Bible Study Can YHWH? Did He?

[th1b.taylor]

There is a rule in Hermeneutics that cannot, ever, be bypassed. It is; No scripture, collection of scripture nor passage of scripture can ever be fully understood without the light of all scripture shinning on it.



FYI: The Bible is the book or scrolls Yashuah ha’Mashima, Paul, and the other disciples taught from or the first 39 books of the Christian Bible. The following 27 books, misnamed the New Testament, are rightfully included in the Christian Version of the Bible because they, like the previous 39 are God spoken/authored and they are the only known God authored Life Application Commentaries of the Bible Jesus taught from, the Original 27 books chhristians split into 39.



Now the problem with people’s outlook on Predestination. You have not considered all of scripture to have reached this old, old, Baptist position that is so in error but is widely held. I am a Southern Baptist that, because of the late stage of my MS can never take the pulpit again but we must never forget that rule of Hermeneutics. And since Jesus has authored/inspired every word of the Christian Bible, we must also, in our study of the Hermeneutics of the scriptures remember that the Bible we hold in our hands is in all essence from, "In the beginning..." through the very last word of Revelation 22 is of one context and with a single message, Salvation.



With all of that said, Predestination; To understand the predestination spoken of in the Word of God we must go back to before what we know as the beginning, beyond the Creation of the world, the animals and of the creation of man. God created every bit of the Universe we live in. (Genesis 1-3 and John 1:1-5) God also created this Space/Time Continuum we live in! This places God outside of that Continuum in the very Beginning.



There are two attributes of God taught in the scriptures that are essential for understanding; 1. God is Omnipotent and 2. God is Omniscient. The first means there is nothing God cannot do if it is His will to do it and the second means God is present no matter where we go!



In dealing with this it can be hard to wrap the head around but before God created this Time/Space Continuum, He was only found outside of it giving Time no bearing on Him. As such God could write the Book of Life, Predestination, because, though He is here, He is also, right now, in the past and He is also, right this second, in the future and has always been.



It makes the head want to scream, "NO!" But if we remember Those two key elements of God's Character, His Being, it can be no other way because the Perfect Will of God is that none should perish but should come to repentance and to live forever, in Fellowship with Him. (2Pet 3:9)

 

[Jim Parker]

The following 27 books, misnamed the New Testament

Hmmmmm
I believe the 27 books are properly named the "New Testament" (covenant) because the New Covenant in Jesus blood is revealed in them and that covenant (testament) supersedes the Old Covenant described in the Law of Moses' 613 laws.
Jesus fulfilled the old covenant and instituted the new one.

 

[Chopper]

There is only one Covenant, the first, and the renewed.

 

[Chopper]

There is a rule in Hermeneutics that cannot, ever, be bypassed. It is; No scripture, collection of scripture nor passage of scripture can ever be fully understood without the light of all scripture shinning on it.



FYI: The Bible is the book or scrolls Yashuah ha’Mashima, Paul, and the other disciples taught from or the first 39 books of the Christian Bible. The following 27 books, misnamed the New Testament, are rightfully included in the Christian Version of the Bible because they, like the previous 39 are God spoken/authored and they are the only known God authored Life Application Commentaries of the Bible Jesus taught from, the Original 27 books chhristians split into 39.



Now the problem with people’s outlook on Predestination. You have not considered all of scripture to have reached this old, old, Baptist position that is so in error but is widely held. I am a Southern Baptist that, because of the late stage of my MS can never take the pulpit again but we must never forget that rule of Hermeneutics. And since Jesus has authored/inspired every word of the Christian Bible, we must also, in our study of the Hermeneutics of the scriptures remember that the Bible we hold in our hands is in all essence from, "In the beginning..." through the very last word of Revelation 22 is of one context and with a single message, Salvation.



With all of that said, Predestination; To understand the predestination spoken of in the Word of God we must go back to before what we know as the beginning, beyond the Creation of the world, the animals and of the creation of man. God created every bit of the Universe we live in. (Genesis 1-3 and John 1:1-5) God also created this Space/Time Continuum we live in! This places God outside of that Continuum in the very Beginning.



There are two attributes of God taught in the scriptures that are essential for understanding; 1. God is Omnipotent and 2. God is Omniscient. The first means there is nothing God cannot do if it is His will to do it and the second means God is present no matter where we go!



In dealing with this it can be hard to wrap the head around but before God created this Time/Space Continuum, He was only found outside of it giving Time no bearing on Him. As such God could write the Book of Life, Predestination, because, though He is here, He is also, right now, in the past and He is also, right this second, in the future and has always been.



It makes the head want to scream, "NO!" But if we remember Those two key elements of God's Character, His Being, it can be no other way because the Perfect Will of God is that none should perish but should come to repentance and to live forever, in Fellowship with Him. (2Pet 3:9)

Thanks Bill!! I'm blessed every time you write what's on your heart.

 

[Jim Parker]

There is only one Covenant, the first, and the renewed.

The first covenant was between Israel and God. No gentiles were included.
The second covenant is between God and whosoever believes in Jesus Christ, Jews and Gentiles.

Jesus did not "renew" the old covenant he fulfilled it.
Mat 5:17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Jesus stated that He was established a NEW covenant.
Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Mar 14:24 And He said to them, “This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.
Luk 22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

Hebrews also tells us that Jesus established a new covenant.
Heb 8:6-10
But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."

Paul tells us that Jesus made a NEW covenant.
1Co 11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”
2Co 3:5-6 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Where do you find the concept that Jesus renewed the covenant between God and Israel?
I don't see it. Maybe I'm missing something.


iakov the fool

 

[th1b.taylor]

Hmmmmm
I believe the 27 books are properly named the "New Testament" (covenant) because the New Covenant in Jesus blood is revealed in them and that covenant (testament) supersedes the Old Covenant described in the Law of Moses' 613 laws.
Jesus fulfilled the old covenant and instituted the new one.

Not so at all and you have tried to persuade me to disbelieve andd to follow you in that line of thought before meaning this could/would be the spinning of the rear wheels on both trucks but going nowhere.

For those that are not learned I am not trying to begin an argument but trying to avoid, just, that because I am old and tired.

For those learning, the point divided,, completely from the context and having naught to do with any of the points that are important in the context and, indeed, there are an assortment of views on what the New Testament is.

If we return to the Book of Beginnings, Genesis, we first find Abram and his half sister and wife leaving their homeland because YHWH has promised them, what I would say is, the Land of Plenty, YHWH made a contract, a covenant with them.

Later in the recounting of the Life and Adventures of Abram and Sarai the Angel of YHWH and two lessor Angels visited and ate with Abram and Renewed the Covenant between them promised Abram he would father a great nation or nations and thus renamed him Abraham and Sarai to Sarah, Renewing and expanding that Covenant between YHWH, Abraham and his descendants/children.

The first was not superseded but was renewed, much the same as when I were a Carpenter and the Future Owners Wife did not want the 3.0 x 4.0 windows in the Breakfast Nook but demanded, after they be 6.0 x 3.8s. They did not break the contract but rather renewed it and expanded it and our paychecks.

 

[Jim Parker]

Not so at all and you have tried to persuade me to disbelieve andd to follow you in that line of thought before meaning this could/would be the spinning of the rear wheels on both trucks but going nowhere.

For those that are not learned I am not trying to begin an argument but trying to avoid, just, that because I am old and tired.

For those learning, the point divided,, completely from the context and having naught to do with any of the points that are important in the context and, indeed, there are an assortment of views on what the New Testament is.

If we return to the Book of Beginnings, Genesis, we first find Abram and his half sister and wife leaving their homeland because YHWH has promised them, what I would say is, the Land of Plenty, YHWH made a contract, a covenant with them.

Later in the recounting of the Life and Adventures of Abram and Sarai the Angel of YHWH and two lessor Angels visited and ate with Abram and Renewed the Covenant between them promised Abram he would father a great nation or nations and thus renamed him Abraham and Sarai to Sarah, Renewing and expanding that Covenant between YHWH, Abraham and his descendants/children.

The first was not superseded but was renewed, much the same as when I were a Carpenter and the Future Owners Wife did not want the 3.0 x 4.0 windows in the Breakfast Nook but demanded, after they be 6.0 x 3.8s. They did not break the contract but rather renewed it and expanded it and our paychecks.

AH! I see what you are saying.

However: The common usage of "New Covenant" (Testament) is as opposed to the "Old Covenant" which was the agreement between YHWH and Israel (no Gentiles allowed) given through Moses and the New Covenant in Jesus Blood which is between God and all of mankind (Jew AND Gentile) for whoever will follow Jesus.

Also, Jesus did not come to renew God's covenant with Abraham. That covenant remains in tact since God spoke it about 4000 years ago. Jesus came to redeem mankind from the wages of sin by destroying the power of sin and death, and to make eternal life available to all who would believe in Jesus.

And when Jesus spoke of the "New Covenant" in His blood, He said that with reference to the "Old Covenant" which was the Law of Moses, the covenant between God and Israel.

No where in the scriptures does Jesus or any of the NT writers speak of the "renewed Abrahamic covenant."

So, saying Jesus "renewed the covenant" is misleading since you do not make clear to which covenant you are referring.

iakov the fool

 

[th1b.taylor]

Okay but like many Messianic Christians, I lean toward Jesus Renewing every covenant since unlike the lie taught in almost all New Covenant and too many of the Modern New Testament Churches, the Old Testament did not p-ass away, nor was it superseded by the New Testament.

In all truth, the New Testament, seen through any good Chain Referenced version of the scriptures was not just dreamed up, it explains how to apply the Old Testament to our Daily Lives and better than 99% of Professing Christians do not know that truth and thus, the begeting of heresy.

 

[Essenaut]

I will make a new covenant... Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day. Jer 31:31-32 KJV

 

[Chopper]

Christ Came to Fulfill the Law
Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

What follows the "first Covenant" is the "Renewed Covenant" in Yahshua Jesus. If it was a "New" Covenant, it would have to have been established by someone other than Christ Jesus, or by some other method of a final blood sacrifice.

 

[Essenaut]

Renewed Covenant

"This cup is the new covenant"

http://biblehub.com/greek/2537.htm
kainós – properly, new in quality (innovation), fresh in development or opportunity – because "not found exactly like this before."

 

[Jim Parker]

the Old Testament did not p-ass away, nor was it superseded by the New Testament.

Heb 8:13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

In all truth, the New Testament, seen through any good Chain Referenced version of the scriptures was not just dreamed up, it explains how to apply the Old Testament to our Daily Lives and better than 99% of Professing Christians do not know that truth and thus, the begeting of heresy.

The Old Testament was never a way of salvation. It was the way to receive the blessings of long life and prosperity in the land which God gave to Israel.
Deu 30:15-16 See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the LORD your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess.

The New Testament is the way to eternal life no matter what we experience here on earth.
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

And the believer fulfills all the law and the prophets by keeping Jesus new commandment to love.
Jhn 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
Mat 22:37-40 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
Rom 13:8b ...he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

That's how you "apply" the OT; love one another.

 

[Chopper]

"This cup is the new covenant"

http://biblehub.com/greek/2537.htm
kainós – properly, new in quality (innovation), fresh in development or opportunity – because "not found exactly like this before."

I appreciate your attempts at calling the New Testament "New". On the surface, and using Greek manuscripts, it would appear to be new. I am using ancient Hebrew writings of Moses as it appears in the Torah.

In order to understand the one Covenant position (1st Covenant & renewed Covenant) one must study (I mean a thorough study) of the Torah (first five books of scripture). I recommend at least 5 times thru the Torah, and then a new light will shine with understanding.

 

[stovebolts]

The way I understand it, God made several covenants at various times.
From the Torah, I recall three covenants.
1. Noah in regards to the flood and the rainbow as a reminder.
2. Abraham, that he would be the Father of many nations.
3. Mosaic at Mt. Sinai between YHVH and Israel.
Moses writes of Jesus, the messaih.
From the Tanach I recall these.
1. Davidic promising Judah would always be on the throne. Points toward Jesus and the messianic era.
2. The promise of a new, better covenant. This is in reference to the Mosiac covenant. This is found both in Jeremiah and Ezekial.

This brings us to the Messianic era where Jesus proclaims the New Covenat in His blood.

 

[Essenaut]

I appreciate your attempts at calling the New Testament "New". On the surface, and using Greek manuscripts, it would appear to be new. I am using ancient Hebrew writings of Moses as it appears in the Torah.

In order to understand the one Covenant position (1st Covenant & renewed Covenant) one must study (I mean a thorough study) of the Torah (first five books of scripture). I recommend at least 5 times thru the Torah, and then a new light will shine with understanding.

Yeah I used to follow Hebrew Roots nonsense too until they said Christians would still be doing sacrifices if the temple were up. I understand the Torah, and I've read Hebrew. Jeremiah literally says there will be a new (not renewed) covenant, and will not be like the old. Both testaments say the old covenant are obselete. The Hebrew isn't mysticslly more special or any different than the Greek. If anything it would be the other way around since it says that some have a veil when trying to read the old covenant.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I will make a new covenant... Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day. Jer 31:31-32 KJV

Now, please ask somebody that knows the Koine-Greek and has a Jewish-Christian background to read it to youu from the Dead Sea Scrolls, prerferably. It should never become a major disagreement anyway because it has a great deal to do with where we come from in our daily and weekly studies.

May YHWH always bless His Word into your heart.

 

[Jim Parker]

I am using ancient Hebrew writings of Moses as it appears in the Torah.

The New Covenant was not written in Hebrew. It was written in Greek.
We have the words of Jesus in the Greek.
He said:
Mat 26:28 ...this is My blood of the new covenant, ...
Mar 14:24 ... He said to them, “This is My blood of the new covenant, ...
Luk 22:20 ... He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

I am totally baffled as to why you continue to insist that there is no new covenant when Jesus specifically stated that that He established the New Covenant in His blood.

The Old Covenant was established in the blood of sacrificial animals.'The New Covenant was established in the blood of the Son of God.

The Old Covenant could not take away sin. The sacrifices of the OT pointed to the sacrifice of the Son of God which did take away sin, all sin, for all time.

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
Heb 10:9-12 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God. He takes away the first that He may establish the second. By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God,

God specifically stated that He would establish a New Covenant;
Jer 31:31-32
Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD.

And Jesus announced the establishment of that New Covenant.
Mat 26:28 ...this is My blood of the new covenant, ...

 

[th1b.taylor]

The Old Testament was never a way of salvation. It was the way to receive the blessings of long life and prosperity in the land which God gave to Israel.

I have already explained that I will not entertain a fight and I will not get into any serious arguments about this OP but I will respond to this single portion because it needs verification.

Yhwh, Yashuah and Ruah are not uninformed about anything. YHWH knew before He created the first item that can be noted on a silly list of what He has done because if it is within our scope of understanding, He created it. (John 1:1-3)

The Triune Godhead knew that no man could ever live the perfect life save a member of the Godhead taking on flesh and and then saving His Frowning Creation, Himself. The Law, from
Adam forward and through today, was never intended to save a single person and it did not.

In the scriptures we see the Jewish Believers disobeying Him and then attempting to appease the LORD with their redefining what had been spoken to them, such as they did not preach and they did not even wish to teach the Gentiles the Law.

Although it is erronously taught that obedience to the Law was the Old Testament path to Heaven and Salvation, Matthew 27:51 and sa couple of more demonstrate the untruth of it without even study7ing the Old Testament. From the beginning, even Abraham was saved by faith.

 

[for_his_glory]

What makes up our Bible is that of the various scrolls known as the Dead Sea Scrolls that were written by the Prophets and the Apostles as letters written in Hebrew and Aramaic that make up the Torah and what we call the New Testament. What Jesus taught in the NT comes straight from the teachings in the Torah as prophecy and covenants being fulfilled in the birth, death and resurrection of Christ through that of God's grace. Grace and faith has always been from the beginning in Genesis clear through Revelation as God draws us to Him as this is the salvation of God from the time Adam and Eve sinned and God clothed him and Eve. Below is a list of those covenants God made with man.

God's Covenant Promises

With Noah to save him and his family, Genesis 6:18

With Noah and his descendants to never again destroy the world by flood. (Genesis 9:9-17)

With Abram to give him and his descendants the land we call Israel today and to destroy the inhabitants of that land because of their great sins (Genesis 15:18-21)

God's follow-up with Abram, changing his name to Abraham, and designating him the father of many nations and millions of descendants, and adding the covenant of circumcision, and promising him Isaac as a son and the inheritor of it (Genesis chapter 17). God made His with Abraham unconditional. (Genesis 22:12-18)

God's conditional one with the children of Israel, requiring their keeping God's law and circumcision, in return for physical blessings (Exodus 19-4). Further terms (conditions) of this covenant were expounded later (Leviticus chapters 25-27; Deuteronomy chapters 29- 31).

With the children of Israel concerning the Sabbath. (Exodus 31:14-18)

God's concerning the Ten Commandments and Holy Days designated by God. (Exodus 34:10 - 35)

God's concerning the bread in the Tabernacle, and later the Temple, to be eaten only by the priests, descendants of Aaron. (Leviticus 24:8,9)

God promised a new covenant in the Bible. (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

God, in the Bible, spoke of His unconditional covenant with King David of Israel and of His continuing, unconditional covenant with Jacob's descendants. (Jeremiah 33:19-36)

God spoke of "divorcing" Israel and Judah, thus ending the earlier covenant, and of establishing a new one with them. (Ezekiel 16:59-63)

The most important one is a new testament or a covenant of fulfillment in Jesus and established by Jesus upon His death on the cross. (Matthew 26:28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Hebrews chapters 7 - 10). Paul described the only new ritual of it. (1Corinthians 11:23-30)

 

[th1b.taylor]

The New Covenant was not written in Hebrew. It was written in Greek.
We have the words of Jesus in the Greek.
He said:
Mat 26:28 ...this is My blood of the new covenant, ...
Mar 14:24 ... He said to them, “This is My blood of the new covenant, ...
Luk 22:20 ... He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

I am totally baffled as to why you continue to insist that there is no new covenant when Jesus specifically stated that that He established the New Covenant in His blood.

The Old Covenant was established in the blood of sacrificial animals.'The New Covenant was established in the blood of the Son of God.

The Old Covenant could not take away sin. The sacrifices of the OT pointed to the sacrifice of the Son of God which did take away sin, all sin, for all time.

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
Heb 10:9-12 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God. He takes away the first that He may establish the second. By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God,

God specifically stated that He would establish a New Covenant;
Jer 31:31-32
Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD.Koine-Greek

And Jesus announced the establishment of that New Covenant.
Mat 26:28 ...this is My blood of the new covenant, ...

Jim,
Please, Chopper and I both know the New Testament is recorded first in Koine-Greek but the first shots fire were aqt the Hebrew3 portion and ow, it appears you and the others seek to discredit the work completed on any Hedbrrew amesw Version of the Scriptures. That makes no sense to me or, Ia believe the average thinking man.