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Truthfrees

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And Scripture never mentions any subsequent maternities of Mary so I can ask how you reached that conclusion.

Mary’s perpetual virginity has always been part of the regula fidei. It was even held by the progenitors of Protestantism. The idea of Mary having multiple materninites has become nearly a dogma in modern Evangelical Protestantism.
so you are saying that being married to joseph all those years she never had sex with her husband?
Matthew 1:25
 

Walpole

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quoting laws of what is allowed and what is not allowed is torah

check it out - everything paul said not to do God already said not to do in torah

speaking of the new covenant is also torah - torah means the ways of God - paul was for sure teaching the ways of God that every jew already knew form their lifetime of teaching - that is why the apostles to the jews did not write these sqme things to the jews - only the gentiles were a stranger to the covenants - - and came from a background paul called without God and without hope

2 Thes 2:13-15 ---> " But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter."

Support your assertion and show me this in the Torah.
 

Walpole

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it was never taught by Jesus or by God or by the apostles - it is strictly outside scripture and outside God
"...at many times and in many ways..." - Hebrews 1:1

The Word of God is not confined to the Scriptures alone.
 

Truthfrees

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St. Paul says the word of God is not confined to the Torah. The epistle to the Hebrews opens with this very teaching. ("many ways and by many means")
he didn't - he said he was teaching God's word to those who did not know God's word -
 

Walpole

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so you are saying that being married to joseph all those years she never had sex with her husband?
That is correct. Joseph and Mary's marriage was not ordinary in that its teleological end was not procreation, but rather to point to the Kingdom of God. Since they were in the presence of the Most High as the parents of the Incarnate Son of God, their life of continence, like that of their Son's, points to the heavenly Kingdom, as opposed to an earthly and carnal one.

Ezekiel 44:1-2 ---> "Then he brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary, which faces east. And it was shut. And the Lord said to me, 'This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it, for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it. Therefore it shall remain shut.'"

The prophet is given a vision of the holiness of the East gate of the Temple. We know our Blessed Lord said that His body is the true temple. (cf. John 2:19-21) Hence if Christ is the true temple prophesied by Ezekiel, then the gate by which He entered into this temple is Mary. She is hence the gate through which God came in the flesh.

The prophet says the East gate (a significant detail) is shut because the Lord has entered by it. For this reason it shall remain shut.
Matthew 1:25
St. Matthew's nativity account is only concerned with the events up until the nativity. His narrative is not focused on Joseph or Mary's conjugal life after the nativity. If he was, he would have written "until after" if he wanted to avoid any ambiguity. St. Matthew's nativity narrative is about identifying the Messiah, not about Joseph's sex life.
 
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Walpole

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he didn't - he said he was teaching God's word to those who did not know God's word -
And God's word he was teaching was not confined to that which was written...

1 Thessalonians 2:23 ---> And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 ---> So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

Hebrews 13:7 ---> Remember your leaders, those who spoke the word of God to you...
 

jaybo

 
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The prophet is given a vision of the holiness of the East gate of the Temple. We know our Blessed Lord said that His body is the true temple. (cf. John 2:19-21) Hence if Christ is the true temple prophesied by Ezekiel, then the gate by which He entered into this temple is Mary. She is hence the gate through which God came in the flesh.
A camel has four legs and a horse has four legs. Therefore, a camel is a horse. QED

Your explanation of "the gate by which He entered into this temple is Mary" has no basis in Scripture. It makes as much sense as the above statement.
 

Walpole

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A camel has four legs and a horse has four legs. Therefore, a camel is a horse. QED

Your explanation of "the gate by which He entered into this temple is Mary" has no basis in Scripture. It makes as much sense as the above statement.
I'll take, "What is Biblical typology?" for $100 please.
 

PeterJens

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I don't think so. I think most heresies have a lack of understanding of the Incarnation at their root.

The Church's Marian dogmas actual protect and safeguard orthodox Trinitarian theology and Christology.

No, I do not. I think she is given her rightful honor in light of her role in the economy of salvation.

I think this is common among converts. The main reason being the multitude of lies perpetuated by Protestants such as Catholics worship Mary, Catholics believe Mary is a god, etc. You can see that in real time here as another poster in this very thread even insinuated Catholics believe she is part of the Godhead.

Once the lies are repudiated, many converts come to love her and even have a devotion to her, like Scott Hahn does today.
I find in all faith a problem with romanticisation of life. So God is loving, sweet and kind, never harsh or difficult. Mary is the best mum of all, and totally devoted to the Father, above any commitment to marriage and bearing children. I mean that is too human a thing, that God could be connected with sex.

Is God without favouritism or bias, righteous yet pure, loving yet condemning of sin and evil?
So a priest is exalted through ceremony to be Holy, able to bring about the blood and body of Jesus is wafer and wine.
The ceremony is Holy in its own right, even though the celebrant might be apostate or unbelieving, the church building a place where God dwelt, even if paid for and bought to earn salvation for the reprobate wealthy ruler.

I saw a series on Netflix about the cocaine drug barons who gave to missionaries to balance out their sin and debauched lifestyle. We will stand before the Father to give account, but I wonder what that will be? Of how love transformed and transcended our lives, or of religion used to cover over the life of selfishness and self indulgence.

To be a good cover you need it to be exceptional, rather than the shinning light of a life honouring the King and lived humbly before Him in all aspects.

God bless you
 

Walpole

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I find in all faith a problem with romanticisation of life. So God is loving, sweet and kind, never harsh or difficult. Mary is the best mum of all, and totally devoted to the Father, above any commitment to marriage and bearing children. I mean that is too human a thing, that God could be connected with sex.

Is God without favouritism or bias, righteous yet pure, loving yet condemning of sin and evil?
So a priest is exalted through ceremony to be Holy, able to bring about the blood and body of Jesus is wafer and wine.
The ceremony is Holy in its own right, even though the celebrant might be apostate or unbelieving, the church building a place where God dwelt, even if paid for and bought to earn salvation for the reprobate wealthy ruler.

I saw a series on Netflix about the cocaine drug barons who gave to missionaries to balance out their sin and debauched lifestyle. We will stand before the Father to give account, but I wonder what that will be? Of how love transformed and transcended our lives, or of religion used to cover over the life of selfishness and self indulgence.

To be a good cover you need it to be exceptional, rather than the shinning light of a life honouring the King and lived humbly before Him in all aspects.

God bless you
Well said.

Your post brings to mind an interesting and often overlooked detail in the last judgement scene Jesus describes in the 25th chapter of St. Matthew's Gospel. Upon hearing the pronouncement of their judgement, both the sheep and the goats are completely surprised by the verdict.
 

Truthfrees

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for me the bottom clear line is mary was not venerated by the apostles or by Jesus so anyone after the apostles venerating her would be doing something not condoned by God's word

anything outside God's written word is unauthorized
 
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Truthfrees

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when someone mentions mary and her sons were looking for Jesus he made a statement to say his real mother and brothers and sisters are those who hear and do God's word - iow when Jesus was given the chance to venerate mary he lifted other up higher than mary and his brothers - Luke 8:20-21
 
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Truthfrees

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when mary tried to correct 12 year old Jesus he corrected her instead - not an example of veneration imo - Luke 2:48-49
 

Truthfrees

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when mary asked Jesus for something that was not correct he corrected her again - John 2:3-4 - mary seems to be corrected by Jesus a lot
 
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Blade

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"And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!"

A truth yet not. Well he was had to be a man. He was born a man. Mary was like any other woman in that day and age. She was not sinless blah blah blah. So some are wrong about Mary but right about Jesus. Mary was the mother of Jesus...not the mother of GOD. Jesus has always been...everything that is He made. He had to be fully man to take our place and sinless. To be GOD well.. would not have worked. To miss this...oh
 

Walpole

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"And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!"

A truth yet not. Well he was had to be a man. He was born a man. Mary was like any other woman in that day and age. She was not sinless blah blah blah. So some are wrong about Mary but right about Jesus. Mary was the mother of Jesus...not the mother of GOD. Jesus has always been...everything that is He made. He had to be fully man to take our place and sinless. To be GOD well.. would not have worked. To miss this...oh
Jesus is fully God and fully man.

"My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28)

This is Christianity 101.
 

rstrats

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re: "Biblical Mary:"


One scriptural aspect of Mary was the Messiah's attitude toward her. As has been touched on, as far as scripture is concerned, there are only 3 times mentioned where the Messiah spoke to her. And He seemed to be a bit perturbed with her 2 of those times. The 3rd time He merely told her to look at her son.

Also, He only spoke 2 times with regard to what someone said about her and again His response couldn't be considered very flattering.

I think it is also interesting that Mary is not mentioned by any of the writers in the New Testament epistles including the one to the church at Rome and the two epistles by Peter.
 
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