Are humans animals?

[Anathemark]

Ecclesiastes 3:18-20

New International Version

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18 I also said to myself, “As for humans, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath[a]; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. -- Ecclesiastes 3:18-20
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Footnotes​

1. Ecclesiastes 3:19 Or spirit

 

[BeyondET]

50% human 50% microorganism an ecosystem.

 

[Anathemark]

The question requires only a simple "yes" or "no".

 

[BeyondET]

The question requires only a simple "yes" or "no".

Yes man and animals are from the same dirt. Even the microorganisms that live in and on you they are animals too. the soul is the breath, these days it's the zinc spark at conception.

 

[Anathemark]

Thank you!
Now the follow up question: Do humans share the same fate as other animals?

 

[BeyondET]

Thank you!
Now the follow up question: Do humans share the same fate as other animals?

They both shared the same fate on the ark, so yes they do. The ark was salvation for man and animal.

 

[WIP]

The Questions and Answers forum is not a debate forum. Based on the tone of the questions asked by the OP, I sense this thread was intended for debate so I am moving it to the Christianity and Science forum.

 

[Anathemark]

I asked questions, not about science, but about religious belief in the context of quoted scripture. Still, I do understand your fear, WIP. In the context of the scripture quoted, any answers could be ... uncomfortable.

 

[Edward]

Yes man and animals are from the same dirt. Even the microorganisms that live in and on you they are animals too. the soul is the breath, these days it's the zinc spark at conception.

I have to agree with this. I look at the earth and there are forms of life from the bottom to the top. We human beings are the highest form of life on the planet. We were created to serve God. Therefore, it stands to reason that, all forms of life on earth, are here to serve higher life forms. It's not just animals. How about that tree or that rock mountain? Is it not written that all of creation sings praises unto the Lord? Will the very stones cry out or not? Scripture says yes. That said,

We can stick with animals though. It makes it to easy when they are animate and able to be perceived or seen &heard by man. There are good dogs and bad dogs. Why did one dog choose to attack a 6 yeard little girl, and a different dog saved His master's toddler from being bitten by a venomous snake in the back yard?

(Speculation): Is it possible that the dog which saved a life could one day be promoted to Human?
Is it possible for the dog which attacked and maimed an innocent little one be promoted to Human? I doubt it!
How about that nice Apple tree in your backyard. Mmmm, Mom & Grandma have both made so many pies from it for the family! That's a good tree. He fed familes for a long time, and never complained when the kids would climb him and break his branches off. Since the Tree did good, could it be promoted to being an animal for it's actions in the next world?

The Creator which created the tree and the dogs could very well do something like this. He didn't have to explain it to us Humans because tree or animal promotion is not an issue nor is salvific in nature to man. Scripture tells us, that those whom are born agan and are saved, will one day be transformed into something new. An elevated plane of existance. So, to me at least, it would be possib;e for the Creator to be doing other things with the animals and plans here.
A clog of dirt becomes rock.
The rock becomes a mountain.
The mountain becomes vegetation and trees.
Trees become animals.
Animals become Human.
Humans become...the Family of God...!

Clues are in scripture, but not too concrete. I think it's just strange enough to perhaps be true.

 

[for_his_glory]

I asked questions, not about science, but about religious belief in the context of quoted scripture. Still, I do understand your fear, WIP. In the context of the scripture quoted, any answers could be ... uncomfortable.

Question & Answer forum is for asking questions without anyone debating the question that you have asked by this threads title and OP. WIP moved this to the Christianity and Science forum for a better fit as in the discussion you want to have with others.

 

[jasonc]

No but we sure act worse then they do

 

[Christ_empowered]

Yeah.., scripture says…For me or against me. I’ve also heard it said… you’ve got your Christians and then you’ve got everybody else.

Eek ?

 

[Anathemark]

18 I also said to myself, “As for humans, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath[a]; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. -- Ecclesiastes 3:18-20

That is not about biology. It states that "humans have no advantage over animals". If humans have a "soul" that is not simply "breath" this seems to deny that the soul is an advantage. If there is no advantage, then humans are not at the "top". I repeat: Ecclesiastes 3:18-20 is not a scientific statement. I asked if it were "true" and humans do not differ as to breath or fate. Or is it false and humans do possess some advantage. If theology were a science, it would cite evidence from the real world and make usable predictions.

I repeat he question: Is Ecclesiastes 3:18-20 true or false?

My position has been stated thus: “Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation
and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.” ― Buddha Siddhartha Gautama Shakyamuni

This is the basis of the scientific method: Observe the real world and check the accuracy of your observations. Form and test hypotheses that explain the observations. When hypotheses are supported and make accurate predictions, the best proposed explanation becomes a scientific theory, which may still be falsified by new observation or more accurate predictions. For instance, quantum theory predicted the fine structure constant to an extreme precision, and it was found to be accurate by observation.

 

[Anathemark]

Yeah.., scripture says…For me or against me. I’ve also heard it said… you’ve got your Christians and then you’ve got everybody else.

Eek ?

Religion, nationalism, racism, sports fandom ... it is all just tribalism, to divide the "superior us" from the "inferior them". And biology recognizes that evolution does not produce superior forms, merely forms that are better adjusted to specific environments.

 

[Free]

18 I also said to myself, “As for humans, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath[a]; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. -- Ecclesiastes 3:18-20

That is not about biology. It states that "humans have no advantage over animals". If humans have a "soul" that is not simply "breath" this seems to deny that the soul is an advantage. If there is no advantage, then humans are not at the "top". I repeat: Ecclesiastes 3:18-20 is not a scientific statement. I asked if it were "true" and humans do not differ as to breath or fate. Or is it false and humans do possess some advantage. If theology were a science, it would cite evidence from the real world and make usable predictions.

I repeat he question: Is Ecclesiastes 3:18-20 true or false?

It is true, properly understood and within its context. The main theme of Ecclesiastes is that apart from God, man's efforts on earth are meaningless. The passage in question is merely pointing out the mortality of man is like animals, that men die and return to the dust, the same as animals, and so has no advantage in that regard.

Is anyone claiming that theology is a science? It is a source of true knowledge about the world, like science, but no one is claiming that it is a science, that I have seen.

 

[jasonc]

Yeah.., scripture says…For me or against me. I’ve also heard it said… you’ve got your Christians and then you’ve got everybody else.

Eek ?

By making no decision you have made a decision ,rush,lead singer geddy lee an agnostic paraphrases.

 

[Anathemark]

By making no decision you have made a decision ,rush,lead singer geddy lee an agnostic paraphrases.

Life is chemistry, a flow of matter and energy to the most probable state. (Second Law of Thermodynamics!) Mind/thought/behavior is neurochemical feedback cycles that suppress or reinforce responses. Because the neural system is chaotic, that is, the system is sensitive to initial conditions, human behavior is only partially and sometimes predictable, and persons involve often do not know why they have done what they have done, although they may explain it by rationalizing it in the anterior cingulate cortex. A "decision" is just as much a chemical reaction as the change in color of litmus paper, although it is admittedly somewhat more complex.

 

[jasonc]

Life is chemistry, a flow of matter and energy to the most probable state. (Second Law of Thermodynamics!) Mind/thought/behavior is neurochemical feedback cycles that suppress or reinforce responses. Because the neural system is chaotic, that is, the system is sensitive to initial conditions, human behavior is only partially and sometimes predictable, and persons involve often do not know why they have done what they have done, although they may explain it by rationalizing it in the anterior cingulate cortex. A "decision" is just as much a chemical reaction as the change in color of litmus paper, although it is admittedly somewhat more complex.

You really enjoy life .

Look when ones has PTSD you can become nihilist.i choose not to .the point was no one can say you are right and claim an opposing fact .

 

[BeyondET]

I have to agree with this. I look at the earth and there are forms of life from the bottom to the top. We human beings are the highest form of life on the planet. We were created to serve God. Therefore, it stands to reason that, all forms of life on earth, are here to serve higher life forms. It's not just animals. How about that tree or that rock mountain? Is it not written that all of creation sings praises unto the Lord? Will the very stones cry out or not? Scripture says yes. That said,

We can stick with animals though. It makes it to easy when they are animate and able to be perceived or seen &heard by man. There are good dogs and bad dogs. Why did one dog choose to attack a 6 yeard little girl, and a different dog saved His master's toddler from being bitten by a venomous snake in the back yard?

(Speculation): Is it possible that the dog which saved a life could one day be promoted to Human?
Is it possible for the dog which attacked and maimed an innocent little one be promoted to Human? I doubt it!
How about that nice Apple tree in your backyard. Mmmm, Mom & Grandma have both made so many pies from it for the family! That's a good tree. He fed familes for a long time, and never complained when the kids would climb him and break his branches off. Since the Tree did good, could it be promoted to being an animal for it's actions in the next world?

The Creator which created the tree and the dogs could very well do something like this. He didn't have to explain it to us Humans because tree or animal promotion is not an issue nor is salvific in nature to man. Scripture tells us, that those whom are born agan and are saved, will one day be transformed into something new. An elevated plane of existance. So, to me at least, it would be possib;e for the Creator to be doing other things with the animals and plans here.
A clog of dirt becomes rock.
The rock becomes a mountain.
The mountain becomes vegetation and trees.
Trees become animals.
Animals become Human.
Humans become...the Family of God...!

Clues are in scripture, but not too concrete. I think it's just strange enough to perhaps be true.

Nice analogy I enjoyed the read.
Here's a parable about trees.

Jude 9
7When this was reported to Jotham, he climbed to the top of Mount Gerizim, raised his voice, and cried out: “Listen to me, O leaders of Shechem, and may God listen to you.

8One day the trees set out to anoint a king for themselves. They said to the olive tree, ‘Reign over us.’

9But the olive tree replied, ‘Should I stop giving my oil that honors both God and man, to hold sway over the trees?’

10Then the trees said to the fig tree, ‘Come and reign over us.’

11But the fig tree replied, ‘Should I stop giving my sweetness and my good fruit, to hold sway over the trees?’

12Then the trees said to the grapevine, ‘Come and reign over us.’

13But the grapevine replied, ‘Should I stop giving my wine that cheers both God and man, to hold sway over the trees?’

14Finally all the trees said to the thornbush, ‘Come and reign over us.’

15But the thornbush replied, ‘If you really are anointing me as king over you, come and find refuge in my shade. But if not, may fire come out of the thornbush and consume the cedars of Lebanon.’

 

[Anathemark]

It is true, properly understood and within its context. The main theme of Ecclesiastes is that apart from God, man's efforts on earth are meaningless. The passage in question is merely pointing out the mortality of man is like animals, that men die and return to the dust, the same as animals, and so has no advantage in that regard.

Is anyone claiming that theology is a science? It is a source of true knowledge about the world, like science, but no one is claiming that it is a science, that I have seen.

The author of Ecclesiastes made observations. As an explanation for these observations, he posited a deity. But deity is not testable, and makes no useful predictions. Some of the author's observations are false, some evidently true, and some may have an indeterminate truth value. But we can explain the observations without reference to any deity, simply reactions to environmental stimuli to include the physiological responses of the author. The point being: Ecclesiastes is not about science. It is observation without testable hypothesis or predictive value.

I did not post a question about science. I asked whether the cited verse, taken in context, was regarded as true or untrue.