
Nope, that's like saying is saved just because ,if one belongs to the wrong tree they won't be saved ,I don't care who they are .
All of Israel is all that believe in Christ period !!!
IMO the key to understanding is that Paul says, "AND SO all Israel will be saved"--not just "all Israel shall be saved." The key is in understanding the "AND SO".
Limbs are cut off. If Joe develops gangrene or cancer, we may cut off one of Joe's limbs and say that this will save Joe. Well...yes...but his limb was Joe, too, and we are not saving that limb. Yet at the same time, if we switch our manner of speaking, to say that we are saving all of Joe by cutting off his limb is not incorrect, either. We lose the leg, but we save Joe.
Limbs are cut off. If Joe develops gangrene or cancer, we may cut off one of Joe's limbs and say that this will save Joe. Well...yes...but his limb was Joe, too, and we are not saving that limb. Yet at the same time, if we switch our manner of speaking, to say that we are saving all of Joe by cutting off his limb is not incorrect, either. We lose the leg, but we save Joe.
n2thelight
Member
Again , who is Israel ?
King James Bible And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel. (Ezek 36:17 KJV) Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman. (Ezek 36:18 KJV) Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it. (Ezek 36:22 KJV) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. (Ezek 36:24 KJV) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. (Ezek 36:31 KJV) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. (Ezek 36:32 KJV) Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. |
King James Bible
Ezekiel 21:32
Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.
According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."
https://tinyurl.com/y6ryw6hf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population
Going, going, going--- gone
According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."
en.wikipedia.org
<>
https://tinyurl.com/y6ryw6hf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population
Going, going, going--- gone
According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."
Jewish population by country - Wikipedia
The armies attacking Jerusalem as noted in Zech 14 are destroyed by God not man. For the sake of Gods Holy name He will show Himself Holy to all the world.
The Kingdom will be restored to Israel to fulfill Gods promises.
But those saved in those days will enter the body of Christ. I believe the signs given in Rev 11 will be how God finally draws all those unbelievers in Israel to believe and be saved.
Rev 11:13
At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.
As Jesus would state, "you believe at last."
That Kingdom will never be destroyed.
Zech 14
On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.
9The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name.
The Kingdom will be restored to Israel to fulfill Gods promises.
But those saved in those days will enter the body of Christ. I believe the signs given in Rev 11 will be how God finally draws all those unbelievers in Israel to believe and be saved.
Rev 11:13
At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.
As Jesus would state, "you believe at last."
That Kingdom will never be destroyed.
Zech 14
On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.
9The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name.
Ezekiel
Chapter 21
1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, set thy face toward Jerusalem, and drop thy word toward the holy places, and prophesy against the land of Israel,
3 And say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I am against thee, and will draw forth my sword out of his sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked.
22 At his right hand was the divination for Jerusalem, to appoint captains, to open the mouth in the slaughter, to lift up the voice with shouting, to appoint battering rams against the gates, to cast a mount, and to build a fort.
23 And it shall be unto them as a false divination in their sight, to them that have sworn oaths: but he will call to remembrance the iniquity, that they may be taken.
24 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand.
25 And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,
27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.
28 And thou, son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD concerning the Ammonites, and concerning their reproach; even say thou, The sword, the sword is drawn: for the slaughter it is furbished, to consume because of the glittering:
29 Whiles they see vanity unto thee, whiles they divine a lie unto thee, to bring thee upon the necks of them that are slain, of the wicked, whose day is come, when their iniquity shall have an end.
30 Shall I cause it to return into his sheath? I will judge thee in the place where thou wast created, in the land of thy nativity.
31 And I will pour out mine indignation upon thee, I will blow against thee in the fire of my wrath, and deliver thee into the hand of brutish men, and skilful to destroy.
32 Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.
And so it will be done
Genesis 25:9 His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah near Mamre, in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite,
Genesis 47:30 but when I rest with my fathers, carry me out of Egypt and bury me [ Israel ] where they are buried." "I will do as you say," he said. ;
Genesis 49:31 There Abraham and his wife Sarah were buried, there Isaac and his wife Rebekah were buried, and there I buried Leah.
Genesis 50:10 And they came to the threshingfloor of Atad, which is beyond Jordan, and there they mourned with a great and very sore lamentation:
Genesis 50:13 For his sons carried him [ Israel ] into the land of Canaan, and buried him in the cave of the field of Machpelah, which Abraham bought with the field for a possession of a buryingplace of Ephron the Hittite, before Mamre.
Genesis 50:14 After burying his father, Joseph returned to Egypt, together with his brothers and all the others who had gone with him to bury his father.
The Israeli's claim the land they now occupy the homeland of the Israelites while their great leaders were buried elsewhere; Israel, Isaac, Rebekah, Abraham, Leah and Sarah were not buried in the land we now call "Israel" but in a land called Canaan which was beyond the Jordan river.
Why is there such a disconnect from biblical history and the occupied land of Palestine today?
According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."
https://tinyurl.com/y6ryw6hf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population
Going, going, going--- gone
According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."
<>Jewish population by country - Wikipedia
The ideal number of Jews in the world would be zero. Because they all accepted Christ.