Annihilation

[Bubba]

I have recently come to the conclusion that Annihilation is taught in Scripture. For nearly 30 years I have believed in conscious eternal punishment. It is actually refreshing now when I read Scripture, knowing that we really do have a loving God who isn’t going to punish the unbeliever for eternity. Some suggested readings are Fudge’s book “Hell: A Consuming Fire†and Samuele Bacchiocchi’s book “Hell: Eternal Torment or Annihilationâ€Â. I do not believe in “soul sleep†for the believer, I do believe the wicked are resurrected on the “Last Dayâ€Â. I also believe that the wicked are tormented for a period of time, depending on the severity of the individual’s sin.


Beza

 

[SputnikBoy]

I have recently come to the conclusion that Annihilation is taught in Scripture. For nearly 30 years I have believed in conscious eternal punishment. It is actually refreshing now when I read Scripture, knowing that we really do have a loving God who isn’t going to punish the unbeliever for eternity. Some suggested readings are Fudge’s book “Hell: A Consuming Fire†and Samuele Bacchiocchi’s book “Hell: Eternal Torment or Annihilationâ€Â.

Yes, I do believe there IS an awakening among Christians these days in regard to annihilation teaching.

I do not believe in “soul sleep†for the believer,

I'm not sure WHY you don't believe that the dead (righteous or unrighteous) are presently 'sleeping' in their graves since the scriptural teachings on this issue are far clearer that those pertaining to annihilation.

I do believe the wicked are resurrected on the “Last Dayâ€Â.

But doesn't the Bible say that 'the dead in Christ (the righteous) will rise from their graves on the day of the Lord'? This implies two things (1) the righteous dead ARE INDEED in their graves prior to Jesus' return, and (2) the unrighteous dead are NOT resurrected from their graves at this point.

I also believe that the wicked are tormented for a period of time, depending on the severity of the individual’s sin.

Hmmm ...the jury is still out for me on this one. The Bible DOES appear to say this, however.

 

[kwag_myers]

I have recently come to the conclusion that Annihilation is taught in Scripture. For nearly 30 years I have believed in conscious eternal punishment. It is actually refreshing now when I read Scripture, knowing that we really do have a loving God who isn’t going to punish the unbeliever for eternity. Some suggested readings are Fudge’s book “Hell: A Consuming Fire†and Samuele Bacchiocchi’s book “Hell: Eternal Torment or Annihilationâ€Â. I do not believe in “soul sleep†for the believer, I do believe the wicked are resurrected on the “Last Dayâ€Â. I also believe that the wicked are tormented for a period of time, depending on the severity of the individual’s sin.


Beza

You wouldn't care to show me where this is in the Bible would you? Because if it isn't in the Bible, it's man's philosophy, which is another way of saying, "Doctrine of Demons".

Suggested reading:

1 Corinthians 15:51, "...not all sleep..." indicating that some do, and some do not.

1 Thessalonians 4:14, "...them also which sleep in Jesus..."

Revelation 20:10-15, "...lake of fire...for ever and ever..." Sounds pretty permanent to me.

I agree with the "loving God" part. But He is also a just God (Revelation 15:3), and if your name ain't in the book of life, no more chances. This is it kids, Jesus now or lake of fire later. I don't care what those other authors say. I only care what God says.

Speaking of those other authors, are they "...turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness..."? (Jude 1:4)? Are they teaching Jesus as the only Salvation (2 Corinthians 4:5)?

 

[Bubba]

I'm not sure WHY you don't believe that the dead (righteous or unrighteous) are presently 'sleeping' in their graves since the scriptural teachings on this issue are far clearer that those pertaining to annihilation.

The clear teaching seems to be that the unbeliever is soul sleeping, where as the believer is with the Lord (2Cor. 5:8,Lk. 23:43,46, Phil.1:23, Rev. 6:9). Also, the Tranfiguration suggest that the O.T. believer is also in heaven.

But doesn't the Bible say that 'the dead in Christ (the righteous) will rise from their graves on the day of the Lord'? This implies two things (1) the righteous dead ARE INDEED in their graves prior to Jesus' return, and (2) the unrighteous dead are NOT resurrected from their graves at this point.

Being a Amillennialist, I believe the "The Last Day, The 2nd Coming, Final Judgment, The Rapture, That Great Day, The Day of the Lord, New Heaven and Earth" all happen together.
Beza

 

[Bubba]

"Suggested reading:

1 Corinthians 15:51, "...not all sleep..." indicating that some do, and some do not.

1 Thessalonians 4:14, "...them also which sleep in Jesus..."

Revelation 20:10-15, "...lake of fire...for ever and ever..." Sounds pretty permanent to..."
_________________

I believe Scripture does imply that the believer goes to be with the Lord at physical death, where as the unbeliever seems to be left in the grave until the Day of the Lord (2nd Coming, judgment and etc).
In regards to Rev. 20:10-15, you will read in verse 14, that “death and hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And in verse 15, “and anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.†I believe actual death (no more dying) the place of the dead (hades) and all unbelievers are consumed by the lake of fire, which is a metaphor for God’s final judgment as the Consuming Fire of Heb.12:29. Rev. 20:10, if taken as a literal statement, then one would have to surmise that only two entities are actually suffering forever. Most people, would say that the “Beast†and the “false prophet, are metaphors for man-made establishments and religions and if that is the case, how do ideologies and concepts suffer night and day? Also, according to Scripture, there is no more night in day in Rev. 22:23. John uses smoke, as a sign of God’s judgment that will be forever (Rev. 18:8, Rev. 19:3). In the O.T., you have ante-types of what is to come, as in Gen.19:28, as compared to Jude 5-7 and Isaiah 34:8-10 as compared to Rev.20:10. Note the bigger truth has not changed, in that the unbeliever will be destroyed completely. I have noticed, that with the “traditionalistâ€Â, they have a small amount of verses that seem to say that there will be eternal punishment, yet, the bulk of the verses in both the O.T. and N.T., which address words like “death, destruction and perish†are not left to their clear meaning; check out John 3:16, John 5:28-29, Romans 6:23 2 Thess. 1:9 and 1John 5:12.

Beza

 

[SputnikBoy]

I have recently come to the conclusion that Annihilation is taught in Scripture. For nearly 30 years I have believed in conscious eternal punishment. It is actually refreshing now when I read Scripture, knowing that we really do have a loving God who isn’t going to punish the unbeliever for eternity. Some suggested readings are Fudge’s book “Hell: A Consuming Fire†and Samuele Bacchiocchi’s book “Hell: Eternal Torment or Annihilationâ€Â. I do not believe in “soul sleep†for the believer, I do believe the wicked are resurrected on the “Last Dayâ€Â. I also believe that the wicked are tormented for a period of time, depending on the severity of the individual’s sin.


Beza

You wouldn't care to show me where this is in the Bible would you? Because if it isn't in the Bible, it's man's philosophy, which is another way of saying, "Doctrine of Demons".

Just be sure that YOU have scriptural savvy before you start bandying around the term 'doctrine of demons', kwag.

Suggested reading:

1 Corinthians 15:51, "...not all sleep..." indicating that some do, and some do not.

What Paul is saying here - plainly and simply - is that SOME, millions in fact, will still be alive when Jesus returns. For instance, if Jesus returned right now, kwag, you and I would still be alive. We haven't yet died or, figuratively, 'slept'. And that's what that scripture means. And, it says 'We will not all sleep', but we will all be changed ...' Read the rest of the text and you'll see that it's referring to the dead and the living at the time of Jesus' coming. The dead are clothed with the imperishable (they will NEVER DIE AGAIN) and the living mortals are clothed with immortality (they will NEVER DIE, PERIOD).

1 Thessalonians 4:14, "...them also which sleep in Jesus..."

This is talking about the righteous who have died and are presently in their graves awaiting the resurrection at the coming of Jesus.

Revelation 20:10-15, "...lake of fire...for ever and ever..." Sounds pretty permanent to me.

That's because you're taking this passage literally and are not taking into consideration the symbolism of the scripture. The permanent part of this issue is that the unrighteous will be dead (destroyed) PERMANENTLY. Something can only be destroyed once ...not over and over and over forever. John 3:16 tells us that the unbeliever will 'perish' ...'perish' means 'cease to exist'.

I agree with the "loving God" part. But He is also a just God (Revelation 15:3), and if your name ain't in the book of life, no more chances. This is it kids, Jesus now or lake of fire later. I don't care what those other authors say. I only care what God says.

That's right, God IS just. That's why God will NOT impose an infinite penalty (forever and ever) on someone for finite (a specific period of time) offenses. In other words, EVERLASTING punishment imposed on someone by God for just 70-odd years of their not having accepted Jesus is hardly just, now is it? If anything - and I don't believe this either but state it simply to make the point - 70-odd years of punishment would be much more just ...y'know, the punishment fitting the crime, so to speak.

Speaking of those other authors, are they "...turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness..."? (Jude 1:4)? Are they teaching Jesus as the only Salvation (2 Corinthians 4:5)?

I guess that's for beza to answer.

 

[Bubba]

Sputnik Boy writes:

“1 Thessalonians 4:14, "...them also which sleep in Jesus..."

â€ÂThis is talking about the righteous who have died and are presently in their graves awaiting the resurrection at the coming of Jesus.â€Â

To me Sputnik Boy the verse negates soul sleep for the believer who has gone on before us, because these are those who are presently with our Lord and will ascend with Him at the Second Advent (verse 16) and the “dead in Christ†is referring to the resurrected bodies that those in heaven have not received yet (Rev. 6:9-10 and 1Cor. 15:35-44), Yet I could be wrong.

Kway myer writes:
“Speaking of those other authors, are they "...turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness..."? (Jude 1:4)? Are they teaching Jesus as the only Salvation (2 Corinthians 4:5)?â€Â

I believe Fudge is a Baptist and Bacchiocchi is a 7th Day Adventist and other then their arminian view of salvation, they probably would be accepted by most in Christendom as not “turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness†and “teachig Jesus as the only salvationâ€Â

Beza

 

[PHIL121]

You make some interesting conclusions about people on this forum , beza, considering you just joined.

 

[kwag_myers]

Just be sure that YOU have scriptural savvy before you start bandying around the term 'doctrine of demons', kwag.

Don't start with me on this one. I'll match my 40+ years of theological study against your naive assumptions any day.

1 Timothy 4:1-2, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;".

Colossians 2:8, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

2 Corinthians 11:3-4, "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him]."

What Paul is saying here - plainly and simply - is that SOME, millions in fact, will still be alive when Jesus returns. For instance, if Jesus returned right now, kwag, you and I would still be alive.

Thank you for explaining the obvious. Here, let me draw you a picture;

Beza: "I do not believe in “soul sleep†for the believer,"
Kwag: supplies scripture proving there is indeed sleep for the believer.
SputnikBoy: Attacks Kwag even though they both agree on this issue! (SOMEBODY is missing the love of Jesus in their heart).

Beza,
I don't care if the Beast and False Prophet are real people or not. In response to your statement, "...the wicked are tormented for a period of time..." I direct your attention to "...for ever and ever..." in Revelation 20:10. Revelation 20:15 clearly states that those who's names are not written in the Book of Life get the lake of fire, too.

Something can only be destroyed once ...not over and over and over forever. John 3:16 tells us that the unbeliever will 'perish' ...'perish' means 'cease to exist'.

Again with your naive assumptions. Strongs:

John 3:16, perish (Greek: apollumi {ap-ol'-loo-mee})

1) to destroy

a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin

b) render useless

c) to kill

d) to declare that one must be put to death

e) metaph. to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell

f) to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed

2) to destroy

a) to lose

Next time, do your homework, SputnikBoy! Or do you think that the english translation is superior to the original text? (I sure hope you're not another one of those "The original King James is the only true translation" idiots).

As for Fudge the Baptist, I grew up Baptist and I know their doctrines well. They are void of spiritual revelation and are completely soul oriented, i.e., they have no spiritual content. It's all intellectual. Any doctrine that comes from the Baptists I dismiss immediately. I choose to walk by the Spirit.

Referring back to Colossians 2:8, can you tell me how this teaching exhorts Jesus? Because, if it doesn't exhort Jesus, then it's a false doctrine (according to Colossians 2:8).

 

[Bubba]

"I don't care if the Beast and False Prophet are real people or not. In response to your statement, "...the wicked are tormented for a period of time..." I direct your attention to "...for ever and ever..." in Revelation 20:10. Revelation 20:15 clearly states that those who's names are not written in the Book of Life get the lake of fire, too."

Kwag myer, I think you miss my point, in Rev. 20:10. Only there, do you have the “Beast and the False Profitâ€Â, being tormented forever and ever, if you take the verse literal, which I do not believe you can. The beginning of the chapter you have Satan bound by a chain for a thousand years, is that literal (in that angels are spirit creatures)? As for the unbelievers, I do believe that they are thrown in the “lake of fire†and are destroyed. And the smoke of their torment is an eternal reminder of God’s judgment, as was Edom in Isaiah 34 and supported by Rev.19:3.

Beza

 

[Bubba]

You make some interesting conclusions about people on this forum , beza, considering you just joined.

Phil121, what are you referring to? I am missing something here.
Beza

 

[guibox]

beza,

Congratulations on discovering the truth of a very important doctrine! I believe that Dr. Bacchiocchi's book is entitled "Resurrection or Immortality?" however. It is an excellent book and one cannot come away from it ignorant any longer. I haven't read Fudge's book but I hear it is also very good.

These two discussion threads might interest you:

Annihilation of the Wicked Part I

Annihilation of the Wicked Part II

I can't understand how you could read Bacchiocchi's book and believe in annihilation but not in the fact that the righteous are in their graves awaiting resurrection? As Sputnik pointed out, the second is much easier to prove then the first.

Check out these threads on the subjects as well, beza!

Proof texts for immortal soul?

Resurrection not immortality

Welcome to the forum! :wink: [/quote]

 

[SputnikBoy]

Just be sure that YOU have scriptural savvy before you start bandying around the term 'doctrine of demons', kwag.

Don't start with me on this one. I'll match my 40+ years of theological study against your naive assumptions any day.

Now don't be so testy, kwag, this isn't a theoligical test. It's just that the term 'doctrine of devils' is used far too often on this forum merely because someone might not agree with the viewpoint of another.

1 Timothy 4:1-2, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;".

Is this what you feel that I'm doing? A little dramatic, don't you think?

Colossians 2:8, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

What on earth does this have to do with me or the thread?

2 Corinthians 11:3-4, "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him]."

And now the oscar for drama goes to ....

What Paul is saying here - plainly and simply - is that SOME, millions in fact, will still be alive when Jesus returns. For instance, if Jesus returned right now, kwag, you and I would still be alive.

Thank you for explaining the obvious. Here, let me draw you a picture;

Beza: "I do not believe in “soul sleep†for the believer,"
Kwag: supplies scripture proving there is indeed sleep for the believer.
SputnikBoy: Attacks Kwag even though they both agree on this issue!

Well, it was hardly an attack. In any event, if zeal got the better of me and I misunderstood your intent, then I humbly apologize.

(SOMEBODY is missing the love of Jesus in their heart).

I wonder who that could be? ;-)

Something can only be destroyed once ...not over and over and over forever. John 3:16 tells us that the unbeliever will 'perish' ...'perish' means 'cease to exist'.

Again with your naive assumptions. Strongs:

John 3:16, perish (Greek: apollumi {ap-ol'-loo-mee})

1) to destroy

a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin

b) render useless

c) to kill

d) to declare that one must be put to death

e) metaph. to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell

f) to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed

2) to destroy

a) to lose

Next time, do your homework, SputnikBoy! Or do you think that the english translation is superior to the original text? (I sure hope you're not another one of those "The original King James is the only true translation" idiots).

Head up, chest in ...now breathe deeply, kwag.

Well, if I had my 'druthers' I think I'd opt for the original KJV because of its relative accuracy on all scriptural matters. just kidding, kwag! I'm just giving you a hard time. :turn-l: Actually, I don't have any particular preferences in regard to Bible translations.

As for Fudge the Baptist, I grew up Baptist and I know their doctrines well. They are void of spiritual revelation and are completely soul oriented, i.e., they have no spiritual content. It's all intellectual. Any doctrine that comes from the Baptists I dismiss immediately. I choose to walk by the Spirit.

It's about time the Baptists had a turn ...gives the SDAs a break. :wink:

Referring back to Colossians 2:8, can you tell me how this teaching exhorts Jesus? Because, if it doesn't exhort Jesus, then it's a false doctrine (according to Colossians 2:8).

Which teaching are we referring to here, kwag ...I've kinda lost my way on this thread.

 

[kwag_myers]

Now don't be so testy, kwag, this isn't a theoligical test. It's just that the term 'doctrine of devils' is used far too often on this forum merely because someone might not agree with the viewpoint of another.

Merely offering the scriptural basis of my accusation. Isn't that what you asked for?

As for your comments on 1 Timothy 4:1-2, Colossians 2:8, and 2 Corinthians 11:3-4, only a person full of themselves would think that I was speaking about them. Again, this is the scriptural basis for my "doctrine of demons" comment. So get over yourself.

Referring back to Colossians 2:8, can you tell me how this teaching exhorts Jesus? Because, if it doesn't exhort Jesus, then it's a false doctrine (according to Colossians 2:8).

Which teaching are we referring to here, kwag ...I've kinda lost my way on this thread.

The one about Annihilation, the title of this thread. What does this Annihilation theory teach us about Christ?

 

[guibox]

Again with your naive assumptions. Strongs:

John 3:16, perish (Greek: apollumi {ap-ol'-loo-mee})

1) to destroy

a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin

b) render useless

c) to kill

d) to declare that one must be put to death

e) metaph. to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell

f) to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed

2) to destroy

a) to lose

Next time, do your homework, SputnikBoy! Or do you think that the english translation is superior to the original text?

Funny how out of the seven uses of 'destroy' you highlight the one that fits your theology while ignoring the context of the others. I've never seen that interpretation before, myself. Sounds a little eisegetic to me.

Here are all the biblical usages of the word 'destroy' in the Bible.


Old Testament

abad - to destroy
asaph - to gather (in its context means to group together to face their fate 1 Samuel 15:6)
ashem - to make or declare guilty or desolate
bala - to swallow up
garar - to catch, draw, drag (used in its context to imply corruption by something Proverbs 21:7)
dabar - to speak (Youngs makes a note that this is an error in the Hebrew text - 2 Chronicles 22:10)
daka - to bruise
damah - to cut off
hum - to move, destroy
hamam - to move, trouble, crush
harag - to kill
haras - to break or throw down
chabal - to destroy, act wickedly, corrupt
chareb - to make dry, waste
yanah - to oppress, break, thrust out
yarash - to dispossess, take as possession (used in Exodus 15:9)
kalah - to cut off or down
kathath - to beat down or out
megar - to cast down
mul - to end off
muth - to be put to death
machah - to blot out, wipe away
mashchith - destroying, corrupting
nasach - to pull down or away
naqaph - to go or set around , compass (used in its context as worms enveloping Job's body - Job 19:26)
nasham - to blow, destroy, made desolate
nathats - to break down
nathash - to pluck up
saphah - to end, consume
sethar - to hide, destroy
tsamath - to cut off, destroy
qur - to dig down, destroy
shabar - to break, shiver, destroy
shadad - to destroy, to spoil
shoah - wasting, desolation
shachath - to mar, corrupt, destroy
shakol - to bereave
shamad - to destroy, cut off, waste
shamem - to make desolate
charem - to devote to God or destruction
kalah - to finish, consume

New Testament

appolu - to lose off, away, destroy
diaph - to mar or corrupt thoroughly
exolothreuo - to destroy utterly
kathaireo - to take down
kataluo - to loose down
katargeo - to make of none effect
luo - to loose
olothreuo - to destroy
portheo - to lay waste
phtheiro - to mar, corrupt
_____________________________________

All of the references to the fate of the wicked with this word are those words to mean absoute annihilation and destruction


Tradtionalists will take the words:
katargeo - to make of none effect
phtheiro - to mar, corrupt

and the use of the word for' destruction' that in its one instant means 'to ruin' and make their case that to 'destroy' means to 'grant eternal life in conscious torment'. Unfortunately, they ignore the context in which these words are used, and ignore the nature of the wicked man, and the myriad of texts that say otherwise.

If you want to believe something bad enough you will twist what you can to make it fit.

When God says that the wicked will be destroyed, He means it. Rather than take the plain word of God at its face value, the traditionalist would rather make 'destroy' mean 'eternal, conscious torment'.

I also have the words for 'destruction' and again the conclusions are the same. When referenced with the ultimate fate of the wicked, annihilation is the meaning.

 

[PHIL121]

I think it's pretty clear from Scripture that the judgement against those whose names are not in the book of Life will be Eternal.... Revelation 20:10-14

 

[Free]

Given some of the Scriptures that speak of eternal punishment and eternal life it is pretty much impossible to argue against eternal punishment without also arguing against eternal life. This is one of the reasons I reject annihilationism and universalism.

 

[guibox]

Given some of the Scriptures that speak of eternal punishment and eternal life it is pretty much impossible to argue against eternal punishment without also arguing against eternal life. This is one of the reasons I reject annihilationism and universalism.

If one accepts (as the bible teaches) that the wicked do NOT have immortal bodies or souls or eternal life at all, one cannot come to the conclusion that they can be tortured for eternity. Instead we see that the term 'eternal' means the results of their punishment which according to Romans 6:23 is death and not eternal torment.

The terms 'unquenchable', 'worm dying not' 'smoke ascendeth up' are all used in the scriptures elsewhere to denote continuity and finality, not duration and eternity. Even the term 'forever and ever' is relative to whom it is speaking about and is used in the scriptures as such.

 

[Free]

If one accepts (as the bible teaches) that the wicked do NOT have immortal bodies or souls or eternal life at all, one cannot come to the conclusion that they can be tortured for eternity.

The Bible clearly teaches that man has an immortal soul.

Instead we see that the term 'eternal' means the results of their punishment

Show one instance where this is even implied. It is clearly taught that the punishment is eternal.

which according to Romans 6:23 is death and not eternal torment.

Once again you miss the obvious nuances of Scripture.

Even the term 'forever and ever' is relative to whom it is speaking about and is used in the scriptures as such.

Show me where it is used in a relative way about someone other than God.

 

[SputnikBoy]

If one accepts (as the bible teaches) that the wicked do NOT have immortal bodies or souls or eternal life at all, one cannot come to the conclusion that they can be tortured for eternity.

The Bible clearly teaches that man has an immortal soul.

Where?

Instead we see that the term 'eternal' means the results of their punishment

Show one instance where this is even implied. It is clearly taught that the punishment is eternal.

PunishMENT as in an accomplished act, yes. PunishING, as in an ongoing act, no.

which according to Romans 6:23 is death and not eternal torment.

Once again you miss the obvious nuances of Scripture.

Where is the nuance here? It says what it reads.

Even the term 'forever and ever' is relative to whom it is speaking about and is used in the scriptures as such.

Show me where it is used in a relative way about someone other than God.

Check your Bible Concordance, Free, there are a bunch of examples. I"ll present just one. It's found in Jonah 2:6. Jonah is talking about his experience in the belly of the whale. He says, "To the roots of the mountains I sank down; the earth beneath barred me in FOREVER ..." It was 3 days and 3 nights but I guess it felt like 'forever' to Jonah.