Angels in heaven both fallen or unfallen are not incorporeal spirits

[Alfred Persson]

Protestants continue to propagate Catholic error till this day, confusing disembodied spirits with angels still corporeal in the dimension of heaven:

The clear pronouncement of Holy Scripture that the angels are spirits (pneumata; Matt. 8:16; 12:45. Luke 7:21; 8:2; 11:26. Acts 19:12; 23:8. Eph. 6:12. Heb. 1:14), who do not marry (Matt. 22:30), are immortal (Luke 20:35–36) and invisible (Col. 1:16), may be “legion” in a restricted space (Luke 8:30), and like spirits, have no flesh and bones (Luke 24:39).-Bavinck, H., Bolt, J., Vriend, J. (2004). Reformed Dogmatics: God and Creation (Vol. 2, p. 456). Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic.

The argument is a massive hasty generalization fallacy that lumps into one basket Angels still corporeal in heaven (Rev. 12:7-9) and the "spirits of demons" (Rev. 16:14) who wander the earth desperately seeking corporeality possessing insects (2Kings 1:2), animals and men (Lk. 8:27-32; Compare "nakedness" 2 Cor. 5:2-4).

Whenever Scripture depicts angels eating and drinking (Gen. 18:8) cognitive dissonance hides the revelation, the text is veiled by a theory angels materialize physical forms when entering our realm. That theory is a massive violation of Occam's razor, not a hint of its truth can be found in scripture. Rather than a change in corporeality, there is an "opening", some kind of vortex or portal one must step through to traverse the realms:

12 Then he dreamed, and behold, a ladder was set up on the earth, and its top reached to heaven; and there the angels of God were ascending and descending on it...

17 And he was afraid and said, "How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven!"(Gen. 28:12, 17 NKJ)

11 Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (2 Ki. 2:11 NKJ)

When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. (Matt. 3:16 NKJ)

And He said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man." (Jn. 1:51-2:1 NKJ)

After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this." (Rev. 4:1 NKJ)

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. (Rev. 19:11 NKJ)

Although the angel of the LORD was cloaked with invisibility when He stepped into our realm to sit under a tree, nothing suggests a change in corporeality:

11 Now the Angel of the LORD came and sat under the terebinth tree which was in Ophrah, which belonged to Joash the Abiezrite, while his son Gideon threshed wheat in the winepress, in order to hide it from the Midianites.
12 And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him, and said to him, "The LORD is with you, you mighty man of valor!" (Jdg. 6:11-12 NKJ)

Angels war among themselves (Jdg. 5:20; Dan. 10:13, 20; Rev. 12:7), use weapons to kill (2 Chron. 32:21), (Num. 22:23) and fly in ships (Ezek. 1:4) and travel in craft rolling on powered wheels (Ezek. 1:15-21). Spirits don't do these things, physical beings do.

Our LORD sits in heaven in resurrected humanity (Heb. 8:1), how then can any Christian doubt one can be physical in heaven? Christ "stood in their midst" (John 20:19-20, 26-27) without passing through doors or walls like a spirit. To prove corporeality Christ commands they touch His body, declares He has flesh and bones and then even eats a fish (Luke 24:36-43). If Christ "materialized a physical form" He deceived them, it was not truly His hands nor the print of the nails (John 20:25-27). As Christ never deceives anyone, its possible to be physical in the TELEIOS "heavenly realm".

Nothing about New Jerusalem coming down from heaven suggests it is not an actual physical city. No doubt Angels built it (Rev. 21:10-27). If it were impossible Paul be in heaven physically, he would have known he was "out of his body" while in third heaven (1 Cor. 12:2, 4).

Jesus said angels in heaven don't marry (Mat. 22:30), He did not say disobedient angels on earth can't marry.

The hapax legomen λειτουργικὰ πνεύματα "ministering spirits" in Hebrews 1:14 does not contradict angels are physical because angelic nature is not being discussed---their subordination to the Son is the topic.

"Ministering spirits" is figurative, referring back to Heb. 1:7

And of the angels He says: "Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire." (Heb. 1:7 NKJ)

If angels were spirits God would not have to "make His angels spirits."

This is figurative meaning:

Who makes his angels fast as the wind,

And His ministers as terrible as consuming fire to all who oppose God.

Hebrews 1:7 is being used in synecdoche in Hebrews 1:14 , the part referring the whole conveying Angels are "fast as the wind, terrible as a consuming fire when protecting God's people ministering to the heirs of salvation."

Paul as a "Pharisee the son of a Pharisee" believed "spirits" and "angels" are different entities (Acts. 23:6-7):

6 But when Paul perceived that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, "Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee; concerning the hope and resurrection of the dead I am being judged!"
7 And when he had said this, a dissension arose between the Pharisees and the Sadducees; and the assembly was divided.
8 For Sadducees say that there is no resurrection-- and no angel or spirit; but the Pharisees confess both.
9 Then there arose a loud outcry. And the scribes of the Pharisees' party arose and protested, saying, "We find no evil in this man; but if a spirit or an angel has spoken to him, let us not fight against God." (Acts 23:6-9 NKJ)

"Spirits of Demons" implies these formerly corporeal spirits are now disembodied:

For they are spirits of demons [πνεύματα δαιμονων], performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. (Rev. 16:14 NKJ)

For more like this:

Origin of Satan and Demons | End Time News

Satan is the head of the demons and led their rebellion against God; he now leads them in propagating evil in the world. According to Scripture, Satan was a particularly powerful and high-ranking angel who led one third of the angelic host to rebel against God (Eph 2:2; Rev 12:1–12). Satan is a...

endtimenews.net

Satan’s Angels are cast out of Heaven Twice? | End Time News

Satan's angels are cast out twice: Angels are cast out by Satan (Rev. 12:4), Satan and his angels are cast out by Michael (Rev. 12:9-11). The prophecy is "telescoped" skipping over the time separating the Flood of Noah's Day and the End Time Seven Year "Week" revealed in the Apocalypse. As the...

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Nephilim Fallen Angels and the Sons of God | End Time News

The Nephilim: Satan's Fallen Angels 1 Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3 Then the LORD said,

endtimenews.net

 

[Alfred Persson]

The Fourth Lateran Council separates angelic from corporeal natures, and Petavius rightly characterises the contrary opinion as “proximate to heresy.” At the same time, angels are capable of assuming bodies; to which they are for the time intimately united; which they move and which they use to represent either their own invisible nature or the attributes of God. Passages of Scripture, which imply this, will readily occur to the reader.-Addis, W. E., & Arnold, T. (1887). In A Catholic Dictionary (Sixth Edition, With Additions, p. 25). New York: The Catholic Publication Society Co.

Surprisingly Protestants agree without considering how absurd it is angels materialize "throw away bodies", living organisms animated by the spirit of life.

That is an act of creation only Yahweh God can do:

`Now see that I, even I, am He, And there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand. (Deut. 32:39 NKJ)

As often is the case, the Catholic Magisterium didn't have one scripture in support of its massive violation of Occam's Razor, and common sense. Yet, no one questions the absurdity. That has consequences. When Satan and angels (Nephilim) appear among men again as in the past---physically.... Christendom will be "blindsided", no one warning the public this would happen again as it did in the Days of Noah.

 

[hawkman]

Angels war among themselves (Jdg. 5:20; Dan. 10:13, 20; Rev. 12:7), use weapons to kill (2 Chron. 32:21), (Num. 22:23) and fly in ships (Ezek. 1:4) and travel in craft rolling on powered wheels (Ezek. 1:15-21). Spirits don't do these things, physical beings do.

Did any of these angels die or bleed ?

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Angels war among themselves (Jdg. 5:20; Dan. 10:13, 20; Rev. 12:7), use weapons to kill (2 Chron. 32:21), (Num. 22:23) and fly in ships (Ezek. 1:4) and travel in craft rolling on powered wheels (Ezek. 1:15-21). Spirits don't do these things, physical beings do.

So I had to look at Ezekiel 1:4 & 15-21 just out of curiosity; I did not see the word "ships" or "craft rolling on powered wheels". Why would an Angel need any kind of "ship" or "craft" when they have wings?

Did any of these angels die or bleed ?

At birth every Angel inherits some of the "traits and abilities" of the Father; as long as Father does not take those "gifts" away, every Angel is immortal (eternal).

 

[Alfred Persson]

Did any of these angels die or bleed ?

Probably, don't know. War usually makes warriors bleed, or is "bloodless war" possible?

And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, (Rev. 12:7 NKJ)

The Antichrist Beast, empowered by Satanic technology, is able to bring down some of God's angelic army:

Then I heard a holy one speaking. Another holy one said to the one who was speaking, "To what period of time does the vision pertain– this vision concerning the daily sacrifice and the destructive act of rebellion and the giving over of both the sanctuary and army to be trampled?"

As angels like butter, milk, and beef, eating it under a tree, it wouldn't be inconsistent their swords actually can cut and injure fellow angels:

So he took butter and milk and the calf which he had prepared, an d set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree as they ate. (Gen. 18:8 NKJ)

That angels were corporeal (or ethereal) in some way, was debated by some in the church until the Catholic Magisterial foot stomped all discussion.

I reject Catholic eisegesis. And its medieval meta physics springing from Greek and other pagan ideas about angels.

 

[Alfred Persson]

So I had to look at Ezekiel 1:4 & 15-21 just out of curiosity; I did not see the word "ships" or "craft rolling on powered wheels". Why would an Angel need any kind of "ship" or "craft" when they have wings?


At birth every Angel inherits some of the "traits and abilities" of the Father; as long as Father does not take those "gifts" away, every Angel is immortal (eternal).

It wasn't a bird, plane or superman Ezekiel saw descending onto the earth:

Then I looked, and behold, a whirlwind was coming out of the north, a great cloud with raging fire engulfing itself; and brightness was all around it and radiating out of its midst like the color of amber, out of the midst of the fire. (Ezek. 1:4 NKJ)

That would be a "craft" of some kind, would it not? Something like a cloud with raging fire, bright light radiating out?

It had "wheels" and moved using them:

16 The appearance of the wheels and their workings was like the color of beryl, and all four had the same likeness. The appearance of their workings was, as it were, a wheel in the middle of a wheel.
17 When they moved, they went toward any one of four directions; they did not turn aside when they went.
(Ezek. 1:16-17 NKJ)


Its reasonable that Angels would need technology to get around just like we do, being finite creatures.

So you interpret their "wings" literally? If their wings are literal, how can some entertain them unaware they are angels?

Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels. (Heb. 13:2 NKJ)


Wings in OT imagery are figurative of flight, speed, even loving care:

4 I will abide in Your tabernacle forever; I will trust in the shelter of Your wings. Selah (Ps. 61:4 NKJ)

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels. (Heb. 13:2 NKJ)

Good quote; if only people knew the truth.

As for what was seen; no one ever said an Angel did not know how to make a grand entrance to any engagement. That does not mean "vehicle" of any kind. I'm pretty sure the Bible mentions a "man" riding a white horse with a sword coming out of his mouth; why not put him in a tank instead of a horse. Nothing is at it seems.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Good quote; if only people knew the truth.

As for what was seen; no one ever said an Angel did not know how to make a grand entrance to any engagement. That does not mean "vehicle" of any kind. I'm pretty sure the Bible mentions a "man" riding a white horse with a sword coming out of his mouth; why not put him in a tank instead of a horse. Nothing is at it seems.

That is a valid objection, language is essentially figurative. Symbolic images. I admit my hermeneutic seems "outlandish", especially to all trained in exegesis, insisting words mean only what they meant to the author.

But here is an obvious exception to that otherwise sound rule, and it occurs in prophetic texts:

It grew so big it reached the army (06635 צָבָא tsaba’) of heaven, and it brought about the fall of some of the army (06635 צָבָא tsaba’) and some of the stars (03556 כּוֹכָב kowkab) to the ground, where it trampled them. (Dan. 8:10 NET)

And I, Daniel, fainted and was sick for days; afterward I arose and went about the king’s business. I was astonished by the vision, but no one understood it. (Dan. 8:27 NKJ)

Why was Daniel “astonished” by this vision? Recall God specially gifted Daniel to understand enigma and vision (Dan. 2:47; 4:8-9; 5:11-12). So why couldn’t he understand this vision, why didn’t his fellow experts in scripture interpretation “understand it”.

Looked at from another angle. modern commentators claim the “little Horn” is Antiochus and the “army of God” or “stars” may be Israel’s saints, priests or chief rulers.

But none of them explain why that scene would “astonish” Daniel, who after all is living IN exile, the Temple destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar who defeated Israel's army.

How could the vision of such a man "astonish" Daniel, and perplex him AND all his fellow experts in the scriptures?

Obviously, Daniel is not seeing Antiochus defile the Temple as modern commentators interpret, he would easily have understood that.

So what was he seeing?

8 Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, “My lord, what shall be the end of these things?”
9 And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10 “Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand. (Dan. 12:8-10 NKJ)

As Daniel was specially gifted by God to unseal sealed words, and open them up to understanding, it follows this isn't a matter of "special revelation by God the Holy Spirit."

Something else will unseal the meaning. The clue in the text is "in the time of the end" the "wise" (07919 שָׂכַל sakal) or "prudent, precise thinkers" will understand. Its not a matter of special revelation, its a matter of what we call "critical thinking" today. Having ruled out special revelation as the "unsealer", what is left are "the prophesied events themselves will unseal the words".

Events will unseal the words in the time of the end. As the prophecy is fulfilled, the "wise" would connect the dots.

Scripture figuratively uses stars to represent angels and today we know ships in the sky can appear like stars. Alexandar the great claimed "shields" attacked his armies.

Evidently, "stars" or angels also attacked Commander Sisera:

They fought from the heavens; The stars from their courses fought against Sisera. (Jdg. 5:20 NKJ)

When we read the Antichrist is empowered by Satan, and in a "wing" he rises up over cities and rains down fire upon them, we realize its in a craft of some sort. Notice how this commentator, writing before the UFO craze, interprets Daniel 9:27

And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator." (Dan. 9:27 ESV)

"on the wings of abomination he comes desolating." עַל כָּנָף can, without ingenuity, be rendered in no other way than on wings. שִׁקּוּצִים signifies not acts of abomination, but objects of abomination... But from such passages as Deut. 32:11, Ex. 19:4, and Ps. 18:11, we perceive the sense in which wings are attributed to the שִׁקּוּצִים, the idolatrous objects. In the first of these passages (Deut. 32:11), wings, the wings of an eagle, are attributed to God, because He is the power which raises up Israel, and lifting it up, and carrying it throughout its history, guides it over the earth. In P. 18 wings are attributed to the wind, because the wind is contemplated as the power which carries out the will of God throughout the kingdom of nature. "Thus in this passage wings are attributed to the שִׁקּוּצִים, idol-objects, and to idolatry with its abominations, because that shall be the power which lifts upwards the destroyer and desolater, carries him, and moves with him over the earth to lay waste" -Keil, C. F., Delitzsch, F. (2002). Commentary on the Old Testament [1866 first edition]. (Da 9:27). Peabody, MA: Hendrickson.

 

[hawkman]

Probably, don't know. War usually makes warriors bleed, or is "bloodless war" possible?

Yes "bloodless war " is possible when it is spirits fighting the war against each other .
Angels are spirits .
Alfred Persson can you offer any documentation , scripture about dying or bleeding angels ?

Hebrews 1

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Psalms 104​

1 Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.

2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:

4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

When we read the Antichrist is empowered by Satan

How can Satan empower anything; Satan is not God. Although I would say the antiChrist rage against Satan and his evil will lend to these events; he will kill the "devil" that popped up in his house. God will empower him to accomplish this task.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Yes "bloodless war " is possible when it is spirits fighting the war against each other .
Angels are spirits .
Alfred Persson can you offer any documentation , scripture about dying or bleeding angels ?

Hebrews 1

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Psalms 104​

1 Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.

2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:

4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

I addressed that in the OP. If they were spirits God wouldn't have to "maketh his angels spirits", it was already a fact. Therefore, the phrase is figurative for making His angels swift and unstoppable, a flame of consuming fire to His enemies.

 

[Alfred Persson]

How can Satan empower anything; Satan is not God. Although I would say the antiChrist rage against Satan and his evil will lend to these events; he will kill the "devil" that popped up in his house. God will empower him to accomplish this task.

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. (2 Thess. 2:9-10 NKJ)

His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power; He shall destroy fearfully, And shall prosper and thrive; He shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people. (Dan. 8:24 NKJ)

He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. (Rev. 13:15 NKJ)

So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?" (Rev. 13:4 NKJ)

 

[hawkman]

I addressed that in the OP. If they were spirits God wouldn't have to "maketh his angels spirits", it was already a fact. Therefore, the phrase is figurative for making His angels swift and unstoppable, a flame of consuming fire to His enemies.

Here is the question again , I see no answer in the OP .

Did any of these angels die or bleed ?

Alfred Persson can you offer any documentation , scripture about dying or bleeding angels ?

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

(2 Thess. 2:9-10 NKJ)

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10 NKJV

I take that as a liar is coming; after the Father of Lies, and that would be the False Prophet. If Satan had ever been allowed a son; that one would certainly qualify. You can't take bits and pieces of the scriptures; "write your own version" and set that as the truth.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Protestants continue to propagate Catholic error till this day, confusing disembodied spirits with angels still corporeal in the dimension of heaven:


The argument is a massive hasty generalization fallacy that lumps into one basket Angels still corporeal in heaven (Rev. 12:7-9) and the "spirits of demons" (Rev. 16:14) who wander the earth desperately seeking corporeality possessing insects (2Kings 1:2), animals and men (Lk. 8:27-32; Compare "nakedness" 2 Cor. 5:2-4).

Why would the Lord use demonic spirits who attained corporeality on earth to destroy Sodom for it's sin

Gen 19:1
And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

Gen 19:2
And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.

Gen 19:13
For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Here is the question again , I see no answer in the OP .

Did any of these angels die or bleed ?

Alfred Persson can you offer any documentation , scripture about dying or bleeding angels ?

That's a different question, which I answered "don't know."

Scripture describes angels as warring against each other. That implies they can harm each other, does it not?

12 Then he said to me, "Do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard; and I have come because of your words.
13 "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia.
...

20 Then he said, "Do you know why I have come to you? And now I must return to fight with the prince of Persia; and when I have gone forth, indeed the prince of Greece will come. (Dan. 10:12-13, 20 NKJ)

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought,
8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (Rev. 12:7-9 NKJ)

Scripture implies they can physically, and become "disembodied spirits". But you ignored that proof:

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. (Rev. 16:13-14 NKJ)


Spirits OF demons, not "demon spirits".

It is obvious to anyone open to Bible revelation there is a difference between unclean spirits roaming tombs possessing people, and angels who appear bearing messages from God.

4 "Please let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree.
5 "And I will bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh your hearts. After that you may pass by, inasmuch as you have come to your servant." They said, "Do as you have said."
6 So Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah and said, "Quickly, make ready three measures of fine meal; knead it and make cakes."
7 And Abraham ran to the herd, took a tender and good calf, gave it to a young man, and he hastened to prepare it.
8 So he took butter and milk and the calf which he had prepared, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree as they ate. (Gen. 18:4-8 NKJ)

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Scripture describes angels as warring against each other. That implies they can harm each other, does it not?

Scripture does not give all the information; if Father had revealed all the truth from the beginning, the Story of Man would have been pointless. Angel's do fight each other; and there has been one War, such as will never be allowed again. While Angel's can inflict great bodily harm on each other; they could not kill each other unless Father took away the "gift of immortality", which has been done.

 

[hawkman]

Scripture describes angels as warring against each other. That implies they can harm each other, does it not?

The battle is a supernatural battle between spirits , the "harm" will be something beyond out understanding IF there is any .

Scripture implies they can physically, and become "disembodied spirits". But you ignored that proof:

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. (Rev. 16:13-14 NKJ)


Spirits OF demons, not "demon spirits".

Who is the "they" you are talking about ?

It is obvious to anyone open to Bible revelation there is a difference between unclean spirits roaming tombs possessing people, and angels who appear bearing messages from God.

Yes , I know this Alfred Persson I am right there with you on demons are not angels fallen or otherwise .

 

[Consecrated Life]

What does a spirit look like when it stands up ?

Dan 12:1
¶
"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: "

 

[Alfred Persson]

The battle is a supernatural battle between spirits , the "harm" will be something beyond out understanding IF there is any .

Who is the "they" you are talking about ?

Yes , I know this Alfred Persson I am right there with you on demons are not angels fallen or otherwise .

Show me the scripture that says angels materialize disposable bodies to use on earth.

How do spirits harm spirits, show me the verse of scripture.

That's like wind hurting wind.

Both the Greek and Hebrew words for "spirit" are also translated "wind" "breath". Prove wind can hurt wind and you win the argument.

Show me where angels can create living bodies, make them alive.

Only God kills and makes alive:

`Now see that I, even I, am He, And there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand. (Deut. 32:39 NKJ)