Christian Forums

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • We stand with Ukraine. Please consider supporting Ukraine through a qualified organization.
  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

Biblical Mary!

Bible

Member
From
Dallas
Gender
Male
Messages
516
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Just because she was a virgin and from the lineage of David how could we ever know if she ever commited any sin for after all we are all born with a nature to sin and we all have fallen short.

This is only speculation on your part because she is called pure, which means she never knew a man until after Jesus was born.
Gen 3:15 enmity total war none of his wicked works are found in her
No where does Satan accuse our Lord of having a sinner for a mother, the accuser has no accusation
Lk 1:28 full of grace
The Lord is with her
She is blessed
Mary has to be holy and consecrated to be the dwelling place of God
Ark of the new covenant incorruptible wood immaculate purity
Covered with pure gold type of her immaculate purity and charity
Rev 12:1 clothed with the sun again immaculate purity

mother of God Lk 1:43
Mother of our salvation Lk 2:30
 

for_his_glory

Fight the good fight of faith
Staff member
Administrator
From
South Carolina
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
Messages
23,268
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Gen 3:15 enmity total war none of his wicked works are found in her
No where does Satan accuse our Lord of having a sinner for a mother, the accuser has no accusation
Lk 1:28 full of grace
The Lord is with her
She is blessed
Mary has to be holy and consecrated to be the dwelling place of God
Ark of the new covenant incorruptible wood immaculate purity
Covered with pure gold type of her immaculate purity and charity
Rev 12:1 clothed with the sun again immaculate purity

mother of God Lk 1:43
Mother of our salvation Lk 2:30
You can not take just one verse and manipulate it to make it say what you want.

Genesis 3:15 in the full context of the scriptures before it is speaking about the first prophecy of the death an resurrection of Christ. Adam and Eve heard god's curse on the snake and the plan through Christ Jesus to restore what had been lost by the betrayal and rebellion against the creator.

Luke 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

No where in that verse does it say she was full of grace, but only highly favored as in vs. 38 Mary calls herself the handmade of the Lord. Mary was only blessed among woman because she had favor in the Lord being a virgin and from the lineage of David in whom the Christ Child was to be born through.

Nowhere in scripture does it say Mary is the mother of God or that she sits as a Queen in the throne room of God in heaven. These are all man made doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church that bow down and worship a statue made by hands not even knowing what Mary looked like. It's a piece of plastic or plaster that has no significant to God other than it's an abomination to Him as others bow down and worship and pray to this statue/idol.

Rev 12 has nothing to do with Mary. The woman is symbolic of Israel and the congregation of Gods people as she wears a crown of twelve stars which represents the twelve tribes of Israel that have repented of their arrogance as they felt they deserved Gods favor, but yet kept killing the prophets God sent to them, including the very Messiah they were waiting for. This is when the times of the Gentiles began as God went to them to take Himself a people that were humbled enough to receive salvation as God had mercy on them, Matthew 23:37-39; Acts 15:14; Romans 11:25-27.


Where does it say Mother of our salvation in these below verses?

Luke 2:25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
Luk 2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
Luke 2:27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
Luke 2:28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
Luke 2:29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
Luke 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
Luke 2:31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
Luke 2:32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
Luke 2:33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.
 

Bible

Member
From
Dallas
Gender
Male
Messages
516
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
You can not take just one verse and manipulate it to make it say what you want.

Genesis 3:15 in the full context of the scriptures before it is speaking about the first prophecy of the death an resurrection of Christ. Adam and Eve heard god's curse on the snake and the plan through Christ Jesus to restore what had been lost by the betrayal and rebellion against the creator.


Luke 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

No where in that verse does it say she was full of grace, but only highly favored as in vs. 38 Mary calls herself the handmade of the Lord. Mary was only blessed among woman because she had favor in the Lord being a virgin and from the lineage of David in whom the Christ Child was to be born through.

Nowhere in scripture does it say Mary is the mother of God or that she sits as a Queen in the throne room of God in heaven. These are all man made doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church that bow down and worship a statue made by hands not even knowing what Mary looked like. It's a piece of plastic or plaster that has no significant to God other than it's an abomination to Him as others bow down and worship and pray to this statue/idol.

Rev 12 has nothing to do with Mary. The woman is symbolic of Israel and the congregation of Gods people as she wears a crown of twelve stars which represents the twelve tribes of Israel that have repented of their arrogance as they felt they deserved Gods favor, but yet kept killing the prophets God sent to them, including the very Messiah they were waiting for. This is when the times of the Gentiles began as God went to them to take Himself a people that were humbled enough to receive salvation as God had mercy on them, Matthew 23:37-39; Acts 15:14; Romans 11:25-27.


Where does it say Mother of our salvation in these below verses?

Luke 2:25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
Luk 2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
Luke 2:27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
Luke 2:28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
Luke 2:29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
Luke 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
Luke 2:31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
Luke 2:32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
Luke 2:33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.
All scripture is inspired even one word is still the Word of God

Mary crushes his proud head gen 3:15
Enmity is total war

Lk 1:28 full of grace maybe not in the kjv but other Protestant versions also have full of grace

Lord and God are same Lk 1:43

no idols no worship adoration of Mary only God

rev 12 the child is Jesus Mary is his mother
The adversary of Satan same as gen 3/15 israel was in union with Satan killing Christ

Lk 2:30 he sees his salvation
Jesus in his very person is our salvation
Salvation is not a something but somebody
Matt 16:17 who do they say I am not what do I teach
He is our salvation Mary is his mother
Mother of our salvation
Mother of our savior
Mother of the word
Mother of God

cos Jesus is God Savior salvation and the word
 

for_his_glory

Fight the good fight of faith
Staff member
Administrator
From
South Carolina
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
Messages
23,268
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Mary crushes his proud head gen 3:15
Enmity is total war
Never uses the word Mary as she is not even mentioned until the NT.
no idols no worship adoration of Mary only God
Then why do Catholics bow down to her, worship her and pray to her as these are abominations to God.
rev 12 the child is Jesus Mary is his mother
When was Mary ever clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: She is still in her grave waiting for the return of Christ, John 3:13
Mother of our salvation
You need to rephrase that as mother of Jesus who is our salvation. Mary, nor anyone can save anyone.
 

Bible

Member
From
Dallas
Gender
Male
Messages
516
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Never uses the word Mary as she is not even mentioned until the NT.

Then why do Catholics bow down to her, worship her and pray to her as these are abominations to God.

When was Mary ever clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: She is still in her grave waiting for the return of Christ, John 3:13

You need to rephrase that as mother of Jesus who is our salvation. Mary, nor anyone can save anyone.
Alright slow down take one thing at a time then
15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
Now Jesus is the seed of the woman
Jesus mother is Mary
So Mary is the woman of gen 3:5 who crushes his proud head by her humility see Lk 1:48
 

Truthfrees

Member
From
following God
Gender
Male
Messages
4,440
Joined
May 24, 2017
i find it interesting that Jesus never called mary his mother - he only called her "woman" - could it be that it was to avoid anyone in future calling her the mother of God?

when told his mother was wanting him he said those who do God's word are his mother brothers and sisters

so in every recorded case Jesus is not elevating mary at all - if anything he is making sure she is thought of as an ordinary person like any other person so that all people are equal and only God is elevated in any way and all ways
 

jaybo

2022 Supporter
From
Santa Fe NM
Gender
Male
Messages
2,061
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
i find it interesting that Jesus never called mary his mother - he only called her "woman" - could it be that it was to avoid anyone in future calling her the mother of God?

when told his mother was wanting him he said those who do his word are his mother brothers and sisters

so in every recorded case Jesus is not elevating mary at all - if anything he is making sure she is thought of as an ordinary person like any other person so that all people are equal and only God is elevated in any way and all ways
I agree with this totally. I don't understand the need to elevate Mary way beyond what Scripture says. The only rationalization I have come up with is the need to elevate the woman/mother into a position that goes way beyond the Bible accounts.

In other words, a person/church has a preformed, unscriptural concept of how Mary (actually Miriam) should be regarded then builds a rationale to fit that concept. That is just one of the reasons to let Scripture -- God's Word -- speak for itself.
 

for_his_glory

Fight the good fight of faith
Staff member
Administrator
From
South Carolina
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
Messages
23,268
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Alright slow down take one thing at a time then
15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
Now Jesus is the seed of the woman
Jesus mother is Mary
So Mary is the woman of gen 3:5 who crushes his proud head by her humility see Lk 1:48
Oh, so Mary is going to crush the head of Satan!!! I thought Jesus said that He was going to cast him into the lake of fire. Wow, how you can read into something that is simply not there. Mary was never mentioned in scripture until Luke 1:26 and the last mention of her in Acts 1:14.

I think you meant Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Break it down as this is prophecy of God in the destruction of Satan.

I (God) will put enmity (opposition which is Jesus) between thee (serpent, Satan, red dragon), and the woman (latter day Israel) and between thy seed (Satan's demons) and her seed (Jesus) and it (Jesus) shall bruise thy head (Serpent, Satan, red Dragon) and thou shall bruise his heel (crucifixion of Christ as Satan thought he silenced Christ once and for all).

NT cross reference:

Romans 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Take your time digesting this.
 

Bible

Member
From
Dallas
Gender
Male
Messages
516
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
i find it interesting that Jesus never called mary his mother - he only called her "woman" - could it be that it was to avoid anyone in future calling her the mother of God?

when told his mother was wanting him he said those who do God's word are his mother brothers and sisters

so in every recorded case Jesus is not elevating mary at all - if anything he is making sure she is thought of as an ordinary person like any other person so that all people are equal and only God is elevated in any way and all ways
He is reminding you of gen 3:15
He was glorifying his mother Lk 1:45
Praise and veneration and honor and devotion given to Mary and the saints is terminated in Jesus Christ cos he is the source of all graces and virtues

2 thes 1:10

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!
 

wondering

CF Ambassador
From
Italy
Gender
Female
Messages
19,700
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Oh, so Mary is going to crush the head of Satan!!! I thought Jesus said that He was going to cast him into the lake of fire. Wow, how you can read into something that is simply not there. Mary was never mentioned in scripture until Luke 1:26 and the last mention of her in Acts 1:14.

I think you meant Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Break it down as this is prophecy of God in the destruction of Satan.

I (God) will put enmity (opposition which is Jesus) between thee (serpent, Satan, red dragon), and the woman (latter day Israel) and between thy seed (Satan's demons) and her seed (Jesus) and it (Jesus) shall bruise thy head (Serpent, Satan, red Dragon) and thou shall bruise his heel (crucifixion of Christ as Satan thought he silenced Christ once and for all).

NT cross reference:

Romans 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Take your time digesting this.
Who do you think the woman in Genesis 3:15 is?
 

jaybo

2022 Supporter
From
Santa Fe NM
Gender
Male
Messages
2,061
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Who do you think the woman in Genesis 3:15 is?
The woman in Genesis 3 is Eve. Genesis 3:8-13, "Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God moving about in the orchard at the breezy time of the day, and they hid[ from the Lord God among the trees of the orchard. But the Lord God called to the man and said to him, “Where are you?” The man replied, “I heard you moving about in the orchard, and I was afraid because I was naked, so I hid.” And the Lord God said, “Who told you that you were naked? Did you eat from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?” The man said, “The woman whom you gave me, she gave me some fruit from the tree and I ate it.” So the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” And the woman replied, “The serpent tricked me, and I ate.”

Clearly God is referring to Eve, Adam's wife. "The man said, “The woman whom you gave me"; clearly Eve. And the woman replied, “The serpent tricked me, and I ate." Again, clearly Eve. She was tricked by the serpent, not another person. Verses 15 and 16 still refer to Eve, not someone else.
 

Bible

Member
From
Dallas
Gender
Male
Messages
516
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
There are no denominations in the Bible only one true church founded by Christ on peter and the apostles Matt 16:18 18:18 jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20
The rule of faith for Christians in not the Bible alone! But the teaching authority of the apostles acts 2:42 matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23
 

Truthfrees

Member
From
following God
Gender
Male
Messages
4,440
Joined
May 24, 2017
He is reminding you of gen 3:15
He was glorifying his mother Lk 1:45
Praise and veneration and honor and devotion given to Mary and the saints is terminated in Jesus Christ cos he is the source of all graces and virtues
actually elizabeth is the one who said that about mary

Jesus said this about everyone who believes what God says John 20:29

so by the standard you are setting where blessed means venerated and honored then we should venerate everyone who believes what God says

i'm seeing no example anywhere of Jesus venerating mary or telling anyone to venerate her or anyone - in fact i don't see where Jesus talked about mary at all to anyone for any reason - he only ever talked about God telling everyone to honor and worship God alone as only God is good he said
 

jaybo

2022 Supporter
From
Santa Fe NM
Gender
Male
Messages
2,061
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Mary the ever Virgin mother of God
Can you show where this title appears in Scripture?

If Jesus had brothers, how is Miriam -- her Hebrew name -- "ever virgin"? (And why is "Virgin" capitalized?)

She is not the "mother of God". That phrase appears nowhere in Scripture.

Sola scriptura.
 

Truthfrees

Member
From
following God
Gender
Male
Messages
4,440
Joined
May 24, 2017
the best i can find is:
1. an angel blessed mary
2. elisabeth blessed mary
3. mary blessed herself
4. God did not speak a blessing over mary but He did speak blessings over many people throughout scripture
5. Jesus did not speak a blessing over mary but he did speak a blessing over many people including those who belive God and honor worship venrate God

it appears to me that God made sure mary was not spoken of more highly than any other believer to make sure that no one worshipped her

just like he made sure no one worshipped moses or the bronze snake that was put on a pole for the healing of many

iow God takes great care to make sure only HE is worshipped and no angel or human
 
Top