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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
All Israel Will Be Saved
- Thread starter Larryh
- Start date
I'm not quite sure I know what a clan follower is, but I think I can guess. This seems to be the concern for those who take a more pronounced Anti-Isreal side of things, but I think it is overblown regarding many who take the other side. I'm not particularly "Pro-Israeli," if you know what I mean. I don't support Jews financially, nor spend my money trying to return them to their homeland. But I do believe they will come to repentance in the time of the end, when they finally realize the prophecies found in the Christian Bible concerning them are coming true. Considering them as beyond redemption and eternally condemned by God is not a godly view to take, IMO.
Again, I have never been a devoted follower. I think going to the extreme in either direction is a mistake theologically.
No, Kathy. You are bouncing from one extreme to the other it sounds like, without stepping back and analyzing things in light of scripture itself. The word says that when the fullness of the Gentiles has finally come in, then the Lord will turn back to the nation of Israel and they will become the focal point of prophetic fulfillment and world events once more. What they are now is not what scripture says they will be.
But I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.
Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
It works, just ask Anastacia of One For Israel. I love these people. My people!
I should not have used the term “clan”.
A clan is a group of people united by actual or perceived kinship and descent. Even if lineage details are unknown, clans may claim descent from founding member or apical ancestor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan
I am referring to a group of people who share a common belief that others do not
The land called "Israel" is not the ancestral homeland of the Jews.
Genesis 25:9 His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah near Mamre, in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite,
Genesis 47:30 but when I rest with my fathers, carry me out of Egypt and bury me [ Israel ] where they are buried." "I will do as you say," he said. ;
Genesis 49:31 There Abraham and his wife Sarah were buried, there Isaac and his wife Rebekah were buried, and there I buried Leah.
Genesis 50:10 And they came to the threshingfloor of Atad, which is beyond Jordan, and there they mourned with a great and very sore lamentation:
Genesis 50:13 For his sons carried him [ Israel ] into the land of Canaan, and buried him in the cave of the field of Machpelah, which Abraham bought with the field for a possession of a buryingplace of Ephron the Hittite, before Mamre.
Genesis 50:14 After burying his father, Joseph returned to Egypt, together with his brothers and all the others who had gone with him to bury his father.
The Israeli's claim the land they now occupy the homeland of the Israelites while their great leaders were buried elsewhere; Israel, Isaac, Rebekah, Abraham, Leah and Sarah were not buried in the land we now call "Israel" but in a land called Canaan which was beyond the Jordan river.
Why is there such a disconnect from biblical history and the occupied land of today?
You bury your great leaders in your own homeland
Which Is Not the land falsely called “Israel” today
The truth will set you free
Another biblical fact you should be aware of-----
(Gen 41:39 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, Forasmuch as God hath showed thee all this, there is none so discreet and wise as thou art:
NOTE: joseph is a Jewish person living in Egypt
(Gen 41:40 KJV) Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.
(Gen 41:42 KJV) And Pharaoh took off his ring from his hand, and put it upon Joseph's hand, and arrayed him in vestures of fine linen, and put a gold chain about his neck;
(Gen 41:44 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, I am Pharaoh, and without thee shall no man lift up his hand or foot in all the land of Egypt.
Gen 41:46 KJV) And Joseph was thirty years old when he stood before Pharaoh King of Egypt. And Joseph went out from the presence of Pharaoh, and went throughout all the land of Egypt.
Joseph who is now the de facto ruler over all of Egypt saves the Israelites who are experiencing a great famine and moves them to Egypt and gives them power over all the agriculture lands. Clearly they were not slaves as some would have believed.
(Gen 42:1 KJV) Now when Jacob saw that there was corn in Egypt, Jacob said unto his sons, why do ye look one upon another?
(Gen 42:5 KJV) And the sons of Israel came to buy corn among those that came: for the famine was in the land of Canaan.
(Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:
(Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.
See above, they abandon the land of Canaan and move to Egypt
(Gen 45:21 KJV) And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.
(Gen 47:1 KJV) Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.
(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.
(Gen 47:5 KJV) And Pharaoh spake unto Joseph, saying, Thy father [ISRAEL] and thy brethren are come unto thee:
(Gen 47:6 KJV) The land of Egypt is before thee; in the best of the land make thy father and brethren to dwell; in the land of Goshen let them dwell: and if thou knowest any men of activity among them, then make them rulers over my cattle.
(Gen 47:11 KJV) And Joseph placed his father [ISRAEL] and his brethren, and gave them a possession in the land of Egypt, in the best of the land, in the land of Rameses, as Pharaoh had commanded.
All the Jewish people lived in Egypt until Moses murders a man in the street for beating a fellow Jew. The Pharaoh sought to punish Moses for the killing but before he could be caught Moses and his followers flee, marking the beginning of exodus
Personally, none of the above concerns me, it was a long time ago. What concerns me is what they have been doing in the last 5 decades.
You can google “IDF shooting children” to get a glimpse of their actions.
You can google “Israelis destroying Palestinian homes.
You can google “Israel destroys Palestinian fishing rights.
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All Israel Will Be Saved
Tell me, what are they being saved from?
Essential Meaning of propaganda
ideas or statements that are often false or exaggerated and that are spread in order to help a cause, a political leader, a government, etc.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propaganda
All I am doing is reciting some bible verses and news reports covering real actions.
Nothing more, nothing else
I am not propagating propaganda, period, nada, zip
The "Cave of Machpelah" is situated 19 miles south of Jerusalem in the Old City of Hebron, which is part of Israel. Where are you getting your information from?
They were not slaves when they first came to Goshen. They were welcomed there. But they were slaves by the time Moses had to deliver them out of Egypt because nearly 400 years had passed and they were now being worked to death. Again, where are you getting your information from?
Annihilation.
Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Not all of Israel is Gods chosen people. Those who are washed in the blood of the Lamb are joined as a branch with Israel as God is the root of that branch and those who are sealed by His Holy Spirit are His own who find favor in Him, Romans 11:11-31.
Israel lost her right to be called Gods chosen people, (God did save a faithful remnant), as they fell into idolatry worshiping other gods as they allowed themselves to fall from Gods grace as they followed the lust of their own hearts as they practiced Judaism, 1 Kings 9:1-9. God’s judgment against them led them to be captured, 605 – 537 B.C., by Nebuchadnezzar and taken into Babylon for seventy years while Nebuchadnezzar’s army killed many Jews in Judah and Jerusalem destroying the whole city of Jerusalem including the first Temple that was built through King Solomon’s reign in Jerusalem.
The second Temple was built under Ezra’s leadership and Israel continued practicing Judaism and their Temple was desecrated as part of an effort to impose Greek-oriented culture and customs on the entire population. Roman rule refurbished the temple as Herod, Romans vassal king, rules the land of Israel. In 70 A.D. the Temple is once again destroyed. The Temple Mount was taken over in 691 A.D. as the Arab nation built the Dome of the Rock and there has not been any other Temple built since that time on the original Temple Mount.
God gave Israel 490 years to repent. They were set free from Babylon when the Medes and Persian conquered Babylon (Chaldean) around 538 B.C. They were allowed back in the land and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, however, they still did not repent for their sin of idol worshiping and they continued to receive punishment from God as the kingdom was taken away and eventually taken over by the Roman Empire. Malachi Chapter 1-4.
The 490 years were up and many of the Jews not only did not repent but they killed the very Messiah they had been waiting for as well as in 24 A.D. they made an opened display of rejecting the Gospel message as they stoned Stephen being the final messenger that was sent to give them their last chance to repent. The Jews were now rejected as God’s chosen people and were no different from the Gentiles as from that time forth each individual, Jew and Gentile has to make their own decision to accept or reject Jesus as Lord and Savior, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10.
The disciples were called first to preach to the Jews, Matthew 10:6, and Paul was called to preach to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21. God has saved a remnant out of the twelve tribes of Israel even up to a thousand generations that have always been faithful to Him, Exodus 20:1-6; Psalms 105:7, 8, but those who have yet to accept Jesus as Messiah God will continue to cut them off.
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Not all of Israel is Gods chosen people. Those who are washed in the blood of the Lamb are joined as a branch with Israel as God is the root of that branch and those who are sealed by His Holy Spirit are His own who find favor in Him, Romans 11:11-31.
Israel lost her right to be called Gods chosen people, (God did save a faithful remnant), as they fell into idolatry worshiping other gods as they allowed themselves to fall from Gods grace as they followed the lust of their own hearts as they practiced Judaism, 1 Kings 9:1-9. God’s judgment against them led them to be captured, 605 – 537 B.C., by Nebuchadnezzar and taken into Babylon for seventy years while Nebuchadnezzar’s army killed many Jews in Judah and Jerusalem destroying the whole city of Jerusalem including the first Temple that was built through King Solomon’s reign in Jerusalem.
The second Temple was built under Ezra’s leadership and Israel continued practicing Judaism and their Temple was desecrated as part of an effort to impose Greek-oriented culture and customs on the entire population. Roman rule refurbished the temple as Herod, Romans vassal king, rules the land of Israel. In 70 A.D. the Temple is once again destroyed. The Temple Mount was taken over in 691 A.D. as the Arab nation built the Dome of the Rock and there has not been any other Temple built since that time on the original Temple Mount.
God gave Israel 490 years to repent. They were set free from Babylon when the Medes and Persian conquered Babylon (Chaldean) around 538 B.C. They were allowed back in the land and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, however, they still did not repent for their sin of idol worshiping and they continued to receive punishment from God as the kingdom was taken away and eventually taken over by the Roman Empire. Malachi Chapter 1-4.
The 490 years were up and many of the Jews not only did not repent but they killed the very Messiah they had been waiting for as well as in 24 A.D. they made an opened display of rejecting the Gospel message as they stoned Stephen being the final messenger that was sent to give them their last chance to repent. The Jews were now rejected as God’s chosen people and were no different from the Gentiles as from that time forth each individual, Jew and Gentile has to make their own decision to accept or reject Jesus as Lord and Savior, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10.
The disciples were called first to preach to the Jews, Matthew 10:6, and Paul was called to preach to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21. God has saved a remnant out of the twelve tribes of Israel even up to a thousand generations that have always been faithful to Him, Exodus 20:1-6; Psalms 105:7, 8, but those who have yet to accept Jesus as Messiah God will continue to cut them off.
Rev 7:1-8
John is given another vision after these things, meaning after the first six seals that are revealed to him. He now sees four angels standing on the four corners of the earth holding the four winds of the earth in order that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree until Gods servants were sealed.
These servants are the generational 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel, except for the tribe of Dan and Ephraim as they fell to idol worship and allowed God to be removed from them, Judges 18:30; 1 Kings12:25-33; Hosea 5:9, 11;Psalms 78:9-17, 65-67. To keep it twelve tribes since Dan and Ephraim are not mentioned in vs. 4-8 the tribe of Joseph appears twice, once under his own name and once under the name of his son Issachar/Manasseh. Judah is mentioned first as Messiah was to come from the lineage of David.
When studying the history of the twelve tribes of Israel being the sons of Jacob/Israel we find from 1047 B.C. and 931 B.C. the twelve tribes were under the leadership of three Kings, Saul, David and Solomon. Near the end of Solomon's reign he fell into idolatry and God spoke of tearing apart the Kingdom as judgment for these sins, 1 Kings 11:10-12.
After Solomon's death his son Rehoboam became King and those ten Northern tribes (Israel/Ephraim) rebelled against King Rehoboam and followed after Jeroboam up North causing a division of the north and south Kingdom. Only the tribe of Judah (Judah) and the tribe of Benjamin (Judah) stayed Loyal to King Rehoboam in the southern Kingdom for they kept Gods commandments as they knew David was the lineage of the promised Messiah as it was prophesied of the prophets of God. For almost two centuries the two Kingdoms where divided, but a remnant of the ten tribes soon came back to Judah after following Jeroboam as he turned the northern Kingdom into idol worshipers.
This is the importance of the 144,000 of the house of Israel and their generations unto the end of days. There were those of the old covenant that were faithful to God in keeping all his commandments and repented of their idol worshipping. Their generations who have also come back to Gods grace that are still alive during the seven trumpet sounds will continue to preach to the Jews as it was with the twelve disciples in Matthew 10:6. The generations of the 144,000 that are still alive have the seal of God on them which are the seven Spirits of God as they will have to endure much persecution until the end of days before the return of Jesus.
(Seven Spirits of God are found in Isaiah 11:2 and mentioned in Rev 1:4.
Spirit of the Lord, wisdom, understanding, counsel, power, knowledge and fear/respect of the Lord.)
John is given another vision after these things, meaning after the first six seals that are revealed to him. He now sees four angels standing on the four corners of the earth holding the four winds of the earth in order that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree until Gods servants were sealed.
These servants are the generational 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel, except for the tribe of Dan and Ephraim as they fell to idol worship and allowed God to be removed from them, Judges 18:30; 1 Kings12:25-33; Hosea 5:9, 11;Psalms 78:9-17, 65-67. To keep it twelve tribes since Dan and Ephraim are not mentioned in vs. 4-8 the tribe of Joseph appears twice, once under his own name and once under the name of his son Issachar/Manasseh. Judah is mentioned first as Messiah was to come from the lineage of David.
When studying the history of the twelve tribes of Israel being the sons of Jacob/Israel we find from 1047 B.C. and 931 B.C. the twelve tribes were under the leadership of three Kings, Saul, David and Solomon. Near the end of Solomon's reign he fell into idolatry and God spoke of tearing apart the Kingdom as judgment for these sins, 1 Kings 11:10-12.
After Solomon's death his son Rehoboam became King and those ten Northern tribes (Israel/Ephraim) rebelled against King Rehoboam and followed after Jeroboam up North causing a division of the north and south Kingdom. Only the tribe of Judah (Judah) and the tribe of Benjamin (Judah) stayed Loyal to King Rehoboam in the southern Kingdom for they kept Gods commandments as they knew David was the lineage of the promised Messiah as it was prophesied of the prophets of God. For almost two centuries the two Kingdoms where divided, but a remnant of the ten tribes soon came back to Judah after following Jeroboam as he turned the northern Kingdom into idol worshipers.
This is the importance of the 144,000 of the house of Israel and their generations unto the end of days. There were those of the old covenant that were faithful to God in keeping all his commandments and repented of their idol worshipping. Their generations who have also come back to Gods grace that are still alive during the seven trumpet sounds will continue to preach to the Jews as it was with the twelve disciples in Matthew 10:6. The generations of the 144,000 that are still alive have the seal of God on them which are the seven Spirits of God as they will have to endure much persecution until the end of days before the return of Jesus.
(Seven Spirits of God are found in Isaiah 11:2 and mentioned in Rev 1:4.
Spirit of the Lord, wisdom, understanding, counsel, power, knowledge and fear/respect of the Lord.)
Hidden, your complaint against me worked, I have been censored
For telling someone I was right, and another was wrong, which I do not recall.
Please forgive me if I have hurt your feelings
BTW: I get my information from the KJV of the bible and public articles
You have to be careful with worldly articles as many have nothing to do with scripture, but only worldly matters that are of no concern to a child of God.
In my view children of God have to deal with worldly things
Having said that, please ignore me and just pass on by
Sorry, can't ignore you as I am an Administrator.
Of course we have to deal with certain worldly things as we still live in this world, but yet as we can see clearly is that the media does not always present the truth. This is why it is better to listen or read Christian news that deals with the worlds affairs as it lines up with scripture. This is what we need to be concerned with and how to help others in this world.
Endtimesdeut32
Member
About 15 years ago I began studying Romans 9 through 11 as part of a discussion with a dispensationalist. The study also was my first steps into preterism. I am still agreeing with the results of the study 20 years later.
I will post a link to that article but I'll try to summarize the points of my study here.
Point one. It's important to understand that in Romans 9 call uses the Patriarchs Abraham Isaac and Jacob 2 proclaim that the way of righteousness by faith was for known and for elect by God long before the Mosaic Covenant Nation was formed through Moses. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob Israel were foreimages of those who believed/ received the promise of the future (now fulfilled)seed of God / Eve by faith. ( Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness) He reminds them that in Isaac was the seed to be called. Isaac was the son of the miraculous birth through Sarah's old age. Isaac was also the one Taken 2 The Altar as "thy only son" as a for image of God offering his only begotten son, Jesus.
He is defining who all Israel is in this section and that definition is those who believe in Jesus as the seed of God promise pru Eve that was foreshadowed through these Patriarchs.. this is the way of God's election for life. Just as he chose Jacob though he was the second born before he was born so also he chose this way of life and righteousness by faith.
Then he includes the idea that just like pharaoh, some Jews were foreknown and predestined to suffer wrath partly by their own election to disbelieve and partly by gods for-knowing hardening.
He includes the Gentiles and Samaritans with all Israel and among those who are to receive Mercy or have received Mercy through faith in Christ..
So when saying all Israel is not of Israel oh, he is saying that all Israel is not necessarily of the genetic descendants of Abraham but includes even Gentiles who believe in Christ as God incarnate , and follow the way of Christ.
It was helpful to me to stumble across a inductive study on these chapters in which the observation was made that the phrase "all Israel shall be saved", was a phrase that was repeated by the rabbis of the day to which they were then add behaviors or doctrines which would exclude particular Jews from being included in all Israel. Of course this was likely subject to interpretation of the rabbis.
I think it's important to point out that the fullness of the Gentiles is not referring to a full number of Gentiles or a era of the Gentiles. The fullness is, as used previously in the chapter and elsewhere in the New Testament refers to the fullness of the spirit of God in Christ residing within those who receive him. This was prophesied in Deuteronomy 32 21 as quoted in Romans 10 19 to cause some of those Jews who remained in unbelief in that generation to become jealous unto believing.
Paul doesn't want his first century readers to become ignorant of this and to think that those individual Jews who would even come to persecute and attempt to JJudaize them were forever cut off. And as noted this jealousy unto emulation can continue
I read verse 26 in Romans 11 as a beginning of a new paragraph. The word so does not mean then or afterwards. It is a Greek word that means in this manner. It can refer to a manner of something being described before it or something being described after it. Since the word so is grammatically connected to the words as it is written in the same verse the manner in which all Israel, (meaning the Believers in Christ who offer themselves as lambs and do not defend themselves against the persecution of the Jews or the Romans), was to be saved is referring to the second part of vs 26 and verse 27 which are taken from Isaiah 59.
if we want to know what Paul is referring to and how Israel, the Believers and the Lambs of God, where to be saved or delivered we need to look to the context of Isaiah 59 for our answer.
in Isaiah 59 5 the timing of the Fulfillment of Isaiah 59 is connected with the crushing of something. This correlates to what he was told in Genesis 3 15. In the Progressive reading of Isaiah 59, if the crushing of the serpent refers to the new law of righteousness by faith and of Christ's work on the cross, then the subsequent material and Isaiah 59 also is associated with that time period.
it is in that chapter that we learn that those who desired to escape the evil, of continuation in the sacrifice, and of its continued inference of sin Karma and who would leave Judaism would make themselves a prey. This is partly because they, like Jesus example were Lambs offered to the slaughter. As we continue in the chapter it's saying that it displeased him and he saw that there was no man to defend or deliver them. So his right arm meaning his arm of work brought Deliverance and salvation to these followers of him. In Deuteronomy 32 which is a sister chapter 2 Isaiah 59, in verse 42 it says that he would accomplish his Vengeance and protection through the leaders of Israel's enemies, ie the Romans. And this is what occurred. The Christians left Judea just before the wars began and during the wars and joined with others in the mountains east of decapolis which was not Roman territory at the time, while the Romans Swept Away the city and the people not only in 70 AD but then again in 135 ad. In doing this they preserved the Believers and followers of Christ from continued persecution and possible extermination. The 135 ad conflict was noted by secular historians to make a greater distinction between Christian and Jewel since the Christians again flood the city in preparation for the Slaughters. But in this time the Romans experienced as much loss as the Jews losing up to three Legions.
There remains a certain amount of divine, Supernatural and angelic protection of life for those who abide in the way of peace and Jesus.
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Endtimesdeut32
Member
