Before marriage- where do you folks draw the line?

[Zeth4500]

so, im planning to not have sex before marriage, it would surely be the most pure. but somewhere deep inside of me i feel like being engaged should give just a bit more freedom. im not worried that of failing temptation before marriage.
i think kissing is plenty fine, and maybe a bit more than that.
AFAIK theres varying definitions of what would be considered to be sex and thats really the term the bible revolves around, some really strict couples wont even hold hands or sleep together prior marriage
lets hear some takes on this.

 

[dwb001]

so, im planning to not have sex before marriage, it would surely be the most pure. but somewhere deep inside of me i feel like being engaged should give just a bit more freedom. im not worried that of failing temptation before marriage.
i think kissing is plenty fine, and maybe a bit more than that.
AFAIK theres varying definitions of what would be considered to be sex and thats really the term the bible revolves around, some really strict couples wont even hold hands or sleep together prior marriage
lets hear some takes on this.

Is she/he your spouse yet?
If not... then hands off.
What if after engagement you break it off?
You have just done whatever you did with someone else's spouse.

 

[Hidden In Him]

so, im planning to not have sex before marriage, it would surely be the most pure. but somewhere deep inside of me i feel like being engaged should give just a bit more freedom. im not worried that of failing temptation before marriage.
i think kissing is plenty fine, and maybe a bit more than that.
AFAIK theres varying definitions of what would be considered to be sex and thats really the term the bible revolves around, some really strict couples wont even hold hands or sleep together prior marriage
lets hear some takes on this.

If I were being honest, all lines start getting blown right off the street and evaporating into thin air once I'm romantically involved with a woman. My emotions are too overpowering.

Maybe that makes me unqualified to answer this particular question properly. I would just say try to keep it non-contact for as long as possible, and when contact does finally happen in a moment of passion, it would be time to step back and say "Ok, buddy. You gotta figure out what in the heck you are doing here, cuz you're about to go off the cliff, and she's apparently coming with you."

 

[Zeth4500]

and when contact does finally happen in a moment of passion,

see, im on a very extreme level of selfcontrol and i think teasing the fire could help her to gain better control
i found some writings from an christian article
"Waiting to share the gift of sex should be seen not as a passive delay of passion but as an active training in faithfulness. They should see in this time of testing a discovery of mutual respect, an apprenticeship in fidelity"

Is she/he your spouse yet?

officially? no. in the heart and soul? plausible

as i see it the intention is also important, is it done to put yourself in a situation where you can later on just say you lost control and ask for forgiveness? i believe proving your purity comes from withstanding temptation- which intimacy will ensue, having solid boundaries and enforcing them strictly. enforcing the boundaries in the .. heat of the moment .. is how most people fail, i have always been tempted by demons in my dreams and rejected them- im more so worried for her if the perfect and ideal should present himself to her through the will of the devil

i might also add, neither of us are pure so theres no complete purity to be lost by intimacy

Hebrews 3:14
“Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.”
immoral definition: 1. morally wrong, or outside society's standards of acceptable, honest, and moral behaviour:
and i believe this here argues my point with intention as honesty
is it not ok for a firefighters to start a small controlled fire, to then put out the fire to exercise themselves?

 

[dwb001]

see, im on a very extreme level of selfcontrol and i think teasing the fire could help her to gain better control
i found some writings from an christian article
"Waiting to share the gift of sex should be seen not as a passive delay of passion but as an active training in faithfulness. They should see in this time of testing a discovery of mutual respect, an apprenticeship in fidelity"

officially? no. in the heart and soul? plausible

So no. Still not married.
Still not your wife to enjoy.

as i see it the intention is also important, is it done to put yourself in a situation where you can later on just say you lost control and ask for forgiveness? i believe proving your purity comes from withstanding temptation- which intimacy will ensue, having solid boundaries and enforcing them strictly. enforcing the boundaries in the .. heat of the moment .. is how most people fail, i have always been tempted by demons in my dreams and rejected them- im more so worried for her if the perfect and ideal should present himself to her through the will of the devil

i might also add, neither of us are pure so theres no complete purity to be lost by intimacy

Hebrews 3:14
“Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.”
immoral definition: 1. morally wrong, or outside society's standards of acceptable, honest, and moral behaviour:
and i believe this here argues my point with intention as honesty
is it not ok for a firefighters to start a small controlled fire, to then put out the fire to exercise themselves?

 

[hawkman]

is it not ok for a firefighters to start a small controlled fire, to then put out the fire to exercise themselves?

Know this, what can start as controlled can still get out of control . Been there done that .

 

[Riven]

Google Gene Simmons. His story is fascinating.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

As a woman married many years now, it needs to be understood that the strength to refuse sexual temptation to sin needs to be cultivated all of one's life. There will be times when a married couple cannot engage in sex due to circumstances (like delivery or other medical issues.) There might be times when the temptation to commit adultery will be also presented, especially now in a culture that does not hold fidelity at all important. If we do not cultivate the strength to say "no, I am not doing that and sin against God" as Joseph did, we will deeply regret that weakness. It is ALWAYS possible, always. It is best to recognize that and cultivate strength to refuse that temptation that can actually ruin your life potentially for a small momentary pleasure.

 

[Zeth4500]

i have discussed it upstairs and taken a lot of consideration and done a lot of reading to arrive at my conclusion

i wont be using "loopholes", we have designated a clear limit
what was very important in my decision was to ask... how did things go on in biblical times? and how are they today?
nowadays from they meet to they marry it may take as long as 5 years- and sometimes even longer
now, biblical times. about 1-2 weeks

and theres 52 weeks in a year, lets just say multiply that by 3 to be fair, in modern time a christian would then be expected to withstand about 150 times longer, even in a society saturated with lust
on top of that, there was no such thing as engagement back then, engagement serves as the proof of comittment- and already at comittment, albeit not having both of you sealed up with gods acceptance i would say it could be argued that its equal to marriage

there will be no penetration of any sort until marriage, despite i could argue for it- god acknowledged this and didnt seem to care much for anything besides this, for now.

i also read perspectives that explains the sex part is all about attachment as sex brings attachment, and because of that sex prior marriage (marriage which was not in biblical times done twice) would equal attachment, and more than one attachment would ruin the one and only attachment a couple should acquire- however, we are already very deeply attached without even each others touch

statistics also suggest couples who engage in sex prior marriage regret it at a .. 40-60% rate, since neither of us are virgins it lessens this blow a bit, but everything taken into consideration ive settled on the boundary to be strictly maintained.

 

[Tenchi]

so, im planning to not have sex before marriage, it would surely be the most pure. but somewhere deep inside of me i feel like being engaged should give just a bit more freedom. im not worried that of failing temptation before marriage.
i think kissing is plenty fine, and maybe a bit more than that.
AFAIK theres varying definitions of what would be considered to be sex and thats really the term the bible revolves around, some really strict couples wont even hold hands or sleep together prior marriage
lets hear some takes on this.

1 Corinthians 10:31
31 Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

Sex is God's idea; He made us all sexual beings. But He also - and far more importantly - made us in His image, to serve His purposes, so that He is glorified. As the apostle Paul wrote in the quotation above, there is nothing - not even romance and sex - that is exempt from this fundamental purpose for which we exist. The question, then, that a born-again believer ought to be asking concerning romance and sexuality isn't, "How far is too far?" but "How can I best glorify God in this area of my life?" There aren't "really strict" and "really loose" believers when it comes to sexuality before marriage, only those who love God such that, in the area of romance and sex, they act so that He is glorified, and those who don't. If the purpose of sexual restraint prior to marriage isn't to express love for God and to glorify Him, not only is that restraint spiritually useless (1 Corinthians 13:1-3; Matthew 22:36-38), but it will be easily overcome by the passion of romance and sex.

What glorifies and honors God more, what better demonstrates one's love for Him: drawing near to sexual temptation and sin unnecessarily, or "fleeing youthful lusts" as God's word commands (2 Timothy 2:22)? Is God better glorified by those who "make no provision for the flesh to fulfill its lusts" (Romans 13:12-14) or by those who constantly walk along the edge of "going too far"?

Romans 13:12-14 (NASB)
12 The night is almost gone, and the day is near. Therefore let us lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.
13 Let us behave properly as in the day, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and sensuality, not in strife and jealousy.
14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts.

 

[D-D-W]

what was very important in my decision was to ask... how did things go on in biblical times? and how are they today?
nowadays from they meet to they marry it may take as long as 5 years- and sometimes even longer
now, biblical times. about 1-2 weeks

It took a long time back in NT times as well. So your 1-2 week time frame is a total fabrication. Since we have very little documentation before the 1st century bc, I will stick with first century Judea. Things varied a lot from this in the pagan cultures like Rome or Greece.

The normal age of marriages to be arranged was about 7 to 8. Sometime around when the guy would reach age 12 or 13, the 2 families would sit down and negotiate a marriage contract called a Ketuba. It would cover all kinds of situations and what each was supposed to do in each circumstance. It even included the frequency of sex the girl could expect. ** When the ketuba was finished, the couple was legally married and it took an official divorce decree to dissolve the agreement. "not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly." There are thousands of copies from the first centuries still in existence.

Once it was signed, the boy would start to build a home; usually as a new wing off of his father's house. "in my house are many dwelling places ..." When construction was finished, which typically took about a year, the boy's father would be the building inspector and with his approval would send the boy to get his bride. No one, not even the boy, knew when Dad was going to do that. “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone." He would then go, on horseback (pref white) to get his bride and take her to their new home and consummate the marriage.

As you can see, our Lord often would refer to this custom as He taught about the Kingdom and His return. His phrases would have been immediately recognized in that culture. Today, not so much. But the entire time line from arrangement to consummation was 5-6 years. Much of that was pre-puberty so the sex drive was not the issue it is today.

** Sex was/is considered a wife's RIGHT and a husband's obligation. There are many court records of wives bringing suit against their husbands for not providing enough sex for them.