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for_his_glory

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The rule of faith for Christians in not the Bible alone! But the teaching authority of the apostles acts 2:42 matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23
Well that's an oxymoron of contradicting yourself.

Do you even know what the Bible is comprised of?
 

for_his_glory

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I don't see that at all. But on the other hand I believe what the Bible actually says instead of overlaying it with my own imagination.
We have to remember the Bible is both literal in parts and prophetic in parts. Genesis 3:15 is literal as in Eve, but yet prophetic of Israel.

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Eve is not the one who will crush the serpents head as this verse talks about her seed (generations). Christ would be the part of Eve's seed born within the lineage of David who on the last day will bruise the heel of Satan casting him into the lake of fire, Rev 20:10 . The seed of the serpent (Satan) is his demons he sends out into the world that works through those to try and silent the word of God from the time of the birth of Christ unto His crucifixion as they thought they did away with Him by having Jesus crucified, not knowing God would raise Him in three days and that He would ascend back up to heaven
 

jaybo

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We have to remember the Bible is both literal in parts and prophetic in parts. Genesis 3:15 is literal as in Eve, but yet prophetic of Israel.

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Eve is not the one who will crush the serpents head as this verse talks about her seed (generations). Christ would be the part of Eve's seed born within the lineage of David who on the last day will bruise the heel of Satan casting him into the lake of fire, Rev 20:10 . The seed of the serpent (Satan) is his demons he sends out into the world that works through those to try and silent the word of God from the time of the birth of Christ unto His crucifixion as they thought they did away with Him by having Jesus crucified, not knowing God would raise Him in three days and that He would ascend back up to heaven
That is some interpretation! It goes way beyond Scripture IMHO.

The section in Genesis says that there will be conflict between the serpent and Eve, including their offspring. He (singular) will strike your head (as one does with snakes) and you (singular) will strike his heel (as snakes do with people). I know I'm in the minority on this but I don't see it as anything more than an oracle that says that humans and Satan will always be in conflict. I don't see this as referring to Christ specifically, any more than it refers to Mary specifically.

IMHO, your saying that Christ would be the part of Eve's seed born within the lineage of David who on the last day will bruise the heel of Satan casting him into the lake of fire goes way beyond a reasonable interpretation. I do agree that "the seed of the serpent (Satan) is his demons that he sends out into the world that works through those to try and silent the word of God from the time of the birth of Christ unto His crucifixion as they thought they did away with Him by having Jesus crucified, not knowing God would raise Him in three days and that He would ascend back up to heaven" (even though that is a classic run-on sentence).
 

for_his_glory

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That is some interpretation! It goes way beyond Scripture IMHO.

The section in Genesis says that there will be conflict between the serpent and Eve, including their offspring. He (singular) will strike your head (as one does with snakes) and you (singular) will strike his heel (as snakes do with people). I know I'm in the minority on this but I don't see it as anything more than an oracle that says that humans and Satan will always be in conflict. I don't see this as referring to Christ specifically, any more than it refers to Mary specifically.

IMHO, your saying that Christ would be the part of Eve's seed born within the lineage of David who on the last day will bruise the heel of Satan casting him into the lake of fire goes way beyond a reasonable interpretation. I do agree that "the seed of the serpent (Satan) is his demons that he sends out into the world that works through those to try and silent the word of God from the time of the birth of Christ unto His crucifixion as they thought they did away with Him by having Jesus crucified, not knowing God would raise Him in three days and that He would ascend back up to heaven" (even though that is a classic run-on sentence).
Did Eve crush the head of the serpent?
 

for_his_glory

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All right then, so that verse is not talking about Eve, but only her seed and the seed of the serpent.

BTW I am not talking about the false teaching of serpent seed in case anyone wonders.
 

Bible

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Well that's an oxymoron of contradicting yourself.

Do you even know what the Bible is comprised of?
Rule of faith cannot be the “Bible Alone” because we did not have a bible until 381 when the church of the apostles by the authority of Christ determined what was and what was not scripture! You only have a bible cos the church wrote one and cannonized it by the authority of Christ thru his apostles!

Could not read
The Bible itself points to authority granted by Christ
The Bible condemns person interpretation of scripture as opposed to the church of the apostles having the authority of Christ to interpret scripture

so how can the rule of faith be the “Bible alone” when it did not even exist until the church approved it in 381 by the authority of Christ in His apostles, what about the millions who could not read most could not read until the 20th century most books including Bible were rare and very expensive all written by hand (mostly by monks who sacrificed their whole life to copy a bible) until the printing press

the Holy Spirit is guaranteed to the apostles Jn 16:13 they are to teach the nations Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 acts 8

in acts 8 did the eunuch know about Christ and baptism from the scripture and the Holy Spirit? No God sent him and apostle


Acts 2:42 the held the doctrine of the apostles
Not the doctrine of the “Bible alone”!

if you believe the doctrine of the “Bible alone”, then there can be no other authority so scratch that verse out of your Bible! And many others that refer to the authority of the apostles!
Btw it’s only by the authority of the apostles that know what is and what is not scripture



Cannot summit to or obey any other authority accept the Bible alone
Even God, or Christ, or His church, or His apostles, or those who He sent and commanded to care for you’re soul!
The Bible is the only authority for a Protestant!

Where does the Bible say the rule of faith is the Bible alone?

the Bible was not assembled and approved until 381 by the apostles btw
Only the apostles said what is and what is not scripture.

What did Christians do in all those years without the “Bible alone”
until the advent of printing bibles were copied by hand and very rare and extremely expensive what did Christians do in those days
Most people were illiterate until the 20th century what did they do?
So you see the “Bible Alone” cannot be the rule of faith for Christians!
Instead we actually believe scripture and submit to and obey the apostles acts 2:42
 

for_his_glory

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Rule of faith cannot be the “Bible Alone” because we did not have a bible until 381 when the church of the apostles by the authority of Christ determined what was and what was not scripture! You only have a bible cos the church wrote one and cannonized it by the authority of Christ thru his apostles!

Could not read
The Bible itself points to authority granted by Christ
The Bible condemns person interpretation of scripture as opposed to the church of the apostles having the authority of Christ to interpret scripture

so how can the rule of faith be the “Bible alone” when it did not even exist until the church approved it in 381 by the authority of Christ in His apostles, what about the millions who could not read most could not read until the 20th century most books including Bible were rare and very expensive all written by hand (mostly by monks who sacrificed their whole life to copy a bible) until the printing press

the Holy Spirit is guaranteed to the apostles Jn 16:13 they are to teach the nations Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 acts 8

in acts 8 did the eunuch know about Christ and baptism from the scripture and the Holy Spirit? No God sent him and apostle


Acts 2:42 the held the doctrine of the apostles
Not the doctrine of the “Bible alone”!

if you believe the doctrine of the “Bible alone”, then there can be no other authority so scratch that verse out of your Bible! And many others that refer to the authority of the apostles!
Btw it’s only by the authority of the apostles that know what is and what is not scripture



Cannot summit to or obey any other authority accept the Bible alone
Even God, or Christ, or His church, or His apostles, or those who He sent and commanded to care for you’re soul!
The Bible is the only authority for a Protestant!

Where does the Bible say the rule of faith is the Bible alone?

the Bible was not assembled and approved until 381 by the apostles btw
Only the apostles said what is and what is not scripture.

What did Christians do in all those years without the “Bible alone”
until the advent of printing bibles were copied by hand and very rare and extremely expensive what did Christians do in those days
Most people were illiterate until the 20th century what did they do?
So you see the “Bible Alone” cannot be the rule of faith for Christians!
Instead we actually believe scripture and submit to and obey the apostles acts 2:42
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (The Bible being the inspired word of God) Romans 10:17.
The Bible is made up of all that the prophets and Apostles wrote.

The Roman Catholic church does define what is and what is not scripture as they go by the catechism of the cannon of the Holy See that is the governing body of the Roman Catholic church of what is allowed to be heard and read only during the Mass.

They determine what is, or is not scripture in the Bible as they have written their own Catholic Bible to enhance their own power and importance. What Catholics hear and read in Mass is not from the Bible as it's from a worship aid in the pew. Catholics, even today are discouraged from reading the Bible as at one time a Catholic wasn't ever allowed to own one, little lone read one. You will not find the prayers of the stages of the cross or the Hail Mary in the Holy Bible as these are only mans doctrines of the Catholic church.

The Priesthood, catechism, the seven sacraments, praying to Mary, the stages of the cross, idol worshiping and the list goes on are all atrocities to God as the Roman Catholic Church governing body takes on the form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof and turn away from God having corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith, 2 Timothy 3:1-9. The Papacy leads many into captivity whose names are not found in the Lamb’s book of life as they have no truth or understanding of Gods word. The success of the Roman Empire over the last two thousand years will be its demise in the end of days when God destroys their power as He sends it to the lake of fire forever as God establishes His Kingdom here on earth, Rev 13; 19.

In all reality you are coming against the Statement of Faith here at CF as you do not believe all that is written in the Bible.

CF Statement of Faith first paragraph: We believe that the Bible is inspired by God in its entirety, and is without error in the original autographs, a complete and final written revelation from God.

2Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

How do you think we learn God's word, like the eunuch, if the Holy Spirit does not anoint those sent out to teach like Philip who was indwelled with the Holy Spirit and sent out into the world. The Prophets and Apostles are all dead, but what God inspired them to write will never die and will always be preached by those in whom God anoints and calls to preach/teach.

Psalms 102:18 This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise the LORD.

Habakkuk 2:2 And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it.

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.


FYI, the Apostles were all dead with John being the last one that died around 100AD. Before the invention of the printing press God's word went out as it did in the OT by inspired man of God through either oral or written words of God.
 
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for_his_glory

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Instead we actually believe scripture and submit to and obey the apostles acts 2:42
We believe scripture and submit to the authority of God who inspired the Prophets and Apostles to write. We do not submit to man, but God only.
 

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Instead we actually believe scripture and submit to and obey the apostles acts 2:42
to clarify the apostles doctrine is recorded in God's written word - also the apostles quoted God's written word exclusively - so we end up back at God's written word alone never anything apart from God's written word - in fact a curse is pronounced on anyone who goes outside God's written word by adding or subtracting from it- here is a link to all scriptures that say this very thing:

 
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Biblical Mary:

Mother of God Lk 1:43

Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus) Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun. Immaculate purity

Lk 1:30 found favor with God (the salvation lost by Adam) mother of our salvation Lk 2:30

Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21
Lk 1:31-34
It appears obvious that this need for Mary to have remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus is extremely important for you in the spiritual sense, but you have not mentioned one word ,that I have seen, as to why ?
The application of this being true as pertaining to the salvation of the person converted in Christ ?
Given the almost desperate need you express for it to be true I find it odd that you never come full circle in connecting the dots & detailing the application this has to the eternal spiritual estate before God ?
Why all the pussyfooting concerning the vital impact you allude to that the perennial virginity of Mary has on a converted in Christ person's final spiritual estate ?
 

Walpole

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It appears obvious that this need for Mary to have remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus is extremely important for you in the spiritual sense, but you have not mentioned one word ,that I have seen, as to why ?
The application of this being true as pertaining to the salvation of the person converted in Christ ?
Given the almost desperate need you express for it to be true I find it odd that you never come full circle in connecting the dots & detailing the application this has to the eternal spiritual estate before God ?
Why all the pussyfooting concerning the vital impact you allude to that the perennial virginity of Mary has on a converted in Christ person's final spiritual estate ?
Because it’s the truth.

Joseph and Mary's marriage was not ordinary in that its teleological end was not procreation, but rather to point to the Kingdom of God. Since they were in the presence of the Most High as the parents of the Incarnate Son of God, their life of continence, like that of their Son's, points to the heavenly Kingdom, as opposed to an earthly and carnal one.

“This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.” (Ezekiel 44:1–2)
 

for_his_glory

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Because it’s the truth.

Joseph and Mary's marriage was not ordinary in that its teleological end was not procreation, but rather to point to the Kingdom of God. Since they were in the presence of the Most High as the parents of the Incarnate Son of God, their life of continence, like that of their Son's, points to the heavenly Kingdom, as opposed to an earthly and carnal one.

“This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.” (Ezekiel 44:1–2)
Not sure what Ezekiel 44:1-2 has to do with the topic. As for the rest of what you have said is only hear say as you give no tangible proof.
 

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Not sure what Ezekiel 44:1-2 has to do with the topic. As for the rest of what you have said is only hear say as you give no tangible proof.
It has everything to do with the perpetual virginity of Mary, which is the topic to which I was responding to another poster.

In Ezekiel 44, the prophet is given a vision of the holiness of the east gate of the Temple. We know our Blessed Lord said that His body is the true temple. (cf. John 2:19-21) Hence if Christ is the true temple prophesied by Ezekiel, then the gate by which He entered into this temple is Mary. She is hence the gate through which the God came in the flesh.

The prophet says the East gate (quite significant) is shut because the Lord has entered by it. For this reason it shall remain shut.
 

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The prophet says the East gate (quite significant) is shut because the Lord has entered by it. For this reason it shall remain shut.
it might match mary if this had not been plainly said about her
- Matthew 1:24-25 - firstborn is different than only born - so he was the only-begotten of God but the firstborn of mary - God did not begat other sons but mary did with joseph
- and Mark 6:3 - joseph only had one wife so these brothers and sisters were born after the firstborn
- and Matthew 12:46 - mother and brothers at the same place at the same time? - this had to be mary's other sons
 

Bible

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Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (The Bible being the inspired word of God) Romans 10:17.
The Bible is made up of all that the prophets and Apostles wrote.

The Roman Catholic church does define what is and what is not scripture as they go by the catechism of the cannon of the Holy See that is the governing body of the Roman Catholic church of what is allowed to be heard and read only during the Mass.

They determine what is, or is not scripture in the Bible as they have written their own Catholic Bible to enhance their own power and importance. What Catholics hear and read in Mass is not from the Bible as it's from a worship aid in the pew. Catholics, even today are discouraged from reading the Bible as at one time a Catholic wasn't ever allowed to own one, little lone read one. You will not find the prayers of the stages of the cross or the Hail Mary in the Holy Bible as these are only mans doctrines of the Catholic church.

The Priesthood, catechism, the seven sacraments, praying to Mary, the stages of the cross, idol worshiping and the list goes on are all atrocities to God as the Roman Catholic Church governing body takes on the form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof and turn away from God having corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith, 2 Timothy 3:1-9. The Papacy leads many into captivity whose names are not found in the Lamb’s book of life as they have no truth or understanding of Gods word. The success of the Roman Empire over the last two thousand years will be its demise in the end of days when God destroys their power as He sends it to the lake of fire forever as God establishes His Kingdom here on earth, Rev 13; 19.

In all reality you are coming against the Statement of Faith here at CF as you do not believe all that is written in the Bible.

CF Statement of Faith first paragraph: We believe that the Bible is inspired by God in its entirety, and is without error in the original autographs, a complete and final written revelation from God.

2Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

How do you think we learn God's word, like the eunuch, if the Holy Spirit does not anoint those sent out to teach like Philip who was indwelled with the Holy Spirit and sent out into the world. The Prophets and Apostles are all dead, but what God inspired them to write will never die and will always be preached by those in whom God anoints and calls to preach/teach.

Psalms 102:18 This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise the LORD.

Habakkuk 2:2 And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it.

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.


FYI, the Apostles were all dead with John being the last one that died around 100AD. Before the invention of the printing press God's word went out as it did in the OT by inspired man of God through either oral or written words of God.
I’m not opposed to the Bible not at all but the doctrine of the “Bible alone”

I would disagree with you’re other assertions but later
 

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it might match mary if this had not been plainly said about her
- Matthew 1:24-25 - firstborn is different than only born - so he was the only-begotten of God but the firstborn of mary - God did not begat other sons but mary did with joseph
Firstborn was a title given AT BIRTH, not after subsequent maternities. (See Exodus 13:1-2) The “firstborn” were not given the title because there was a “second-born.” Rather, it is a title given at birth. Being the firstborn does not require subsequent siblings nor does it imply there are or will even be subsequent siblings.

- and Mark 6:3 - joseph only had one wife so these brothers and sisters were born after the firstborn
- and Matthew 12:46 - mother and brothers at the same place at the same time? - this had to be mary's other sons
I've addressed this many times in these forums. Rather than re-type my answer, I hope you don't mind if I simply direct you to one of the times I have posted the answer to this objection...

---> https://christianforums.net/threads/the-catholic-church.87237/post-1632408
 

Bible

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The twelve sons of Jacob had 4 mothers
The Bible says no sex ever Lk 1:34
It never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept Jesus
 
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