Are All who call upon the Name of the LORD Jesus saved? What can disqualify a "caller"?

[Alfred Persson]

I maintain all who truly call upon the Name of the LORD Jesus, that is: are willing to sell all they own, including their own life, are saved regardless their knowledge of Christian doctrine:

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." (Rom. 10:9-13 NKJ)

[Believing in the Resurrection of Christ is an essential part of calling upon the real Jesus Christ of Holy Scripture, hence Paul lists it as necessary to true belief in the LORD Jesus]

37 "He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
38 "And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.
39 "He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it. (Matt. 10:37-39 NKJ)

In other words, it not about theological correctness, its about the heart. If a cultist (fill in the blank) truly call upon Jesus for salvation, having faith He will save them---not holding anything back, that person is saved even if his cult theology is garbage:

But if something is withheld from God, if any draw back from 100% commitment, they are rejected:

Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him." (Heb. 10:38 NKJ)


There was a time I would dispute anyone who didn't believe in the Orthodox Trinitarian definition of the Name of the Son of God, could be saved.

But that contradicted my own experience. While I was being trained to be a Jehovah's Witness, Edmond C. Gruss' book "Apostles of Denial" convinced me Acts 13:2 proves God the Holy Spirit is a Person, All the proofs for the Deity of Christ "went over my head," I didn't understand that concept at all.

I fell into total dark despair, "if Jehovah's Witnesses aren't God's people, who are?" So I called out to "Jehovah the Father" for days with many tears, "please show me who your people are so I can join them."

Jehovah did not answer me.

Although I still hadn't fully grasped Jesus is God the Eternal Son of the Father who added to His divine Person the human nature of Jesus and then died and raised again physically----a Baptist Radio Minister had me publicly call on the Name of Jesus to be saved. To recite the "sinners prayer" Romans 10:9-12

I did this publicly in full hearing of my fellow sailors. I recall a strong feeling I should be ashamed and shut up arose in my mind, but I thought to myself "I want Jesus as my Lord more than life itself."

So I cried out to Jesus, "please save me a sinner!"

THEN God answered my cry, for I called out in Jesus' Name, to Jesus Himself and not to "Jehovah the Father".

What say you? Do you dispute my position? Why? Make your best arguments.

Would God reject the believer in His Son who not only called upon His Name but then sacrificed his very life sharing what he thought was the Christian Gospel, but was not 100% right about the Holy Trinity?

Recall its official statement of Orthodox Trinitarianism wasn't made until the council of Nicea, approx. 325 A.D..

 

[Randy]

I maintain all who truly call upon the Name of the LORD Jesus, that is: are willing to sell all they own, including their own life, are saved regardless their knowledge of Christian doctrine:

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." (Rom. 10:9-13 NKJ)

[Believing in the Resurrection of Christ is an essential part of calling upon the real Jesus Christ of Holy Scripture, hence Paul lists it as necessary to true belief in the LORD Jesus]

37 "He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
38 "And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.
39 "He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it. (Matt. 10:37-39 NKJ)

In other words, it not about theological correctness, its about the heart. If a cultist (fill in the blank) truly call upon Jesus for salvation, having faith He will save them---not holding anything back, that person is saved even if his cult theology is garbage:

But if something is withheld from God, if any draw back from 100% commitment, they are rejected:

Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him." (Heb. 10:38 NKJ)


There was a time I would dispute anyone who didn't believe in the Orthodox Trinitarian definition of the Name of the Son of God, could be saved.

But that contradicted my own experience. While I was being trained to be a Jehovah's Witness, Edmond C. Gruss' book "Apostles of Denial" convinced me Acts 13:2 proves God the Holy Spirit is a Person, All the proofs for the Deity of Christ "went over my head," I didn't understand that concept at all.

I fell into total dark despair, "if Jehovah's Witnesses aren't God's people, who are?" So I called out to "Jehovah the Father" for days with many tears, "please show me who your people are so I can join them."

Jehovah did not answer me.

Although I still hadn't fully grasped Jesus is God the Eternal Son of the Father who added to His divine Person the human nature of Jesus and then died and raised again physically----a Baptist Radio Minister had me publicly call on the Name of Jesus to be saved. To recite the "sinners prayer" Romans 10:9-12

I did this publicly in full hearing of my fellow sailors. I recall a strong feeling I should be ashamed and shut up arose in my mind, but I thought to myself "I want Jesus as my Lord more than life itself."

So I cried out to Jesus, "please save me a sinner!"

THEN God answered my cry, for I called out in Jesus' Name, to Jesus Himself and not to "Jehovah the Father".

What say you? Do you dispute my position? Why? Make your best arguments.

Would God reject the believer in His Son who not only called upon His Name but then sacrificed his very life sharing what he thought was the Christian Gospel, but was not 100% right about the Holy Trinity?

Recall its official statement of Orthodox Trinitarianism wasn't made until the council of Nicea, approx. 325 A.D..

I have believed, loved and prayed to Jesus as far back as my memory goes. My Christian Mother steered me to Christ from my beginning.

I never needed proof or signs to believe in Him. I have always, (as far back as my memory goes), with all my heart believed in Him. I don't believe people are prechosen so it must be the Holy Spirit was involved. As a small child I didn't consider theologies such as the trinity that I can remember. I just prayed to Him and knew He heard me.

Nobody comes to Jesus apart from the Father.
All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Two asked something of Jesus when He was on the cross. Only one received a answer. The one who believed in Him.
God knows our hearts and sees our faith.

 

[Alfred Persson]

I have believed, loved and prayed to Jesus as far back as my memory goes. My Christian Mother steered me to Christ from my beginning.

I never needed proof or signs to believe in Him. I have always, (as far back as my memory goes), with all my heart believed in Him. I don't believe people are prechosen so it must be the Holy Spirit was involved. As a small child I didn't consider theologies such as the trinity that I can remember. I just prayed to Him and knew He heard me.

Nobody comes to Jesus apart from the Father.
All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Two asked something of Jesus when He was on the cross. Only one received a answer. The one who believed in Him.
God knows our hearts and sees our faith.

I have no opinion on whether you are saved or not. That is something only you know.

I reject "easy-believism":

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To be saved one must sincerely go to Jesus for salvation, repent and believe in Him with all their heart that He is LORD.

But the OP asks for counter-argument precisely because i don't know what i don't know.

At what point does disagreement about scripture indicate rebellion against the truth, or just human inability to think clearly?

I don't know. I notice Paul, when turning a sinner over to Satan for destruction of his flesh, didn't say the sinner was irreconcilably lost. He could repent in hell and be saved on Judgment Day, the day of the LORD Jesus:

deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Cor. 5:5 NKJ)

But if you ask whether I believe you aren't saved because we cannot agree on who Jesus is, I have to confess that is above my pay grade. God knows the heart and He alone knows.

While I warn rebellion against the plain meaning of Scripture indicates an unsaved unregenerate heart, I can't know if disagreement indicates rebellion against God or not.

There are sincere disagreements among Christians that do not indicate whether one is saved or not:

37 Now Barnabas was determined to take with them John called Mark.
38 But Paul insisted that they should not take with them the one who had departed from them in Pamphylia, and had not gone with them to the work.
39 Then the contention became so sharp that they parted from one another. And so Barnabas took Mark and sailed to Cyprus;
40 but Paul chose Silas and departed, being commended by the brethren to the grace of God.
41 And he went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches. (Acts 15:37-41 NKJ)

Neither Barnabas or Paul would decide this issue without thoroughly considering the Scriptures, and yet they could not agree.

The OP opines more are saved than many Christians think is the case, but only God knows how many.

Its too bad no one replied strongly disagreeing, citing scripture for their reasons why. Then the OP can be tested according to the Standard of Scripture:

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3:16-4:1 NKJ)

 

[Randy]

I have no opinion on whether you are saved or not. That is something only you know.

I reject "easy-believism":

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endtimenews.net

To be saved one must sincerely go to Jesus for salvation, repent and believe in Him with all their heart that He is LORD.

But the OP asks for counter-argument precisely because i don't know what i don't know.

At what point does disagreement about scripture indicate rebellion against the truth, or just human inability to think clearly?

I don't know. I notice Paul, when turning a sinner over to Satan for destruction of his flesh, didn't say the sinner was irreconcilably lost. He could repent in hell and be saved on Judgment Day, the day of the LORD Jesus:

deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Cor. 5:5 NKJ)

But if you ask whether I believe you aren't saved because we cannot agree on who Jesus is, I have to confess that is above my pay grade. God knows the heart and He alone knows.

While I warn rebellion against the plain meaning of Scripture indicates an unsaved unregenerate heart, I can't know if disagreement indicates rebellion against God or not.

There are sincere disagreements among Christians that do not indicate whether one is saved or not:

37 Now Barnabas was determined to take with them John called Mark.
38 But Paul insisted that they should not take with them the one who had departed from them in Pamphylia, and had not gone with them to the work.
39 Then the contention became so sharp that they parted from one another. And so Barnabas took Mark and sailed to Cyprus;
40 but Paul chose Silas and departed, being commended by the brethren to the grace of God.
41 And he went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches. (Acts 15:37-41 NKJ)

Neither Barnabas or Paul would decide this issue without thoroughly considering the Scriptures, and yet they could not agree.

The OP opines more are saved than many Christians think is the case, but only God knows how many.

Its too bad no one replied strongly disagreeing, citing scripture for their reasons why. Then the OP can be tested according to the Standard of Scripture:

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3:16-4:1 NKJ)

No one can call on the Lord with faith to be saved unless the Father enables them. And as Jesus stated all that the Father gives Him will come to Him.

The apostles stated anyone who calls on the Lord will be saved. They then didn't list a bunch of conditions why this might not be true.

A sincere faith seems to be the Key. Jesus will know who really believes in Him. He sees the heart of a person.

I have had discussions with JW's on the internet. They will not pray to Him or go to Him for life. They don't see Him that way and that is a serious lack of saving faith in my opinion.

Jesus stated those who listen and learn from the Father come to HIM.

 

[JLB]

I fell into total dark despair, "if Jehovah's Witnesses aren't God's people, who are?" So I called out to "Jehovah the Father" for days with many tears, "please show me who your people are so I can join them."

Jehovah did not answer me.

Jehovah is not the name of God.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I did this publicly in full hearing of my fellow sailors. I recall a strong feeling I should be ashamed and shut up arose in my mind, but I thought to myself "I want Jesus as my Lord more than life itself."

Amen!


Awesome.

 

[JLB]

In other words, it not about theological correctness, its about the heart. If a cultist (fill in the blank) truly call upon Jesus for salvation, having faith He will save them---not holding anything back, that person is saved even if his cult theology is garbage:

Yes, amen.


However, he must turn away from his false teachings.



Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9




JLB

 

[Alfred Persson]

Jehovah is not the name of God.


JLB

Correct but beside the point. "LORD" which represents the tetragrammaton YHWH found in most Bibles isn't His name either, but I sincerely doubt God would refuse to hear the prayer of someone who called for the LORD GOD to answer.

The point was, I didn't go to Jesus the only way to the Father and THAT is why God didn't answer me.

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. (Jn. 14:6 NKJ)

 

[Alfred Persson]

Yes, amen.


However, he must turn away from his false teachings.



Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9




JLB

I agree, but can one "abide in the doctrine of Christ" keeping everything He taught about commitment, holiness, love for God and fellow man, yet be confused or wrong about the Holy Trinity.

I think it possible but am unsure. God has opened my mind to see how the doctrine of the Trinity is the "missing elephant body" connecting the "trunk and trail" the "bind men" can feel.

And that is true for most of the church regardless whether Orthodox, Protestant or Catholic. But it is admitted by all to be somewhat mysterious and what if someone finds it impossible to believe, but otherwise is fully committed to the doctrine of Christ?

Are they saved?

This is open to debate, especially as the full formulation of the Holy Trinity didn't happen the first few centuries. Its was the early Christians who established the church yet its clearly evident in the early church fathers there was some confusion among them about it.

 

[JLB]

I agree, but can one "abide in the doctrine of Christ" keeping everything He taught about commitment, holiness, love for God and fellow man, yet be confused or wrong about the Holy Trinity.

I think it possible but am unsure. God has opened my mind to see how the doctrine of the Trinity is the "missing elephant body" connecting the "trunk and trail" the "bind men" can feel.

And that is true for most of the church regardless whether Orthodox, Protestant or Catholic. But it is admitted by all to be somewhat mysterious and what if someone finds it impossible to believe, but otherwise is fully committed to the doctrine of Christ?

Are they saved?

This is open to debate, especially as the full formulation of the Holy Trinity didn't happen the first few centuries. Its was the early Christians who established the church yet its clearly evident in the early church fathers there was some confusion among them about it.

I believe God knows where each person is in their maturity level, and hold each one accountable, accordingly.

When it comes to sin, and directly violating His commandments, we are on dangerous ground.


Here is how we are instructed to remain in Christ.



Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24



JLB

 

[Cnkw3]

Alfred Persson
I maintain all who truly call upon the Name of the LORD Jesus, that is: are willing to sell all they own, including their own life, are saved regardless their knowledge of Christian doctrine

In Rom 10 you stopped at verse 13. If you would have read 14 and 15 you would see that a person CANNOT CALL unless they have heard the word preached and believed it. Paul said….how can a person call if they haven’t believed and how can they believe if they haven’t heard, etc..
To call upon the name of the lord is to ask Jesus to save you according to his plan or based on his conditions. The New Testament describes exactly what this means and how to do it and its not through prayer. You don’t get to decide how you will call on him. So if you don’t have the proper knowledge of Christian doctrine there is no way you can be saved.
John tells us that if you do not abide in the doctrine of Christ you have not God. 2 Jn 9
You cant abide in something you don’t know. So, the first disqualifying point is…..a lack of knowledge.

I fell into total dark despair, "if Jehovah's Witnesses aren't God's people, who are?" So I called out to "Jehovah the Father" for days with many tears, "please show me who your people are so I can join them."

Jehovah did not answer me.

Although I still hadn't fully grasped Jesus is God the Eternal Son of the Father who added to His divine Person the human nature of Jesus and then died and raised again physically----a Baptist Radio Minister had me publicly call on the Name of Jesus to be saved. To recite the "sinners prayer" Romans 10:9-12

I did this publicly in full hearing of my fellow sailors. I recall a strong feeling I should be ashamed and shut up arose in my mind, but I thought to myself "I want Jesus as my Lord more than life itself."

So I cried out to Jesus, "please save me a sinner!"

THEN God answered my cry, for I called out in Jesus' Name, to Jesus Himself and not to "Jehovah the Father".

What say you? Do you dispute my position? Why? Make your best arguments.

This is interesting. You were praying and weeping for days and needed an answer? God gave you the answer in the Bible but instead you went to a baptist preacher. Saul/Paul was in Damascus blind, fasting, praying and weeping for 3 days. He had believed, confessed and repented on the road to Damascus and then Jesus sent a preacher to him to tell him what to do. This is what he was told…
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Acts 22:16

He was told to be baptized to wash away his sins. He WAS NOT told to say a prayer. Nobody was ever told to say a prayer in order to become a Christian in the NT. If you can show it to me then go right ahead. Next disqualifying point is….doing what some man tells you and not what God has instructed you to do.

 

[for_his_glory]

But that contradicted my own experience. While I was being trained to be a Jehovah's Witness, Edmond C. Gruss' book "Apostles of Denial" convinced me Acts 13:2 proves God the Holy Spirit is a Person, All the proofs for the Deity of Christ "went over my head," I didn't understand that concept at all.

The Watchtower Organization teaches that it is God's sole earthly representative​

Jehovah’s Witnesses are controlled by a "Governing Body" which they claim is the "faithful and discreet slave" spoken of at Mathew 24:45. This group consists of 10 to 15 mature men that, Jehovah’s Witnesses are told, have direct guidance from God. The Governing Body in turn instructs followers with this guidance through the pages of the Watchtower and other publications. Jehovah’s Witnesses are told by this "Governing Body" that Scripture alone is insufficient to understand the things of God. One needs the Watchtower Society and the literature it publishes to properly understand the Bible. ("Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit-anointed ones... Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do. Watchtower, December 1, 1981 p.27) they are the instruments God is using to teach the world the deeper things of the scriptures. People are not to think for themselves but instead submit to the Watchtower Society teachings. (" But a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in God’s organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men taking the lead among us. Watchtower September 15, 1989 p. 23) Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are the only people on earth that are serving God and the only ones that will be saved. They dare not question the teachings of the Watchtower Society; one who questions the Watchtower Society is considered to be weak in faith and could be disfellowshipped.

Trinity​

They do not believe in the Trinity. Instead, they follow a strict monotheism, in which: Jehovah is the Supreme Being. Jesus is the Son of God, a created being. Christ is believed to have originally existed in a pre-human state as the Archangel Michael. He later took human form as a man like any other person, except that he was sinless at birth and remained so throughout his earthly life. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ. They believe that after the crucifixion, Christ died and was resurrected as an invisible, non-material, glorious, spirit creature. They believe that Jesus appeared on earth after his resurrection in a special body that Jehovah created for him.

The Holy Spirit they believe, is not a separate entity, but is simply a force: the method by which God interacts with the world.

 

[Alfred Persson]

The Watchtower Organization teaches that it is God's sole earthly representative​

Jehovah’s Witnesses are controlled by a "Governing Body" which they claim is the "faithful and discreet slave" spoken of at Mathew 24:45. This group consists of 10 to 15 mature men that, Jehovah’s Witnesses are told, have direct guidance from God. The Governing Body in turn instructs followers with this guidance through the pages of the Watchtower and other publications. Jehovah’s Witnesses are told by this "Governing Body" that Scripture alone is insufficient to understand the things of God. One needs the Watchtower Society and the literature it publishes to properly understand the Bible. ("Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit-anointed ones... Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do. Watchtower, December 1, 1981 p.27) they are the instruments God is using to teach the world the deeper things of the scriptures. People are not to think for themselves but instead submit to the Watchtower Society teachings. (" But a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in God’s organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men taking the lead among us. Watchtower September 15, 1989 p. 23) Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are the only people on earth that are serving God and the only ones that will be saved. They dare not question the teachings of the Watchtower Society; one who questions the Watchtower Society is considered to be weak in faith and could be disfellowshipped.

Trinity​

They do not believe in the Trinity. Instead, they follow a strict monotheism, in which: Jehovah is the Supreme Being. Jesus is the Son of God, a created being. Christ is believed to have originally existed in a pre-human state as the Archangel Michael. He later took human form as a man like any other person, except that he was sinless at birth and remained so throughout his earthly life. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ. They believe that after the crucifixion, Christ died and was resurrected as an invisible, non-material, glorious, spirit creature. They believe that Jesus appeared on earth after his resurrection in a special body that Jehovah created for him.

The Holy Spirit they believe, is not a separate entity, but is simply a force: the method by which God interacts with the world.

Good summary. Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult, unsaved and unregenerate works based man made religion. I was well on my way to becoming one of their drones. I am convinced the Society's "spirit anointed" commune with demons, which is confirmed by their concept of Jehovah as the big spirit surrounded by lesser spirits.

I see confirmation of their spiritism in their use of Johannes Greber's “The New Testament: A New Translation Based Upon the Oldest Manuscripts,” to support their "a god" rendering in John 1:1 New World Translation.

In their Aid to Bible Understanding. On page 1669 we read:

"A translation by a former Roman Catholic priest, Johannes Greber (1937 ed), renders the second appearance of the word "god" in the sentence as "a god."

Greber was not only a former Roman Catholic priest, he was a spiritualist. His “The New Testament: A New Translation Based Upon the Oldest Manuscripts,” he says the spirits were followed whenever they spoke or translated the Greek. The manuscripts were followed only if they were silent.

Therefore it was a demon that told Greber to translate "the word was a god", not the Greek Text.

After I discovered their use of Greber and alerted dozens of Christian apologists, who used that information to great apologetic effect, the Watchtower Society then disavowed any love for Greber.

But I believe his communications with the spirit world are replicated in the Tower till this day. I have no proof for that, only the fruit of their Doctrine which indicates the satanic tree from whence it sprouts:

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, (1 Tim. 4:1 NKJ)

 

[Alfred Persson]

In Rom 10 you stopped at verse 13. If you would have read 14 and 15 you would see that a person CANNOT CALL unless they have heard the word preached and believed it. Paul said….how can a person call if they haven’t believed and how can they believe if they haven’t heard, etc..
To call upon the name of the lord is to ask Jesus to save you according to his plan or based on his conditions. The New Testament describes exactly what this means and how to do it and its not through prayer. You don’t get to decide how you will call on him. So if you don’t have the proper knowledge of Christian doctrine there is no way you can be saved.
John tells us that if you do not abide in the doctrine of Christ you have not God. 2 Jn 9
You cant abide in something you don’t know. So, the first disqualifying point is…..a lack of knowledge.


This is interesting. You were praying and weeping for days and needed an answer? God gave you the answer in the Bible but instead you went to a baptist preacher. Saul/Paul was in Damascus blind, fasting, praying and weeping for 3 days. He had believed, confessed and repented on the road to Damascus and then Jesus sent a preacher to him to tell him what to do. This is what he was told…
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Acts 22:16

He was told to be baptized to wash away his sins. He WAS NOT told to say a prayer. Nobody was ever told to say a prayer in order to become a Christian in the NT. If you can show it to me then go right ahead. Next disqualifying point is….doing what some man tells you and not what God has instructed you to do.

Odd you contradict yourself, finding fault I heeded faithful preaching by a Baptist minister yet citing texts which declare "how shall they believe...without a preacher?"

When i finally called out to Jesus, and not Jehovah, I was calling to Him as God. BUT if you stopped me at that point and demanded I state precisely what i believed, i wouldn't been able to do it.

I only knew I wanted Jesus as my LORD more than life itself.

And I was born again at that time, when i believed and confessed publicly Jesus is LORD!.

I was obeying the Bible, the Word of God when I did it, after being preached to. Nothing unscriptural about that at all, as the context proves:

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!" (Rom. 10:14-15 NKJ)

AND you are wrong people are not told to confess their belief, testify publicly what it is they believe:

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
(Rom. 10:9-10 NKJ)

Frankly, I cannot discern why you spun my words in such an odd and negative fashion. Or how that would benefit anyone. In fact, it obscures the way people are saved every day, by confessing Jesus is LORD publicly.

Baptism in the NT was also a public declaration of belief. When the Jews in Scripture were baptised, they were cast out of the synagogues and persecuted, many to death as Paul testifies he once did to them.

 

[Alfred Persson]

The Watchtower Organization teaches that it is God's sole earthly representative​

Jehovah’s Witnesses are controlled by a "Governing Body" which they claim is the "faithful and discreet slave" spoken of at Mathew 24:45. This group consists of 10 to 15 mature men that, Jehovah’s Witnesses are told, have direct guidance from God. The Governing Body in turn instructs followers with this guidance through the pages of the Watchtower and other publications. Jehovah’s Witnesses are told by this "Governing Body" that Scripture alone is insufficient to understand the things of God. One needs the Watchtower Society and the literature it publishes to properly understand the Bible. ("Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit-anointed ones... Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do. Watchtower, December 1, 1981 p.27) they are the instruments God is using to teach the world the deeper things of the scriptures. People are not to think for themselves but instead submit to the Watchtower Society teachings. (" But a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in God’s organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men taking the lead among us. Watchtower September 15, 1989 p. 23) Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are the only people on earth that are serving God and the only ones that will be saved. They dare not question the teachings of the Watchtower Society; one who questions the Watchtower Society is considered to be weak in faith and could be disfellowshipped.

Trinity​

They do not believe in the Trinity. Instead, they follow a strict monotheism, in which: Jehovah is the Supreme Being. Jesus is the Son of God, a created being. Christ is believed to have originally existed in a pre-human state as the Archangel Michael. He later took human form as a man like any other person, except that he was sinless at birth and remained so throughout his earthly life. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ. They believe that after the crucifixion, Christ died and was resurrected as an invisible, non-material, glorious, spirit creature. They believe that Jesus appeared on earth after his resurrection in a special body that Jehovah created for him.

The Holy Spirit they believe, is not a separate entity, but is simply a force: the method by which God interacts with the world.

I exceeded 30 minutes. Wanted to include this quote proving the "spirit anointed" in the WatchTower are likely spiritists:

"While there are physical bodies visible and palpable, there are also spiritual bodies, invisible to human eyes and entirely beyond human senses. (1 Cor. 15:44) The bodies of spiritual persons (God, Christ, the angels) are glorious...The true God is infinite and beyond the mind of man fully to fathom...The true God is not omnipresent."--Aid To Bible Understanding, p. 247, 665 (Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, 1971)

Couple that with their claim of divine illumination and you get "they are spiritists, heeding the doctrine of demons against the teaching of God's Word the Bible."

 

[for_his_glory]

Good summary. Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult, unsaved and unregenerate works based man made religion. I was well on my way to becoming one of their drones. I am convinced the Society's "spirit anointed" commune with demons, which is confirmed by their concept of Jehovah as the big spirit surrounded by lesser spirits.

I see confirmation of their spiritism in their use of Johannes Greber's “The New Testament: A New Translation Based Upon the Oldest Manuscripts,” to support their "a god" rendering in John 1:1 New World Translation.

In their Aid to Bible Understanding. On page 1669 we read:

"A translation by a former Roman Catholic priest, Johannes Greber (1937 ed), renders the second appearance of the word "god" in the sentence as "a god."

Greber was not only a former Roman Catholic priest, he was a spiritualist. His “The New Testament: A New Translation Based Upon the Oldest Manuscripts,” he says the spirits were followed whenever they spoke or translated the Greek. The manuscripts were followed only if they were silent.

Therefore it was a demon that told Greber to translate "the word was a god", not the Greek Text.

After I discovered their use of Greber and alerted dozens of Christian apologists, who used that information to great apologetic effect, the Watchtower Society then disavowed any love for Greber.

But I believe his communications with the spirit world are replicated in the Tower till this day. I have no proof for that, only the fruit of their Doctrine which indicates the satanic tree from whence it sprouts:

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, (1 Tim. 4:1 NKJ)

Sorry, I thought you said you were JW. Glad you got out of it.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Sorry, I thought you said you were JW. Glad you got out of it.

I'm a Christian, Orthodox Trinitarian. Except for a few minor disagreements about hell, Predestination, a Baptist:

What I believe | End Time News, Today - Rapture Ready News

I consider myself a primitive Orthodox Christian, like Athanasius. I reject icons and the Filioque, and find my beliefs closely track Protestant Baptist (Cessationist) except in personal eschatology, Hades, Lake of Fire, postmortem evangelization, etc.. I strip away the errors that arose in the...

endtimenews.net

 

[Cnkw3]

Odd you contradict yourself, finding fault I heeded faithful preaching by a Baptist minister yet citing texts which declare "how shall they believe...without a preacher?"

When i finally called out to Jesus, and not Jehovah, I was calling to Him as God. BUT if you stopped me at that point and demanded I state precisely what i believed, i wouldn't been able to do it.

I didnt contradict myself. I never said that you should not be preached too. Many people preach, very few preach truth. What you should have done is act like the Bereans in Acts 17. They heard preaching then searched the scriptures to see if it was true preaching. You didnt do that. If you would you would have found that NOBODY was ever told to pray for their salvation. Then you could have sought out another preacher. Someone who would give book chapter and verse Like MK 16:16. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved or Acts 2:38. Peter did say in 1 pet4:11 if ANY MAN speak let him speak as the oracles of God. The oracles of God ONLY come from the Bible…book chapter and verse.

I only knew I wanted Jesus as my LORD more than life itself.

And I was born again at that time, when i believed and confessed publicly Jesus is LORD!.

Rom 10 does not mention repentance so we know Paul was not stating ALL someone has to do for salvation Because he then adds….calling on the name of the lord as a condition (which is not prayer). You do know that Paul in Romans was writing to a church that had already believed, repented, and were baptized? So he was NOT telling them HOW to be saved.
Please show me one person that was declared free from sin by belief and confession only.
Acts 2 Pentecost Jews - not there
acts 8 Samaritans - nope
acts 8 eunuch? - nope. He went away rejoicing after coming out of water. Born again involves water and Spirit.
Acts 9 Saul? - nope. Not there
Cornelius? - Nope
Ephesians in Acts 18-19? Nope. They were baptized twice.
So maybe you can show me all the people who confessed and prayed to be born again.

I was obeying the Bible, the Word of God when I did it, after being preached to. Nothing unscriptural about that at all, as the context proves:

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!" (Rom. 10:14-15 NKJ)

No. You obeyed a Baptist preacher not the Bible. There is A huge difference. If you obeyed the Bible then you can show me, from the Bible, how others did what you did. If you can’t then it didnt come from the Bible.

AND you are wrong people are not told to confess their belief, testify publicly what it is they believe:

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
(Rom. 10:9-10 NKJ)

Frankly, I cannot discern why you spun my words in such an odd and negative fashion. Or how that would benefit anyone. In fact, it obscures the way people are saved every day, by confessing Jesus is LORD publicly.

Baptism in the NT was also a public declaration of belief. When the Jews in Scripture were baptised, they were cast out of the synagogues and persecuted, many to death as Paul testifies he once did to them.

This is the problem. You didnt obey truth and all I’m trying to do is help you get it right. Your soul depends on it, but now I’m mean and negative. Show me how I “spun” your words. Did the Ephesians in Acts 19 say the same thing you just said to Paul when he told them they were wrong and he helped them get it right? No. But this is the world we live in where everyone is going to heaven no matter what doctrine they follow.
I guess I should just leave you alone and let you deal with the consequences of following baptist doctrine which cannot be found in the Bible. I’m going to predict you will either ignore what I said or your next post will not deal with any of the questions I just asked by showing me Bible it will be all about me and how insensitive and misguided and wrong I am. When people don’t have truth they resort to personal attacks.

 

[T. E. Smith]

If you would you would have found that NOBODY was ever told to pray for their salvation.

Wrong. Romans 10:13 says, "For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." He's clearly speaking of a call to God for salvation, i.e., a prayer.

"But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven but was beating his breast and saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!'" (Luke 18:13)

"Immediately the father of the child cried out, 'I believe; help my unbelief!'" (Mark 9:24)

Three times do people call on God/are told to call on God to ask for salvation.

 

[Free]

I maintain all who truly call upon the Name of the LORD Jesus, that is: are willing to sell all they own, including their own life, are saved regardless their knowledge of Christian doctrine:

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." (Rom. 10:9-13 NKJ)

[Believing in the Resurrection of Christ is an essential part of calling upon the real Jesus Christ of Holy Scripture, hence Paul lists it as necessary to true belief in the LORD Jesus]

37 "He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
38 "And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.
39 "He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it. (Matt. 10:37-39 NKJ)

In other words, it not about theological correctness, its about the heart. If a cultist (fill in the blank) truly call upon Jesus for salvation, having faith He will save them---not holding anything back, that person is saved even if his cult theology is garbage:

You are begging the question. What Jesus does one call out to? Since Jesus is the central figure of the entire Bible, through whom alone we have salvation, does it stand to reason that he can be whomever or whatever someone wants him to be and still be saved? No, it doesn't.

For instance, the very passage you quote, Romans 10:9-13, quotes Joel 2:32a, "And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." Of course, where "LORD" appears in the OT, the Hebrwe is YHWH. Hence, a strong case can be made that Romans 10:13 means that one must believe Jesus is truly God, the God-man, in order to be saved. Take John 20:31 as well, " but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name."

Or, take the many instances Jesus himself says to believe in him, in his name, for salvation (John 3:16-18), and what John states in John 1:12. It is more than just putting one's trust and faith in Jesus, it also includes believing that he is who he says he is.

Theological correctness on certain things matters for salvation.

Would God reject the believer in His Son who not only called upon His Name but then sacrificed his very life sharing what he thought was the Christian Gospel, but was not 100% right about the Holy Trinity?

Yes. One can sacrifice one's life for a Jesus that is not the Jesus of the Bible.