Bible Study Behemoth and Leviathan

[HeIsRisen2018]

I just finished reading about them, but (at least in my Bible) it doesn't really tell me all that much information about them except that Leviathan was a sea monster, but that sounds like something out of the Little Mermaid because sea monsters are mythical creatures aren't they? So I'm guessing that it's not speaking literally. Anybody else have a clue as to just exactly who or what they were?

 

[stovebolts]

I just finished reading about them, but (at least in my Bible) it doesn't really tell me all that much information about them except that Leviathan was a sea monster, but that sounds like something out of the Little Mermaid because sea monsters are mythical creatures aren't they? So I'm guessing that it's not speaking literally. Anybody else have a clue as to just exactly who or what they were?

I'm not as well educated on the roots of the Boheimeth as I am the Lavaithan. This is actually a trustworthy wiki. Not all wiki's are.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan

I have the original documents with Yammu and Loki which were well known within the Canaanite culture which Israel was most familiar. In Genesis 1, Lavaithan is nuanced when the spirit of God is hovering over the water. It is also nuanced when the deep waters are mentioned in the scriptures, including many psalms, as well as in Revelation where the sea gives up her dead. In short, it's a kind of a place of hell.

 

[WIP]

I searched "Leviathan" in the ESV and I believe it is or was a real creature. It seems that in some references it is used as a metaphor for evil as well.

The Behemoth is described in Job 40 and again I believe this is or was a real creature but unlike the Leviathan it seems to be a land dwelling plant eating creature that lived near wetlands. Could be almost anything with great size. Perhaps a crocodile, hippopotamus, elephant, or other I guess.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

I'm not as well educated on the roots of the Boheimeth as I am the Lavaithan. This is actually a trustworthy wiki. Not all wiki's are.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan

I have the original documents with Yammu and Loki which were well known within the Canaanite culture which Israel was most familiar. In Genesis 1, Lavaithan is nuanced when the spirit of God is hovering over the water. It is also nuanced when the deep waters are mentioned in the scriptures, including many psalms, as well as in Revelation where the sea gives up her dead. In short, it's a kind of a place of hell.

I'm sorry, but do you mind rewording that? That was a bit too complicated for me to understand what you were trying to say.

 

[Chopper]

Here is what theologian John Gill has to say about the Lavaithan....
Job 41:1
Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook?.... That is, draw it out of the sea or river as anglers draw out smaller fishes with a line or hook? the question suggests it cannot be done; whether by the "leviathan" is meant the whale, which was the most generally received notion; or the crocodile, as Bochart, who has been followed by many; or the "orca", a large fish of the whale kind with many teeth, as Hasaeus, it is not easy to say "Leviathan" is a compound word of than the first syllable of "thanni", rendered either a whale, or a dragon, or a serpent, and of "levi", which signifies conjunction, from the close joining of its scales, Job_41:15; the patriarch Levi had his name from the same word; see Gen_29:34; and the name bids fairest for the crocodile, and which is called "thannin", Eze_29:3. Could the crocodile be established as the "leviathan", and the behemoth as the river horse, the transition from the one to the other would appear very easy; since, as Pliny says (a), there is a sort of a kindred between them, being of the same river, the river Nile, and so may be thought to be better known to Job than the whale; though it is not to be concealed what Pliny says (b), that whales have been seen in the Arabian seas; he speaks of one that came into the river of Arabia, six hundred feet long, and three hundred and sixty broad. There are some things in the description of this creature that seem to agree best with the crocodile, and others that suit better with the whale, and some with neither;

or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down? into the river or sea, as anglers do, with lead to it to make it sink below the surface of the water, and a quill or cork that it may not sink too deep; but this creature is not to be taken in this manner; and which may be objected to the crocodile being meant, since that has no tongue (c), or at least so small that it is not seen, and cleaves close to its lower jaw, which never moves; and is taken with hooks and cords, as Herodotus (d), Diodorus Siculus (e), and Leo Africanus (f), testify; but not so the whale.

 

[Razeontherock]

No Bible version tells us much about them.
If behemoth was a land dweller as WIP suggests, maybe God was telling Job about brontosauruses? Lol, that was a species that didn't exist, but lots of critters like that did.

Take the whole section of the book in context, and you've got some grand concepts!

They don't give you practical instruction about living the Christian life though; that's in the New Testament.

 

[WIP]

No Bible version tells us much about them.
If behemoth was a land dweller as WIP suggests, maybe God was telling Job about brontosauruses? Lol, that was a species that didn't exist, but lots of critters like that did.

Not trying to take this off topic but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Not having seen one does not mean they never existed. I've never seen or met General Eisenhower but I believe he existed. Actually, I have never seen or met President Trump or you but I believe you both exist.

 

[Razeontherock]

Not trying to take this off topic but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Not having seen one does not mean they never existed. I've never seen or met General Eisenhower but I believe he existed. Actually, I have never seen or met President Trump or you but I believe you both exist.

You missed my point. Brontosaurus is a species you and I were taught existed. That has since been disproven.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

You missed my point. Brontosaurus is a species you and I were taught existed. That has since been disproven.

Umm,.. I'm sorry but by who? Scientists have proven that they were a real species of dinosaurs. Not like that has anything at all to do with the topic at hand though.

 

[WIP]

You missed my point. Brontosaurus is a species you and I were taught existed. That has since been disproven.

According to this, there's new evidence to the contrary again. Truth is, something left skeletons behind but we could be putting them together wrong. And the mystery continues.....

 

[stovebolts]

I searched "Leviathan" in the ESV and I believe it is or was a real creature. It seems that in some references it is used as a metaphor for evil as well.

The Behemoth is described in Job 40 and again I believe this is or was a real creature but unlike the Leviathan it seems to be a land dwelling plant eating creature that lived near wetlands. Could be almost anything with great size. Perhaps a crocodile, hippopotamus, elephant, or other I guess.

This came out of my ANE book. Lavatian comes from an Ugaritic (cananite) myth from a poem between Baal and Anath.
Lavathain is an offshoot of Yamm, god of the sea and Yamm and Baal are at war in all their pomp, etc etc.
See foot note 10.

 

[stovebolts]

Part 2.

 

[Razeontherock]

Umm,.. I'm sorry but by who? Scientists have proven that they were a real species of dinosaurs. Not like that has anything at all to do with the topic at hand though.

No, Brontosaurus never existed. It was a mistake. And taking WIP's last post into account, maybe they were mistaken again.

The fact is, most fossil "skeletons" have been more artist's renderings than anything actually discovered. They have a way of explaining all this, none of which is science. Honest diagrams show which parts were actually found, vs which parts were just made up. It's astonishing what they get away with teaching in school as though it were fact.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

No, Brontosaurus never existed. It was a mistake.

Really?? I'm pretty sure that I've seen their bones in museums before.

 

[Razeontherock]

Look above at my edit. The "bones" you saw, some of them are actual fossils.
The skeleton you saw was not found like that, AT ALL. Most of those "bones" were fabricated; i.e., man-made. It is utterly dishonest to present this without disclosing what was actually found vs what was just made up because somebody would like it to be that way.

Anyway, this is all VERY relevant to the thread because something or other that was really big lived a long time ago. Maybe God was telling Job about this? Or maybe He was referring to a crocodile, which ancients worshipped as a god? These are the two main trains of thought, but a crocodile doesn't make the earth shake. Something the size of a Brontosaurus might, so I lean towards that understanding of the passage. It goes right along with God telling Job about things that happened before Genesis 1:1

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Look above at my edit. The "bones" you saw, some of them are actual fossils.
The skeleton you saw was not found like that, AT ALL. Most of those "bones" were fabricated; i.e., man-made. It is utterly dishonest to present this without disclosing what was actually found vs what was just made up because somebody would like it to be that way.

Anyway, this is all VERY relevant to the thread because something or other that was really big lived a long time ago. Maybe God was telling Job about this? Or maybe He was referring to a crocodile, which ancients worshipped as a god? These are the two main trains of thought, but a crocodile doesn't make the earth shake. Something the size of a Brontosaurus might, so I lean towards that understanding of the passage. It goes right along with God telling Job about things that happened before Genesis 1:1

Don't get me wrong, I know that sometimes in museums their dinosaur skeletons are fabricated, but how do you know that they were? I just want to know where you are getting your sources from, because you can't believe everything that you read on the Internet you know.

 

[Chopper]

I would suggest, to anyone interested in this thread, go to the "Institute of Creation Research" The founder of ICR is Henry Morris. His famous book, "The Genesis Flood" should be read by all who have questions about dinosaurs and the like.

I met Dr. Morris in the late 70s and ICR grew to what they are now. You can get their news letter and free magazine at www.ICR.org well worth your time.

 

[Razeontherock]

Don't get me wrong, I know that sometimes in museums their dinosaur skeletons are fabricated, but how do you know that they were? I just want to know where you are getting your sources from, because you can't believe everything that you read on the Internet you know.

Good science tells you what is real, vs what is conjecture. The typical way of doing this is by shading the diagram differently, to indicate whether a fossilized bone was actually found, or whether it's been speculated. That detail is usually in fine print when it's included.

I first saw the Museum of Natural History in NYC around 1972, maybe a little before, and I guarantee you no such information was provided.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Behemoth

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Looks scary and cool at the same time, I wouldn't want to mess with that thing though.