Been there, done that

[Runner]

I’ll just start this thread right here in Unorthodox Land to spare the administrators the trouble of moving it.

I had a startling and completely unanticipated born-again experience in 1970 on a day when my interest in Jesus was less than zero. I very quickly became a campus leader with Campus Crusade for Christ and the Baptist Student Union. I entered Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary upon the recommendation of a bevy of pastors. Campus Crusade tried to recruit me to join the staff.

It took a couple of years before I said, “I don’t really believe most of this stuff. I’m pretending to believe things I simply don’t.”

While not rejecting or discarding my born-again experience, I embarked on a massive quest to discover what I really did and could believe.

That quest concerned itself with questions like the nature of reality; the nature of consciousness and its possible survival after death; whether atheism, deism or theism provided the best explanation; and, if theism did, which version of theism. I built my belief system on the basis of my experiences, observations, studies, reflection and intuition.

Perhaps 20 years ago, I decided Christianity did, in fact, provide the best explanation. I accepted the reality of my born-again experience and adopted Christianity as the “working template” for my belief system.

Over the past 20 years, I’ve spent more time in Christian history, Christian theology (systematic and biblical) and Christian apologetics than most of you ever will. I’m talking about thousands of books and articles exploring Christianity from every possible perspective.

As I’ve matured to the age of 72+, I’ve come to peace with the simple reality that I’m never going to pretend to believe things I simply don’t believe and am constitutionally incapable of believing. I don’t think God wants this or would be pleased by it.

My Christianity is a very basic set of what I call “Christian essentials” that is far more generic than any of the standard creeds or statements of faith. It does, however, express what I genuinely believe about God and his plan for humans and what I think it means to be a Christian.

No, I don’t believe the Bible is inerrant or to be taken literally. It teaches broad spiritual truths, not history or science. I believe Jesus was talking far more about how we live than what we believe. I believe it’s unfortunate that the Gospel of John and Revelation have achieved such prominence in evangelical circles. I doubt very seriously that the Creator of the Universe is going to be sending billions of Buddhists, Hindus, et al., to hell.

I don’t “disbelieve” the doctrines many of you regard as essential. I simply don’t “believe” them either. If there is, in fact, something like hell, I trust we’ll see in the end how it’s worthy of the perfectly wise, perfectly just, perfectly holy, perfectly loving God in whom we trust. Ditto for the Trinity. I think it's a human way of trying to come to grips with an unfathomable mystery - but if it's lterally true, fine.

I concern myself only with my relationship with God. I focus on my communion with God and my day-to-day reliance on the Holy Spirit. I’ve seen too much evidence of the providence of God in my own life, and the transformation of the person I was 50 years ago, to think I’m on the wrong path.

The Bible? Eh. I once joked that I think all believers should read the Bible three times the first year, then put it away and forget about it. In my opinion, Biblicism and Bibliolatry are the most embarrassing. destructive aspects of evangelical Christianity. I’ll pick up the Bible and read a few pages for edification, but isn’t the cosmic Ouija board of my life.

You’re aghast? You don’t think I’m a Christian at all? Fine. It’s water off my back.

If you’re a Bible-thumping, Flat Earth-believing, Young Earth Creationist sort of Christian who thinks every book but the Bible is demon-inspired and any use of our intellects is the path to hell – hey, go for it! Hide away in permanent Vacation Bible School if you think it makes God happy. That’s one species of Christianity, too. There are lots and lots of species of Christianity.

My guess is, God is either laughing or weeping, or maybe both, at the spectacle “Christianity” has become. Much of it, I believe, is close to a mental illness and about as far from what Jesus was talking about as it could get. But it has become what it has become, and all I can control is the Church of What Runner Believes that exists in my own heart and mind.

If my approach bothers you, if it isn’t welcome on these forums – well, too bad. Been there, done that – and don’t ever want to go back.

 

[Hopeful]

I’ll just start this thread right here in Unorthodox Land to spare the administrators the trouble of moving it.

I had a startling and completely unanticipated born-again experience in 1970 on a day when my interest in Jesus was less than zero. I very quickly became a campus leader with Campus Crusade for Christ and the Baptist Student Union. I entered Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary upon the recommendation of a bevy of pastors. Campus Crusade tried to recruit me to join the staff.

It took a couple of years before I said, “I don’t really believe most of this stuff. I’m pretending to believe things I simply don’t.”

While not rejecting or discarding my born-again experience, I embarked on a massive quest to discover what I really did and could believe.

That quest concerned itself with questions like the nature of reality; the nature of consciousness and its possible survival after death; whether atheism, deism or theism provided the best explanation; and, if theism did, which version of theism. I built my belief system on the basis of my experiences, observations, studies, reflection and intuition.

Perhaps 20 years ago, I decided Christianity did, in fact, provide the best explanation. I accepted the reality of my born-again experience and adopted Christianity as the “working template” for my belief system.

Over the past 20 years, I’ve spent more time in Christian history, Christian theology (systematic and biblical) and Christian apologetics than most of you ever will. I’m talking about thousands of books and articles exploring Christianity from every possible perspective.

As I’ve matured to the age of 72+, I’ve come to peace with the simple reality that I’m never going to pretend to believe things I simply don’t believe and am constitutionally incapable of believing. I don’t think God wants this or would be pleased by it.

My Christianity is a very basic set of what I call “Christian essentials” that is far more generic than any of the standard creeds or statements of faith. It does, however, express what I genuinely believe about God and his plan for humans and what I think it means to be a Christian.

No, I don’t believe the Bible is inerrant or to be taken literally. It teaches broad spiritual truths, not history or science. I believe Jesus was talking far more about how we live than what we believe. I believe it’s unfortunate that the Gospel of John and Revelation have achieved such prominence in evangelical circles. I doubt very seriously that the Creator of the Universe is going to be sending billions of Buddhists, Hindus, et al., to hell.

I don’t “disbelieve” the doctrines many of you regard as essential. I simply don’t “believe” them either. If there is, in fact, something like hell, I trust we’ll see in the end how it’s worthy of the perfectly wise, perfectly just, perfectly holy, perfectly loving God in whom we trust. Ditto for the Trinity. I think it's a human way of trying to come to grips with an unfathomable mystery - but if it's lterally true, fine.

I concern myself only with my relationship with God. I focus on my communion with God and my day-to-day reliance on the Holy Spirit. I’ve seen too much evidence of the providence of God in my own life, and the transformation of the person I was 50 years ago, to think I’m on the wrong path.

The Bible? Eh. I once joked that I think all believers should read the Bible three times the first year, then put it away and forget about it. In my opinion, Biblicism and Bibliolatry are the most embarrassing. destructive aspects of evangelical Christianity. I’ll pick up the Bible and read a few pages for edification, but isn’t the cosmic Ouija board of my life.

You’re aghast? You don’t think I’m a Christian at all? Fine. It’s water off my back.

If you’re a Bible-thumping, Flat Earth-believing, Young Earth Creationist sort of Christian who thinks every book but the Bible is demon-inspired and any use of our intellects is the path to hell – hey, go for it! Hide away in permanent Vacation Bible School if you think it makes God happy. That’s one species of Christianity, too. There are lots and lots of species of Christianity.

My guess is, God is either laughing or weeping, or maybe both, at the spectacle “Christianity” has become. Much of it, I believe, is close to a mental illness and about as far from what Jesus was talking about as it could get. But it has become what it has become, and all I can control is the Church of What Runner Believes that exists in my own heart and mind.

If my approach bothers you, if it isn’t welcome on these forums – well, too bad. Been there, done that – and don’t ever want to go back.

Have your beliefs enabled you to live without sinning?
Wouldn't that be the evidence of your having been reborn?

 

[evenifigoalone]

I think the essential doctrines are primarily rested around the reality of Jesus. Ie, did He exist, was He born of a virgin, is He the atonement for our collective sin, did He rise from the dead, and is He to return again one day.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I’ll just start this thread right here in Unorthodox Land to spare the administrators the trouble of moving it.

I had a startling and completely unanticipated born-again experience in 1970 on a day when my interest in Jesus was less than zero. I very quickly became a campus leader with Campus Crusade for Christ and the Baptist Student Union. I entered Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary upon the recommendation of a bevy of pastors. Campus Crusade tried to recruit me to join the staff.

It took a couple of years before I said, “I don’t really believe most of this stuff. I’m pretending to believe things I simply don’t.”

While not rejecting or discarding my born-again experience, I embarked on a massive quest to discover what I really did and could believe.

That quest concerned itself with questions like the nature of reality; the nature of consciousness and its possible survival after death; whether atheism, deism or theism provided the best explanation; and, if theism did, which version of theism. I built my belief system on the basis of my experiences, observations, studies, reflection and intuition.

Perhaps 20 years ago, I decided Christianity did, in fact, provide the best explanation. I accepted the reality of my born-again experience and adopted Christianity as the “working template” for my belief system.

Over the past 20 years, I’ve spent more time in Christian history, Christian theology (systematic and biblical) and Christian apologetics than most of you ever will. I’m talking about thousands of books and articles exploring Christianity from every possible perspective.

As I’ve matured to the age of 72+, I’ve come to peace with the simple reality that I’m never going to pretend to believe things I simply don’t believe and am constitutionally incapable of believing. I don’t think God wants this or would be pleased by it.

My Christianity is a very basic set of what I call “Christian essentials” that is far more generic than any of the standard creeds or statements of faith. It does, however, express what I genuinely believe about God and his plan for humans and what I think it means to be a Christian.

No, I don’t believe the Bible is inerrant or to be taken literally. It teaches broad spiritual truths, not history or science. I believe Jesus was talking far more about how we live than what we believe. I believe it’s unfortunate that the Gospel of John and Revelation have achieved such prominence in evangelical circles. I doubt very seriously that the Creator of the Universe is going to be sending billions of Buddhists, Hindus, et al., to hell.

I don’t “disbelieve” the doctrines many of you regard as essential. I simply don’t “believe” them either. If there is, in fact, something like hell, I trust we’ll see in the end how it’s worthy of the perfectly wise, perfectly just, perfectly holy, perfectly loving God in whom we trust. Ditto for the Trinity. I think it's a human way of trying to come to grips with an unfathomable mystery - but if it's lterally true, fine.

I concern myself only with my relationship with God. I focus on my communion with God and my day-to-day reliance on the Holy Spirit. I’ve seen too much evidence of the providence of God in my own life, and the transformation of the person I was 50 years ago, to think I’m on the wrong path.

The Bible? Eh. I once joked that I think all believers should read the Bible three times the first year, then put it away and forget about it. In my opinion, Biblicism and Bibliolatry are the most embarrassing. destructive aspects of evangelical Christianity. I’ll pick up the Bible and read a few pages for edification, but isn’t the cosmic Ouija board of my life.

You’re aghast? You don’t think I’m a Christian at all? Fine. It’s water off my back.

If you’re a Bible-thumping, Flat Earth-believing, Young Earth Creationist sort of Christian who thinks every book but the Bible is demon-inspired and any use of our intellects is the path to hell – hey, go for it! Hide away in permanent Vacation Bible School if you think it makes God happy. That’s one species of Christianity, too. There are lots and lots of species of Christianity.

My guess is, God is either laughing or weeping, or maybe both, at the spectacle “Christianity” has become. Much of it, I believe, is close to a mental illness and about as far from what Jesus was talking about as it could get. But it has become what it has become, and all I can control is the Church of What Runner Believes that exists in my own heart and mind.

If my approach bothers you, if it isn’t welcome on these forums – well, too bad. Been there, done that – and don’t ever want to go back.

I have to say I’m very glad you’re back and please stay. I found your post refreshing. “At last” was my hearts response.

I’m closer to your age but still younger…..and started asking questions in my 20s. I think there wasn’t much I didn’t question except God being there. Of that I do not doubt. For a space I didn’t want Him anymore but I didn’t think He wasn’t there (which is a cop-out to me.)

I can tell you I’ve found answers to my questions that intellectually satisfied me. And yes, they are not main stream (not found in the Bible) answers theologians concocted. I don’t know much, but what I know is pretty solid as I’ve tested it in life. I’m not afraid of any question.

I think you are in for the delightful experiences of understanding matters you desires to look into. Not from me, and not necessarily here, but in general. You seem to have a love for the truth even at personal risk and those people find especially satisfying having real understanding. It thrills me to think of the joy awaiting you.

Is there something you’d like to discuss?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

My view of the Bible is this. It is useful for teaching, correction and training in becoming righteous as Jesus intends us to be, not more and not less. God spoke through a donkey once and that beast didn’t become inerrant nor perfect. He didn’t have to be.

 

[Consecrated Life]

I had a startling and completely unanticipated born-again experience in 1970 on a day when my interest in Jesus was less than zero.

, “I don’t really believe most of this stuff. I’m pretending to believe things I simply don’t.”

Could you give an example of the line you are not able to step over concerning belief in this "stuff" about Jesus ?
I ask the question assuming it can't be all "stuff" concerning Him ?
For instance there are many completely atheist academics who have no problem attesting with 100% historical certainty that there was a Jewish religious figure named Jesus Christ who was put to death by roman execution 2000 years ago.
They make no claim to having a historical certainty about anything more than that, yet they claim historical basis for His existence completely trustworthy.
Is it safe to say this is one of the "things" you believe ?

 

[Mister E]

I’ll just start this thread right here in Unorthodox Land to spare the administrators the trouble of moving it.

I had a startling and completely unanticipated born-again experience in 1970 on a day when my interest in Jesus was less than zero. I very quickly became a campus leader with Campus Crusade for Christ and the Baptist Student Union. I entered Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary upon the recommendation of a bevy of pastors. Campus Crusade tried to recruit me to join the staff.

It took a couple of years before I said, “I don’t really believe most of this stuff. I’m pretending to believe things I simply don’t.”

While not rejecting or discarding my born-again experience, I embarked on a massive quest to discover what I really did and could believe.

That quest concerned itself with questions like the nature of reality; the nature of consciousness and its possible survival after death; whether atheism, deism or theism provided the best explanation; and, if theism did, which version of theism. I built my belief system on the basis of my experiences, observations, studies, reflection and intuition.

Perhaps 20 years ago, I decided Christianity did, in fact, provide the best explanation. I accepted the reality of my born-again experience and adopted Christianity as the “working template” for my belief system.

Over the past 20 years, I’ve spent more time in Christian history, Christian theology (systematic and biblical) and Christian apologetics than most of you ever will. I’m talking about thousands of books and articles exploring Christianity from every possible perspective.

As I’ve matured to the age of 72+, I’ve come to peace with the simple reality that I’m never going to pretend to believe things I simply don’t believe and am constitutionally incapable of believing. I don’t think God wants this or would be pleased by it.

My Christianity is a very basic set of what I call “Christian essentials” that is far more generic than any of the standard creeds or statements of faith. It does, however, express what I genuinely believe about God and his plan for humans and what I think it means to be a Christian.

No, I don’t believe the Bible is inerrant or to be taken literally. It teaches broad spiritual truths, not history or science. I believe Jesus was talking far more about how we live than what we believe. I believe it’s unfortunate that the Gospel of John and Revelation have achieved such prominence in evangelical circles. I doubt very seriously that the Creator of the Universe is going to be sending billions of Buddhists, Hindus, et al., to hell.

I don’t “disbelieve” the doctrines many of you regard as essential. I simply don’t “believe” them either. If there is, in fact, something like hell, I trust we’ll see in the end how it’s worthy of the perfectly wise, perfectly just, perfectly holy, perfectly loving God in whom we trust. Ditto for the Trinity. I think it's a human way of trying to come to grips with an unfathomable mystery - but if it's lterally true, fine.

I concern myself only with my relationship with God. I focus on my communion with God and my day-to-day reliance on the Holy Spirit. I’ve seen too much evidence of the providence of God in my own life, and the transformation of the person I was 50 years ago, to think I’m on the wrong path.

The Bible? Eh. I once joked that I think all believers should read the Bible three times the first year, then put it away and forget about it. In my opinion, Biblicism and Bibliolatry are the most embarrassing. destructive aspects of evangelical Christianity. I’ll pick up the Bible and read a few pages for edification, but isn’t the cosmic Ouija board of my life.

You’re aghast? You don’t think I’m a Christian at all? Fine. It’s water off my back.

If you’re a Bible-thumping, Flat Earth-believing, Young Earth Creationist sort of Christian who thinks every book but the Bible is demon-inspired and any use of our intellects is the path to hell – hey, go for it! Hide away in permanent Vacation Bible School if you think it makes God happy. That’s one species of Christianity, too. There are lots and lots of species of Christianity.

My guess is, God is either laughing or weeping, or maybe both, at the spectacle “Christianity” has become. Much of it, I believe, is close to a mental illness and about as far from what Jesus was talking about as it could get. But it has become what it has become, and all I can control is the Church of What Runner Believes that exists in my own heart and mind.

If my approach bothers you, if it isn’t welcome on these forums – well, too bad. Been there, done that – and don’t ever want to go back.

Thanks for coming back. I'm refreshed by it.

On many and most of these "Christian" forums there isn't any room for views like you've just expressed. People who stray from the song sheet are 'asked out' or chased out of the choir loft. Singing the wrong tune-- or imagine! -the wrong words isn't tolerated. You not only have to be "Christian" you have to be the right kind of Christian, meaning the kind that agrees with what they've decided to be right.

Of course there is no such thing as a Christian Forum. I mean you can call it that, just like you can call a garage a Lamborghini garage, but if when you open the doors and see a Prius inside-- what is it that makes it a Lamborghini garage? Even more to the point- YOU can sleep in a garage every night and you will never become a car of any kind. Churches and Forums alike are just like that.

May God continue to bless you in your walk. Stay open.

 

[Mister E]

Could you give an example of the line you are not able to step over concerning belief in this "stuff" about Jesus ?
I ask the question assuming it can't be all "stuff" concerning Him ?
For instance there are many completely atheist academics who have no problem attesting with 100% historical certainty that there was a Jewish religious figure named Jesus Christ who was put to death by roman execution 2000 years ago.
They make no claim to having a historical certainty about anything more than that, yet they claim historical basis for His existence completely trustworthy.
Is it safe to say this is one of the "things" you believe ?

This is a perfect example of what I mean by the shark tank.

It's a poke and a prod and an attempt to see if you can get a little blood in the water. He mentions specifically the realization that he didn't believe most of "the stuff" they were teaching at a particular theological seminary and you generalize it and turn that stuff he mentions into stuff about Jesus - not mentioned by him at all.

He talks about what he calls "a born again experience" fifty years ago that changed the course of his life from that time to present, and you draw an imagined comparison between him and some unnamed "academic athiests." Why? At any point did he refer to himself or his beliefs as atheistic? Anything but.

You're simply looking for something to seize upon. Check yourself.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Thanks for coming back. I'm refreshed by it.

On many and most of these "Christian" forums there isn't any room for views like you've just expressed. People who stray from the song sheet are 'asked out' or chased out of the choir loft. Singing the wrong tune-- or imagine! -the wrong words isn't tolerated. You not only have to be "Christian" you have to be the right kind of Christian, meaning the kind that agrees with what they've decided to be right.

Of course there is no such thing as a Christian Forum. I mean you can call it that, just like you can call a garage a Lamborghini garage, but if when you open the doors and see a Prius inside-- what is it that makes it a Lamborghini garage? Even more to the point- YOU can sleep in a garage every night and you will never become a car of any kind. Churches and Forums alike are just like that.

May God continue to bless you in your walk. Stay open.

In the end we each stand it fall before our own master. We stand alone. No one is there to blame. Remembering this helps.

 

[Consecrated Life]

This is a perfect example of what I mean by the shark tank.

It's a poke and a prod and an attempt to see if you can get a little blood in the water. He mentions specifically the realization that he didn't believe most of "the stuff" they were teaching at a particular theological seminary and you generalize it and turn that stuff he mentions into stuff about Jesus - not mentioned by him at all.

Jesus is the only biblical association he makes in the 1st paragraph .

" ,,, my interest in Jesus was less than zero."

Immediately followed in 2nd paragraph by saying :

“I don’t really believe most of this stuff."

That being the case I don't see why Jesus wouldn't be included in the "stuff" ?

Discussing specific "stuff" provable in the epistemological sense seems perfectly reasonable to me .

Why all the fear ?

Don't you have any specific biblical stuff you believe to be historically established fact that you'd like to discuss out of your own interest ?

Do you have any current threads

 

[Mister E]

Jesus is the only biblical association he makes in the 1st paragraph .

" ,,, my interest in Jesus was less than zero."

Immediately followed in 2nd paragraph by saying :

“I don’t really believe most of this stuff."

That being the case I don't see why Jesus wouldn't be included in the "stuff" ?

So you double down. It hurts your credibility.

When you crop a quote, to make it appear he ONLY said what you are quoting-- it hurts your credibility.

You snipe and snip---

" ,,, my interest in Jesus was less than zero."

But what he really said was that he had "a born again experience on a day when his interest in Jesus was less than zero." In other words-- BEFORE he had that experience his interest in Jesus didn't exist. Trying to make his statement appear to support your claim is dishonest of you.

Likewise when you say-

Immediately followed in 2nd paragraph by saying :

“I don’t really believe most of this stuff."

-You are again stating something untrue. What you quote above does not immediately follow "my interest in Jesus was less than zero." It follows his entrance into Campus Crusade for Christ, the Baptist Student Union and the Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary-- I have to assume you are purposely conflating two separate statements, cropping and snipping to make it appear they are one and the same. Doubling down when you should be backing off.

I very quickly became a campus leader with Campus Crusade for Christ and the Baptist Student Union. I entered Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary upon the recommendation of a bevy of pastors. Campus Crusade tried to recruit me to join the staff.

That was "the stuff" he refers to-- and it took "a couple of years" of exposure within these groups for him to realize that he wasn't buying what they were dishing.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Jesus is the only biblical association he makes in the 1st paragraph .

" ,,, my interest in Jesus was less than zero."

Immediately followed in 2nd paragraph by saying :

“I don’t really believe most of this stuff."

That being the case I don't see why Jesus wouldn't be included in the "stuff" ?

You don't think it would be odd that Runner's mentioning of Christian based "stuff" is a reference completely void of all stuff concerning Jesus , as you assert it to be?
Jesus being the paramount personality of Christianity how could He not be included in the aforementioned "stuff"
Knowing as you do what specific "stuff" Runner is unable to discuss you must also have some notion what specific Christian "stuff" Runner is eager & available to discuss ?
Can you share ?

 

[Mister E]

You don't think it would be odd that Runner's mentioning of Christian based "stuff" is a reference completely void of all stuff concerning Jesus , as you assert it to be?
Jesus being the paramount personality of Christianity how could He not be included in the aforementioned "stuff"
Knowing as you do what specific "stuff" Runner is unable to discuss you must also have some notion what specific Christian "stuff" Runner is eager & available to discuss ?
Can you share ?

You are quoting yourself.... are you asking yourself?

 

[Consecrated Life]

What about you Mister E ?
What specific /specifics do you believe to be true in the epistemological sense about this Jesus ?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You don't think it would be odd that Runner's mentioning of Christian based "stuff" is a reference completely void of all stuff concerning Jesus , as you assert it to be?
Jesus being the paramount personality of Christianity how could He not be included in the aforementioned "stuff"
Knowing as you do what specific "stuff" Runner is unable to discuss you must also have some notion what specific Christian "stuff" Runner is eager & available to discuss ?
Can you share ?

Can you please stop attacking Runner. He opened his heart and you mince the words. I think he was more honest that a lot of people who tell themselves and others that they believe but act as though they don’t.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Can you please stop attacking Runner. He opened his heart and you mince the words. I think he was more honest that a lot of people who tell themselves and others that they believe but act as though they don’t.

A simple request for some specificity when the term "stuff" is vaguely applied in a most comprehensive manner would only constitute an "attack" if runner was my wife .
And since neither Runner or you for that matter are not my wife then the simple request for a little specificity stands as being completely reasonable and is not an " attack ".

 

[Dorothy Mae]

A simple request for some specificity when the term "stuff" is vaguely applied in a most comprehensive manner would only constitute an "attack" if runner was my wife .
And since neither Runner or you for that matter are not my wife then the simple request for a little specificity stands as being completely reasonable and is not an " attack ".

So if you, as the judge, are satisfied with his description of “stuff” then you’ll believe his response was valid? If not, you’ll determine his response to be unjustified?

 

[hawkman]

I’ll just start this thread right here in Unorthodox Land to spare the administrators the trouble of moving it.

I had a startling and completely unanticipated born-again experience in 1970 on a day when my interest in Jesus was less than zero. I very quickly became a campus leader with Campus Crusade for Christ and the Baptist Student Union. I entered Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary upon the recommendation of a bevy of pastors. Campus Crusade tried to recruit me to join the staff.

It took a couple of years before I said, “I don’t really believe most of this stuff. I’m pretending to believe things I simply don’t.”

While not rejecting or discarding my born-again experience, I embarked on a massive quest to discover what I really did and could believe.

That quest concerned itself with questions like the nature of reality; the nature of consciousness and its possible survival after death; whether atheism, deism or theism provided the best explanation; and, if theism did, which version of theism. I built my belief system on the basis of my experiences, observations, studies, reflection and intuition.

Perhaps 20 years ago, I decided Christianity did, in fact, provide the best explanation. I accepted the reality of my born-again experience and adopted Christianity as the “working template” for my belief system.

Over the past 20 years, I’ve spent more time in Christian history, Christian theology (systematic and biblical) and Christian apologetics than most of you ever will. I’m talking about thousands of books and articles exploring Christianity from every possible perspective.

As I’ve matured to the age of 72+, I’ve come to peace with the simple reality that I’m never going to pretend to believe things I simply don’t believe and am constitutionally incapable of believing. I don’t think God wants this or would be pleased by it.

My Christianity is a very basic set of what I call “Christian essentials” that is far more generic than any of the standard creeds or statements of faith. It does, however, express what I genuinely believe about God and his plan for humans and what I think it means to be a Christian.

No, I don’t believe the Bible is inerrant or to be taken literally. It teaches broad spiritual truths, not history or science. I believe Jesus was talking far more about how we live than what we believe. I believe it’s unfortunate that the Gospel of John and Revelation have achieved such prominence in evangelical circles. I doubt very seriously that the Creator of the Universe is going to be sending billions of Buddhists, Hindus, et al., to hell.

I don’t “disbelieve” the doctrines many of you regard as essential. I simply don’t “believe” them either. If there is, in fact, something like hell, I trust we’ll see in the end how it’s worthy of the perfectly wise, perfectly just, perfectly holy, perfectly loving God in whom we trust. Ditto for the Trinity. I think it's a human way of trying to come to grips with an unfathomable mystery - but if it's lterally true, fine.

I concern myself only with my relationship with God. I focus on my communion with God and my day-to-day reliance on the Holy Spirit. I’ve seen too much evidence of the providence of God in my own life, and the transformation of the person I was 50 years ago, to think I’m on the wrong path.

The Bible? Eh. I once joked that I think all believers should read the Bible three times the first year, then put it away and forget about it. In my opinion, Biblicism and Bibliolatry are the most embarrassing. destructive aspects of evangelical Christianity. I’ll pick up the Bible and read a few pages for edification, but isn’t the cosmic Ouija board of my life.

You’re aghast? You don’t think I’m a Christian at all? Fine. It’s water off my back.

If you’re a Bible-thumping, Flat Earth-believing, Young Earth Creationist sort of Christian who thinks every book but the Bible is demon-inspired and any use of our intellects is the path to hell – hey, go for it! Hide away in permanent Vacation Bible School if you think it makes God happy. That’s one species of Christianity, too. There are lots and lots of species of Christianity.

My guess is, God is either laughing or weeping, or maybe both, at the spectacle “Christianity” has become. Much of it, I believe, is close to a mental illness and about as far from what Jesus was talking about as it could get. But it has become what it has become, and all I can control is the Church of What Runner Believes that exists in my own heart and mind.

If my approach bothers you, if it isn’t welcome on these forums – well, too bad. Been there, done that – and don’t ever want to go back.

There is a lot to unwind in your post, if you don't mind, I would like to ask a few questions about your beginnings of being born-again .

When you talk about your born-again experience being unanticipated and startling are you saying it was like an accident you becoming a Christian ? If you would elaborate, I have not heard it described the way you did .

I am going to take a guess here and say the "stuff" you speak of are the supernatural aspects of God and maybe the supernatural aspects of being a Christian . Maybe I am wrong . Elaborate if you will .

 

[Runner]

Golly, I actually got some responses, some very worthy of a reply.

My laptop completely crashed. The only way to restore it was a complete reset that deleted absolutely all personal files, documents, everything. That occupied all day.

I will try to respond to some of the above comments tomorrow.

 

[Runner]

Have your beliefs enabled you to live without sinning?
Wouldn't that be the evidence of your having been reborn?

Is living without sinning your evidence of having been reborn? If so, you're unique in the history of Christianity. I probably sin every hour or so, but I confess and keep on truckin'. A pretty thorough transformation of one's life does not require "living without sinning."