Bible Study Are you a Legalist?

[Kidron]

-
In Galatians 1-3, the Apostle Paul refers and speaks to those who had once understood they are saved and kept by the Blood Atonement, but later got away from this truth and became convinced that the Blood Atonement which SAVED them, didnt keep them saved.
So they decided they needed to try to keep themselves saved in an effort to finish for Christ, what He had already finished for them on the Cross.
Paul said they moved from the Spirit, into the Flesh, when they did this.
He said they had become "bewitched", (deceived).
Paul says these "works and commandments to keep yourself saved" deceivers, "frustrate the Grace of God" .. Galatians 2:21

Paul said that these believers who had begun trying to save themselves, instead of trusting in Christ alone, had not only "fallen from Grace", Galatians 5:4, but had become the victims of "another Gospel"....Galatians 1:8
""I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:"""

Paul said that those who teach a "works to stay saved", "commandments" "water baptism to be saved", or "holding on to the end", type Gospel, ...." pervert the gospel of Christ." Galatians 1:7

Paul said that if any person preach any other Gospel then the one HE Preaches, then to let them be "cursed"... Galatians 1: 8 """But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.""

Paul said that these Christian commandment worshiping legalists resist and deny this scripture:

"""Knowing that a person is not justified by works of the law (keeping commandments), but only by the FAITH of Jesus Christ"...... Galatians 2:16

So, if any person is preaching (keeping commandments or works to stay saved or to be saved) or any other Gospel then the one Paul Preached, (Grace Through Faith)... then they are in a heretical situation that is not the one a believer or anyone wants to be involved in.

So, all these heresies are what these Galatian Christians (back in Pauls day as well as in our time) were and are teaching and preaching that IS "cursed", IS "another Gospel", and which proves they have "fallen from grace"... Galatians 5:4

They would have you fall from Grace as well.

Simply put.... they are preaching to you that YOU have to keep your salvation by doing commandments and works in an effort to keep yourself saved AFTER you are already saved by the Blood of Christ.
This is legalism, its the Devil' theology, its "another Gospel", and it has God's curse on it.

So, how do you know when someone is preaching this "another Gospel" to you?

Its very simple....They will tell you that you are Saved by Jesus, but if you dont do certain commandments or works AFTER you are SAVED BY THE BLOOD, then you are no longer saved.
Or, they will tell you that the FAITH you had that God accepted and then SAVED YOU,. that this very Salvation which has been applied to you as a "free Gift", has conditions (commandments to follow and works to do) that you MUST DO after you receive it, or you will lose your salvation.

Paul states the person who is teaching this ("another gospel") = that the Blood Atonement that saved you, is not permanent, did not complete your Salvation and SAVE YOU for eternity, but in fact is CONDITIONALLY BASED on your behavior + your >commandment keeping and works you do to keep yourself saved<... is teaching and preaching "Another GOSPEL" that is not only a lie, its the Devil's theology, and the person spreading it is "cursed" of God, according to The Apostle Paul.

 

[JLB]

In Galatians 1-3, the Apostle Paul refers and speaks to those who had once understood they are saved and kept by the Blood Atonement, but later got away from this truth and became convinced that the Blood Atonement which SAVED them, didnt keep them saved.
So they decided they needed to try to keep themselves saved in an effort to finish for Christ, what He had already finished for them on the Cross.
Paul said they moved from the Spirit, into the Flesh, when they did this.
He said they had become "bewitched", (deceived).
Paul says these "works and commandments to keep yourself saved" deceivers, "frustrate the Grace of God" .. Galatians 2:21

17 “But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.” Galatians 2:17-21


This context is referring to keeping the law of Moses, as well as becoming circumcised, in order to be saved.

I don't know of anyone who claims this?

Are you trying to teach that continuing to have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation is the same as keeping the law of Moses?


Please clarify that you understand the difference.



JLB

 

[jocor]

Or, they will tell you that the FAITH you had that God accepted and then SAVED YOU,. that this very Salvation which has been applied to you as a "free Gift", has conditions (commandments to follow and works to do) that you MUST DO after you receive it, or you will lose your salvation.

May I ask how you view the following verses in light of "conditions" to be saved?

John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.​

2 Timothy 2:11-12 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Heb 10:26-27 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Heb 6:4-8 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft upon it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God: But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.​

As I understand it, the primary condition to receive salvation is believe or have faith in Yeshua. If we do not continue to abide in him, but lose faith and renounce him/deny him, then we will be lost.

​

 

[Sinthesis]

Jhn 14:12 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
​

As a Christian you will do works. These works won't save you, aren't meant to save you, because you've already been saved. Does one who won't do works actually believe in Jesus Christ?

Jhn 14:15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.​

 

[th1b.taylor]

-
In Galatians 1-3, the Apostle Paul refers and speaks to those who had once understood they are saved and kept by the Blood Atonement, but later got away from this truth and became convinced that the Blood Atonement which SAVED them, didnt keep them saved.
So they decided they needed to try to keep themselves saved in an effort to finish for Christ, what He had already finished for them on the Cross.
Paul said they moved from the Spirit, into the Flesh, when they did this.
He said they had become "bewitched", (deceived).
Paul says these "works and commandments to keep yourself saved" deceivers, "frustrate the Grace of God" .. Galatians 2:21

Paul said that these believers who had begun trying to save themselves, instead of trusting in Christ alone, had not only "fallen from Grace", Galatians 5:4, but had become the victims of "another Gospel"....Galatians 1:8
""I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:"""

Paul said that those who teach a "works to stay saved", "commandments" "water baptism to be saved", or "holding on to the end", type Gospel, ...." pervert the gospel of Christ." Galatians 1:7

Paul said that if any person preach any other Gospel then the one HE Preaches, then to let them be "cursed"... Galatians 1: 8 """But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.""

Paul said that these Christian commandment worshiping legalists resist and deny this scripture:

"""Knowing that a person is not justified by works of the law (keeping commandments), but only by the FAITH of Jesus Christ"...... Galatians 2:16

So, if any person is preaching (keeping commandments or works to stay saved or to be saved) or any other Gospel then the one Paul Preached, (Grace Through Faith)... then they are in a heretical situation that is not the one a believer or anyone wants to be involved in.

So, all these heresies are what these Galatian Christians (back in Pauls day as well as in our time) were and are teaching and preaching that IS "cursed", IS "another Gospel", and which proves they have "fallen from grace"... Galatians 5:4

They would have you fall from Grace as well.

Simply put.... they are preaching to you that YOU have to keep your salvation by doing commandments and works in an effort to keep yourself saved AFTER you are already saved by the Blood of Christ.
This is legalism, its the Devil' theology, its "another Gospel", and it has God's curse on it.

So, how do you know when someone is preaching this "another Gospel" to you?

Its very simple....They will tell you that you are Saved by Jesus, but if you dont do certain commandments or works AFTER you are SAVED BY THE BLOOD, then you are no longer saved.
Or, they will tell you that the FAITH you had that God accepted and then SAVED YOU,. that this very Salvation which has been applied to you as a "free Gift", has conditions (commandments to follow and works to do) that you MUST DO after you receive it, or you will lose your salvation.

Paul states the person who is teaching this ("another gospel") = that the Blood Atonement that saved you, is not permanent, did not complete your Salvation and SAVE YOU for eternity, but in fact is CONDITIONALLY BASED on your behavior + your >commandment keeping and works you do to keep yourself saved<... is teaching and preaching "Another GOSPEL" that is not only a lie, its the Devil's theology, and the person spreading it is "cursed" of God, according to The Apostle Paul.

Good sermon, great lesson! Because I come very close to teaching that other gospel when teaching The Gospel. folks often freak out on me but the truth is in Matt. 7 Jesus taught us to Judge Righteously and to go to the Fruit produced. And so it is that I teach I know and friends know that I am saved, not because of my Works but, rather, by my works, fruit, that I do. And James made such a case to add to Paul's case concerning works, ¿important? perhaps but they do not put Jesus back on that damnable cross, the yare nothing more than viewable fruit.

Now, I pray folks will think before posting and not drag this into Satan's OSAS Gutter.

 

[th1b.taylor]

May I ask how you view the following verses in light of "conditions" to be saved?

John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.​

2 Timothy 2:11-12 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Heb 10:26-27 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Heb 6:4-8 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft upon it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God: But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.​

As I understand it, the primary condition to receive salvation is believe or have faith in Yeshua. If we do not continue to abide in him, but lose faith and renounce him/deny him, then we will be lost.

​

Kidron will need to give his answer but these verses all lend to one point, some will hear, understand, the Gospel and still walk away from it and I would add, for a variety of reasons instead of hiding it in their heart as the Followers of the Christ do.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Jhn 14:12 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
​

As a Christian you will do works. These works won't save you, aren't meant to save you, because you've already been saved. Does one who won't do works actually believe in Jesus Christ?

Jhn 14:15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.​

My reaction is to witness tryth to them and to pray for their souls and when one does as one member of these forums has done and continues to embrace a false gospel, I MUST cease casting pearls to be trodden at their feet and pray but to leave them to the Wrath of God.

 

[jocor]

Kidron will need to give his answer but these verses all lend to one point, some will hear, understand, the Gospel and still walk away from it and I would add, for a variety of reasons instead of hiding it in their heart as the Followers of the Christ do.

How long must a person hide the Gospel in his heart before he is considered a true Follower of Christ? If I hide it in my heart for 20 years, faithfully serving Yeshua, and then walk away because I allowed myself to be deceived by anti-missionaries that Yeshua really isn't the Messiah of Scripture, does that mean I was never really a true Follower of Christ?​

 

[reba]

Admin here lets remember we are in the Bible Study Forum.. Look to find that fine line between discussion and debate... Thanks
not necessarily directed at the last poster

 

[Chopper]

-
In Galatians 1-3, the Apostle Paul refers and speaks to those who had once understood they are saved and kept by the Blood Atonement, but later got away from this truth and became convinced that the Blood Atonement which SAVED them, didnt keep them saved.
So they decided they needed to try to keep themselves saved in an effort to finish for Christ, what He had already finished for them on the Cross.
Paul said they moved from the Spirit, into the Flesh, when they did this.
He said they had become "bewitched", (deceived).
Paul says these "works and commandments to keep yourself saved" deceivers, "frustrate the Grace of God" .. Galatians 2:21

Paul said that these believers who had begun trying to save themselves, instead of trusting in Christ alone, had not only "fallen from Grace", Galatians 5:4, but had become the victims of "another Gospel"....Galatians 1:8
""I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:"""

Paul said that those who teach a "works to stay saved", "commandments" "water baptism to be saved", or "holding on to the end", type Gospel, ...." pervert the gospel of Christ." Galatians 1:7

Paul said that if any person preach any other Gospel then the one HE Preaches, then to let them be "cursed"... Galatians 1: 8 """But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.""

Paul said that these Christian commandment worshiping legalists resist and deny this scripture:

"""Knowing that a person is not justified by works of the law (keeping commandments), but only by the FAITH of Jesus Christ"...... Galatians 2:16

So, if any person is preaching (keeping commandments or works to stay saved or to be saved) or any other Gospel then the one Paul Preached, (Grace Through Faith)... then they are in a heretical situation that is not the one a believer or anyone wants to be involved in.

So, all these heresies are what these Galatian Christians (back in Pauls day as well as in our time) were and are teaching and preaching that IS "cursed", IS "another Gospel", and which proves they have "fallen from grace"... Galatians 5:4

They would have you fall from Grace as well.

Simply put.... they are preaching to you that YOU have to keep your salvation by doing commandments and works in an effort to keep yourself saved AFTER you are already saved by the Blood of Christ.
This is legalism, its the Devil' theology, its "another Gospel", and it has God's curse on it.

So, how do you know when someone is preaching this "another Gospel" to you?

Its very simple....They will tell you that you are Saved by Jesus, but if you dont do certain commandments or works AFTER you are SAVED BY THE BLOOD, then you are no longer saved.
Or, they will tell you that the FAITH you had that God accepted and then SAVED YOU,. that this very Salvation which has been applied to you as a "free Gift", has conditions (commandments to follow and works to do) that you MUST DO after you receive it, or you will lose your salvation.

Paul states the person who is teaching this ("another gospel") = that the Blood Atonement that saved you, is not permanent, did not complete your Salvation and SAVE YOU for eternity, but in fact is CONDITIONALLY BASED on your behavior + your >commandment keeping and works you do to keep yourself saved<... is teaching and preaching "Another GOSPEL" that is not only a lie, its the Devil's theology, and the person spreading it is "cursed" of God, according to The Apostle Paul.

Kidron, all of your Scriptures and your line of thinking deals with the Gospel as far as the biblical path to Salvation. They have nothing to do with the Christian life after being born again. Galatians deals with what the Apostle Paul described as "another Gospel" in which Legalism, as you say, or Judiazers maintained that keeping Moses Law was necessary for Salvation. Paul is not speaking about works after Salvation, his emphasis is before Salvation.

I honestly cannot figure out why you're taking this stand of taking works out of the Christians life after he/she is saved when the Scriptures are abundant with teaching that works are necessary to, not only prove one's position of being born again, but works will be evaluated at the Great White Throne of Christ Jesus, and will be judged on that person's works. I will put my belief very plainly here, "NO WORKS, NO SALVATION!!"

One Scripture that stands out to me on works post Salvation is....Philippians 2:12 "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

I'll list a few of many Scriptures that teach the Believers to produce "good works" as proving ones position as being born again. Not only that but, backsliding is the ceasing of good works, and if that continues, it simply proves the lack of genuine Salvation.

Matthew 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." These words originate from Christ Jesus Himself, not man.

Matthew 26:10 "When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me."

John 5:36 "But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me."

John 14:12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1John 5:2 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."

1Corinthians 3:13 "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward."

Revelation 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

To conclude, Salvation is by faith alone, presented to the sinner by the Grace of Almighty God. There appears to be a "work of obedience" when believing on Christ Jesus for Salvation. A person either obeys the Gospel call, or disobeys the presentation of the Gospel by the Holy Spirit.

 

[th1b.taylor]

How long must a person hide the Gospel in his heart before he is considered a true Follower of Christ? If I hide it in my heart for 20 years, faithfully serving Yeshua, and then walk away because I allowed myself to be deceived by anti-missionaries that Yeshua really isn't the Messiah of Scripture, does that mean I was never really a true Follower of Christ?​

Jocor, it is a never ending life style.

 

[jocor]

Jocor, it is a never ending life style.

I would say it is a lifestyle that never ends as long as you abide in Yeshua. If we renounce him, then the verses in post #3 will be fulfilled. Why would Yeshua want to be married to someone who no longer loves him and doesn't want to be married to him?

 

[smaller]

Paul was undoubtedly a Spiritual Legalist:

Romans 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

I believe Paul captures the conundrum involved with the law(s) in that single statement. How? We know the law is spiritual. On this basis it can not be tossed legitimately aside. Nevertheless following the law does not and can not make anyone sinless. And yes, that is a purposeful Divine conundrum for which there is no resolution nor has a resolution been provided by Paul or the N.T. in general.

We can extol the virtues of works all the day long, but that still does not grant any worker the status of sinlessness, which sin the laws are and will remain against.

Paul goes even further to say that the natural man can't even understand the law, let alone submit to it:

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

When anyone says "works" they are also saying follow the law. Some make up their own laws. When works include a penalty for not doing works, then whatever work that is is a law. And not doing it presents the potential penalty. That is the essence of any law. No work equaling an eternal penalty is a law.

Believers certainly double deal this subject. For example, they avoid and deny the conclusions of law, that we are sinners, that sin is condemned under the law, and that there is no way to avoid the conclusion we are sinners. And they claim exemptions to these IMMOVABLE FACTS based on works or legal compliance where NO COMPLIANCE is available.

The conclusion here is that no matter what works any person does they remain sinners saved and savable only by the Grace and Mercy of God in Christ.

Paul examples this theological conundrum, a conundrum being an unsolvable puzzle, in most of his writings. In Galatians 5:17 he again shows us that the Spirit is against and contrary to the flesh and vice versa. This won't change for anyone no matter how much work they pile on top of this fact or how much legalism is piled on top of the fact.

In the end, we are still sinners saved and saveable solely by the Grace and Mercy of God in Christ Jesus.

What is the Divine Intention here? This conundrum is presented to us in order for us to bear the fruit of HONESTY. We just honestly can not 'dodge' or 'get around' the fact that we are sinners and that our flesh is contrary to the Spirit and against the Spirit---PERIOD. This honesty, this fruit of the Spirit allows us to enter into the Spiritual aspect of the laws and actually love our neighbors as ourselves, knowing full well that they are in the exact same condition as we are when it comes to being sinners. We work for the rewards. Not working for a believer only results in LESS reward or even no reward other than salvation.

The question is, in the end, are we legalists? The answer to that is YES. We are for the law because it is rightfully against sin. But when we say that we also say that the law is against us because we are sinners.

This is not a hard place to go for the honest. When we accept this conclusion, we also understand "works" in the same light. No work is sufficient to avoid the fact that we are sinners. We are not and can not become sinless by works nor can we be saved by them. Believers who attach eternal penalties to themselves over NON works simply have no understanding of what they are doing to themselves. They have only placed themselves under another, SELF SUBSCRIBED form of LAW with a penalty of potential eternal damnation attached to themselves for not doing them. Not one bit different in this regard than the law itself.

What is the bottom line with both works and law? Paul provides the answer to this in Romans 13, and AGAIN shows that the conundrum, the unsolvable puzzle still exists for us:

8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And here, Paul again trots out the conundrum involved:

11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Paul is not justifying his own sorry hide in the above. He shows us that we all have works of darkness to cast off, that we are asleep in the spiritual senses when we are not Spiritually LEGAL, and that the flesh does have LUSTS which are against the Spirit.

We are in these efforts, UNDER the walking conundrum. But to put yourself under a penalty for non-performance is only putting one's self BACK under the LAW in the Old Testament fashion. It should not be done. Loving is not that hard to do. God in Christ will finalize making a remedy for SIN when we obtain our changed body from it's current VILE state, Phil. 3:3, but AS GOD HAS COMMANDED, let the Light of Love shine from the darkness it is currently planted in. In this you will walk HONESTLY and you have your own reward already in hand when doing so. Who has not felt the PRESENCE OF GOD HIMSELF in loving? I have this, His Presence, ALWAYS.

If we can't love our neighbors as ourselves, we have ZERO works and ZERO legal compliance, Spiritually speaking. In that state we remain asleep spiritually speaking, and under the covers of darkness. I believe God in Christ will save such believers in any case, and will save all who are wrongheaded on these matters by His Grace, any who have called upon Him to do so. Why? Because in order to truly love another believer as myself, I must see them in the SAME LIGHT as I WANT to see myself. And this is how the PRESENT REWARD is amplified among those who carry this in hand. Whether another can see it for themselves really doesn't matter. It is a personal reward in the carrier of honesty.

 

[JohnDB]

I would say it is a lifestyle that never ends as long as you abide in Yeshua. If we renounce him, then the verses in post #3 will be fulfilled. Why would Yeshua want to be married to someone who no longer loves him and doesn't want to be married to him?

Well mostly because you are not a Christian is the reason why you do not understand this.

A Christian lifestyle is undefined by definition. It's not that the Law is bad...but that it's only training wheels.
There's better than this that only Christians understand. (Which you are not)

 

[jocor]

Well mostly because you are not a Christian is the reason why you do not understand this.

A Christian lifestyle is undefined by definition. It's not that the Law is bad...but that it's only training wheels.
There's better than this that only Christians understand. (Which you are not)

I am not a Christian, but I am just as much of a believer as any Christian on this forum. One does not need to bear the name "Christian" to be a follower of Messiah Yeshua. Nor does one need to bear the name "Christian" in order to be led by the Holy Spirit in how to rightly divide the Word. Instead of attacking my faith and breaking the ToS (2.4), why don't you contribute some Biblical teaching to this thread?

 

[JohnDB]

I am not a Christian, but I am just as much of a believer as any Christian on this forum. One does not need to bear the name "Christian" to be a follower of Messiah Yeshua. Nor does one need to bear the name "Christian" in order to be led by the Holy Spirit in how to rightly divide the Word. Instead of attacking my faith and breaking the ToS (2.4), why don't you contribute some Biblical teaching to this thread?

Not attacking your faith.
Are you stating a complete reversal of your previous statements?
Are you now stating that Jesus is God?

Context and word games don't cut it.

Either to you Jesus is God and you are a Christian or Jesus was just a "good guy" and you are not a Christian.

The difference is that Personal relationship with Jesus that writes the laws individual to us on our hearts.

 

[jocor]

Not attacking your faith.

Saying I don't understand because I am not a Christian is saying my faith cannot lead me to understanding.

Are you stating a complete reversal of your previous statements?
Are you now stating that Jesus is God?

I made no statements about God in this thread. Why are you bringing up theology in a thread about legalism?

Context and word games don't cut it.

Either to you Jesus is God and you are a Christian or Jesus was just a "good guy" and you are not a Christian.

I already said I am not a Christian. What part of that do you not understand?

The difference is that Personal relationship with Jesus that writes the laws individual to us on our hearts.

I have that "Personal relationship" with Yeshua. The Law is written on my heart. That is why I endeavor to obey it. The promise of the New Covenant was to write Torah on our hearts and minds (Jer 31:31-33). Yahweh did not say He would only write laws that were "individual to us" on our hearts.

 

[reba]

We are in the Bible Study forum

 

[Chopper]

Kidron, why can't you see that works of righteousness are to identify a person's position in Christ Jesus. There are several passages that teach that faith without works are dead, in other words, If I were to follow your instructions, after believing on Jesus for my Salvation, I would just keep on with my ordinary life. Don't you think that's wrong? How then do you propose that your person without works prove he's a true Christian? Please answer these questions.

Please study the following Scripture in light of your peculiar teaching....1Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

A man's work is terribly important because little works equals little reward at Christ's Throne. Many good works, equals many rewards.
We all know that our Salvation is based on Christ Jesus alone, and works don't add any value to what Jesus accomplished for us on the cross.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?