At what point is the blood applied?

[Cnkw3]

I see over and over….We are saved/cleansed/ etc. by the blood of Jesus.
I believe this to be a true statement.
We all know that Jesus shed his blood for the whole world. We find it in passages like Titus 2:11, Col 1:20, and passages like Jn 3:16 could not be true if he didnt. So, in order for one to be “saved” by the blood, there MUST be something one MUST do in order to have the blood applied. We know it doesn’t just happen or everybody would be saved. So………
The important question is….
At what point are we saved/cleansed/washed/etc. by the blood of Jesus?

(In full disclosure I think the Bible is pretty clear at what that point is but I want to see how others reason this out)

 

[brightfame52]

A person Christ died for is immediately washed by His Blood, thats why Christ rose from the grave after He died for their sins. He was because His Death/Blood Justified them before God, God accepted His Blood in their behalf. Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Rev 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

See the fact that He was slain, redeemed them unto God by His Blood. Thats what Faith believes !

 

[Cnkw3]

A person Christ died for is immediately washed by His Blood, thats why Christ rose from the grave after He died for their sins. He was because His Death/Blood Justified them before God, God accepted His Blood in their behalf. Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Rev 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

See the fact that He was slain, redeemed them unto God by His Blood. Thats what Faith believes !

Christ died for all men.
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 1 Tim 4:10
For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
2 Corinthians 5:14-15
But we know not all men are saved. So the Bible must tell us when the blood is applied? You are speaking in general just like everybody else. All I hear is…..the blood saves, the blood saves.

What I want to know is at what point does the blood wash away sins?
Paul in Acts 17 says…God now commands all men everywhere to repent.
So, does the blood save someone at the point of repentance? If so, then one should be able to connect repentance with the blood removing sins.
This passage in acts 17 proves that the blood is not applied at the point of belief because one cannot obey the command to repent until after belief. Another passage that proves that the blood cannot be applied at the point of belief is Rom 10:13-15. One MUST believe before they call and salvation doesn’t happen (therefore blood applied) until AFTER calling on the name of the Lord. There is a clear progression in that Rom 10 passage.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ died for all men.
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 1 Tim 4:10
For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
2 Corinthians 5:14-15
But we know not all men are saved. So the Bible must tell us when the blood is applied? You are speaking in general just like everybody else. All I hear is…..the blood saves, the blood saves.

What I want to know is at what point does the blood wash away sins?
Paul in Acts 17 says…God now commands all men everywhere to repent.
So, does the blood save someone at the point of repentance? If so, then one should be able to connect repentance with the blood removing sins.
This passage in acts 17 proves that the blood is not applied at the point of belief because one cannot obey the command to repent until after belief. Another passage that proves that the blood cannot be applied at the point of belief is Rom 10:13-15. One MUST believe before they call and salvation doesn’t happen (therefore blood applied) until AFTER calling on the name of the Lord. There is a clear progression in that Rom 10 passage.

Christ died only for His Elect, and the Blood was applied to them exclusively.

 

[Cnkw3]

Christ died only for His Elect, and the Blood was applied to them exclusively.

At what point was the blood applied? If salvation does not come to everyone then there MUST be a point in time when the blood is applied and salvation or remission of sins occurs. That is what the blood does……it removes/remits/washes away sins.
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Matthew 26:28

This is what this conversation is about. I have had a number of people tell me they were saved by the blood. But NOBODY will show me through the Bible exactly when and at what point they were saved from their sins by the blood.
Im quite surprised there has not been more participation because I thought the people on this board loved the blood of Christ and couldn’t wait to talk about it in detail. Guess not..

 

[brightfame52]

cnkw3

At what point was the blood applied?

Legally it was applied at the cross when Christ died, and prior to the sinner believing in Christ, else how could the sinner be reconciled to God while being an enemie as per Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we[believers] were enemies[unbelievers], we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So for an enemie to be reconciled to God, the Blood of Christ had to already been applied to their account with God, else an enemie, unbeliever is already condemned Jn 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

So legally before the court of Gods Justice, the Blood has been applied at the Cross to them Christ died for. And that ensures even further application in the spiritual realm.

 

[Cnkw3]

cnkw3



Legally it was applied at the cross when Christ died, and prior to the sinner believing in Christ, else how could the sinner be reconciled to God while being an enemie as per Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we[believers] were enemies[unbelievers], we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So for an enemie to be reconciled to God, the Blood of Christ had to already been applied to their account with God, else an enemie, unbeliever is already condemned Jn 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

So legally before the court of Gods Justice, the Blood has been applied at the Cross to them Christ died for. And that ensures even further application in the spiritual realm.

If it is so called “legally” that would mean you could find it in Gods law. Nothing you posted says that the blood is applied “prior to the sinner believing”. That would mean all men are saved and we know they aren’t. That would also contradict clear Bible teaching such as.….He that believes and is baptized will be saved. That passage would be a lie if the blood which brings salvation is applied even before a person believes and we know God doesn’t lie.
But I think i see where you are going with this. You believe that God has selected (the elect) certain individuals who will be saved and therefore applies the blood, even though they don’t even know it yet. Well, we know that doctrine is completely false because of the many passages that offer salvation to “whosoever will”.

 

[brightfame52]

If it is so called “legally” that would mean you could find it in Gods law. Nothing you posted says that the blood is applied “prior to the sinner believing”. That would mean all men are saved and we know they aren’t. That would also contradict clear Bible teaching such as.….He that believes and is baptized will be saved. That passage would be a lie if the blood which brings salvation is applied even before a person believes and we know God doesn’t lie.
But I think i see where you are going with this. You believe that God has selected (the elect) certain individuals who will be saved and therefore applies the blood, even though they don’t even know it yet. Well, we know that doctrine is completely false because of the many passages that offer salvation to “whosoever will”.

The sinners Christ died for, are by His death, dead to the Law, thats legally Rom 7:4

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Now according to Pauls statement here, how did these believers become dead to the Law ?

 

[Cnkw3]

The sinners Christ died for, are by His death, dead to the Law, thats legally Rom 7:4

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Now according to Pauls statement here, how did these believers become dead to the Law ?

They are dead to the law (old law Rom 7:1) because they under the new law (married to another). The law of Christ. That law says that the church which is the body is now the “Israel of God”. Gal 6:16. How does one get into the body or into Christ? They are baptized into Christ. Read the previous chapter..
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Romans 6:3-5
These are the elect. The members of the body of Christ. Those who God chose before the world began. Eph 3:6-11
Those who would believe and be baptized would be saved. Mk 16:16

 

[brightfame52]

They are dead to the law (old law Rom 7:1) because they under the new law (married to another). The law of Christ. That law says that the church which is the body is now the “Israel of God”. Gal 6:16. How does one get into the body or into Christ? They are baptized into Christ. Read the previous chapter..
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Romans 6:3-5
These are the elect. The members of the body of Christ. Those who God chose before the world began. Eph 3:6-11
Those who would believe and be baptized would be saved. Mk 16:16

You in error, being dead to the law by Christs death has nothing to do with water baptism lol. The elect were dead to the before they were even born into this world. Christ died for them, and took care of the laws condemnation of them before they were born. In fact When Christ died for them, they were baptized into His Death because of their legal union with Him when He died. Thats why Paul said, and it includes all for whom He died, I was crucified with Christ Gal 2:20

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

And we know Christ called His Death a baptism Matt 20:22

But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

 

[Cnkw3]

You in error, being dead to the law by Christs death has nothing to do with water baptism lol.

Then what does this mean….
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:4
What do you do to dead people? You bury them. Where do we find Christ blood? In his death. This is explaining the born again process. What does water baptism symbolize? A burial! It looks just like one..
You die to sin, you are buried in baptism, and then raised to walk in newness of life.
“New life”? BORN AGAIN!

 

[brightfame52]

Then what does this mean….
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:4
What do you do to dead people? You bury them. Where do we find Christ blood? In his death. This is explaining the born again process. What does water baptism symbolize? A burial! It looks just like one..
You die to sin, you are buried in baptism, and then raised to walk in newness of life.
“New life”? BORN AGAIN!

Why are you asking me what it means when I have already told you ? That doesnt make sense. Plus I showed you what the scripture said. According to Rom 7:4 how were they dead to the Law

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

 

[Cnkw3]

Why are you asking me what it means when I have already told you ? That doesnt make sense. Plus I showed you what the scripture said. According to Rom 7:4 how were they dead to the Law

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

I’m asking because you said this….
“You in error, being dead to the law by Christs death has nothing to do with water baptism lol.”
I then backed up ONE chapter and found where Paul specifically tied “being dead” to water baptism. He said…
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:2
You think you can be “dead to sin” and still be under the law? No. Paul said if you seek to be justified by the law you have fallen from grace. Gal 5:4
He then said…
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Romans 6:3-5
He is specifically tying water Baptism to the death and resurrection of Christ and entrance into the body. They were “buried” with him. You bury dead people. The blood is applied in baptism. The blood is found in his death. The blood is found “in Christ”. We are baptized “into Christ”. This is a beautiful description of what it means to “obey the gospel” which is the new law of Christ. Far different from the old.
You said becoming dead to the law has nothing to do with baptism and Paul says it does. It is the new law of Christ that commanded all men be baptized for the remission of sins, to get into Christ/the body. So when you obey the new law you are dying to the old. That is what he means by…”being married to another”.

 

[brightfame52]

I’m asking because you said this….
“You in error, being dead to the law by Christs death has nothing to do with water baptism lol.”
I then backed up ONE chapter and found where Paul specifically tied “being dead” to water baptism. He said…
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:2
You think you can be “dead to sin” and still be under the law? No. Paul said if you seek to be justified by the law you have fallen from grace. Gal 5:4
He then said…
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Romans 6:3-5
He is specifically tying water Baptism to the death and resurrection of Christ and entrance into the body. They were “buried” with him. You bury dead people. The blood is applied in baptism. The blood is found in his death. The blood is found “in Christ”. We are baptized “into Christ”. This is a beautiful description of what it means to “obey the gospel” which is the new law of Christ. Far different from the old.
You said becoming dead to the law has nothing to do with baptism and Paul says it does. It is the new law of Christ that commanded all men be baptized for the remission of sins, to get into Christ/the body. So when you obey the new law you are dying to the old. That is what he means by…”being married to another”.

You going way off, its simple. Believers were made dead to the Law by Christs death, it says so simply Rom 7:4

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

And I have stated this several times already !

 

[Cnkw3]

You going way off, its simple. Believers were made dead to the Law by Christs death, it says so simply Rom 7:4

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

And I have stated this several times already !

I guess if you repeat something enough it becomes truth. I get it now.

 

[Sas123]

sacrifice-the full and final offering for the sin of the world.
Hebrews 9:22- And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

 

[brightfame52]

I guess if you repeat something enough it becomes truth. I get it now.

Rom 7:4 is Truth, sad you dont see it that way, even though its been repeated to you.

 

[Cnkw3]

sacrifice-the full and final offering for the sin of the world.
Hebrews 9:22- And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

You are correct. Without the blood there is no remission. Now, when does the NT say we receive “remission of sins” which therefore means the blood has been applied? we know that not just everybody receives remission of sins so there must be some point in time when exactly at that point a person receives remission/salvation/the blood of Christ.

 

[Cnkw3]

Rom 7:4 is Truth, sad you dont see it that way, even though its been repeated to you.

Is Rom 6 truth? Cause Paul, right before Rom 7, in a chapter where he has been describing baptism and what happens in baptism he said this..
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Romans 6:17-18
I would like to think you would agree that a person can’t be freed from the law until AFTER they have been made free from sin? When did this happen to those in Rome? After obeying that form of doctrine that was delivered to them. What form of doctrine, in this context, has he been breaking down for them? Water baptism. That is how they got into “the body of Christ“ in the first place. Rom 6:3

 

[brightfame52]

Is Rom 6 truth? Cause Paul, right before Rom 7, in a chapter where he has been describing baptism and what happens in baptism he said this..
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Romans 6:17-18
I would like to think you would agree that a person can’t be freed from the law until AFTER they have been made free from sin? When did this happen to those in Rome? After obeying that form of doctrine that was delivered to them. What form of doctrine, in this context, has he been breaking down for them? Water baptism. That is how they got into “the body of Christ“ in the first place. Rom 6:3

All of Romans is Truth, and that includes Rom 7:4

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Believers had been made dead to the law by the body of Christ which simply means His Death. His Death for them put away their sins against Gods Law ! If you dont believe that, i feel sorry for you. In fact, if you dot believe that, there would be no reason to even get water baptized because you dont believe what it symbolizes.