J
joyinhim
Guest
Jesus says "love your enemy" Why do so many Chrisitans join the military? I dont believe Jesus wants us to join the military. 
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Blazin Bones
Member
What do you say to the draft?
K
kwag_myers
Guest
We love the sinner, but hate the sin. Why do you think God commanded Joshua to kill every person and living thing when they began to occupy the Promise Land? Because of the sin, the evil forces that inhabited the land.joyinhim said:Jesus says "love your enemy" Why do so many Chrisitans join the military? I dont believe Jesus wants us to join the military.
Why would Jesus tell His disciples to buy a sword? (Luke 22:36)
What was it Jesus was talking about in Matthew 11:12?
I think we need to pray for our Christian brothers and sisters in the military, not judge them.
J
joyinhim
Guest
If we get drafted we dont have a choice. I am talking about joining the military voluntarily.
J
joyinhim
Guest
kwag_myers said:We love the sinner, but hate the sin. Why do you think God commanded Joshua to kill every person and living thing when they began to occupy the Promise Land? Because of the sin, the evil forces that occupied the land.joyinhim said:Jesus says "love your enemy" Why do so many Chrisitans join the military? I dont believe Jesus wants us to join the military.
Why would Jesus tell His disciples to buy a sword? (Luke 22:36)
What was it Jesus was talking about in Matthew 11:12?
I think we need to pray for our Christian brothers and sisters in the military, not judge them.
Jesus got rid of many of the OT laws. and I believe the military is one of them.
Sword in the NT is the scripture.
In Matthew 11:12, it is not about the real force: its about entering into the Kingdom.
Why do we always use the word "judge" when we express our observation? It's way over used. Thanks
K
kwag_myers
Guest
I can see where Jesus did away with many traditions and He gave us new commandments, but I don't see anything about the military.joyinhim said:
J
joyinhim
Guest
kwag_myers said:
I interpreted this way because Jesus says love your enemy. It seems very clear on the military. 8-)
"'Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Will he not first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand? If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace.'" Luke 14:31-32. Jesus wasn't afraid to use war as an example while trying to teach something.
-McQ 8-)
-McQ 8-)
K
kwag_myers
Guest
I agree that we are to love our enemies. But what makes you think that we must tolerate their murderous plots against anyone they choose?joyinhim said:
Maybe we should have just let Hitler continue killing Jews and bombing London. Maybe we should just let terrorist do what ever they want. Is that what we should do?
Stop criticizing what others are doing and offer us some realistic solutions. All you have done here is to find fault. You offer no solutions to the issues that today's military faces.
J
joyinhim
Guest
kwag_myers said:
Quag, I am sorry you feel this way, Christian community is pretty much a disaster and not too much to be positive about it. I will not be dishonest and sugarcoat the reality.
We have been closing our eyes on the reality and the truth. That's why we have such mega churches everywhere without much of God's power.
I offered solution; We should stop supporting the military and wait and see what God does for us. He may surprise you.
J
joyinhim
Guest
kwag_myers said:
kwag, I am sorry you feel this way, Christian community is pretty much a disaster and not too much to be positive about it. I will not be dishonest and sugarcoat the reality.
We have been closing our eyes on the reality and the truth. That's why we have such mega churches everywhere without much of God's power.
I offered solution; We should stop supporting the military and wait and see what God does for us. He may surprise you.
K
kwag_myers
Guest
I believe that the Jews tried that with Hitler. On the other hand, during Desert Storm there were signs and bumper stickers all over the place telling people to "pray for peace". It didn't take long and I believe that God honored those prayers and blessed the military.joyinhim said:
Getting back to your "...Sword in the NT is the scripture.", tell me how that metaphor works within the context of these scriptures:
Matthew 26:51
Acts 12:2
Luke 22:36
J
joyinhim
Guest
kwag_myers said:
Most jews are not Christians and God did not support them.
Matt 26:51 When Peter used sword Jesus rebuked him and did not let peter use the sword.
Acts 12:2 Herod used sword and killed James
Luke 22:36 Jesus meant the Scriptures. His Word.
Hi Joy
I think the point that kwag was trying to make would be based on your saying this...
Which in turn, when applied to Matthew 26:52...
52 But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
Jesus would in effect, by your interpretation be saying "for all who take up My Word, will perish by my Word"
Jesus was only teaching Peter to submit to authorities. Romans 13:1-5
Romans 13:1-5 1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake.
I not so sure that someone was selling Bibles back then.
The NT was spread by word of mouth. Jesus is speaking of an actual sword.
Luke 11:21 When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace.
Does God allow our government to wage war?
http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/sf-02.htm
A Biblical Perspective on War
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/80-241.htm
War in the Gulf, A Biblical Perspective (Part 1)
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/90-48.htm
A Biblical Perspective (Part 2)
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/90-49.htm
A Biblical Perspective (Part 3)
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/90-50.htm
A Biblical Perspective of Tuesday's Terrorist Attacks
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/undersiege.htm
What Would Jesus Do about War with Iraq?"
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/mac-lkl2.htm
Can a true Christian be involved physically and willingly in a war against other nations?
http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/1301-W-5.htm
A Biblical Perspective on Death, Terrorism, and the Middle East
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/80-240.htm
"Seeking Meaning in the Aftermath of War"
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/mac-lkl3.htm
Peace
I think the point that kwag was trying to make would be based on your saying this...
Which in turn, when applied to Matthew 26:52...
52 But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
Jesus would in effect, by your interpretation be saying "for all who take up My Word, will perish by my Word"
Jesus was only teaching Peter to submit to authorities. Romans 13:1-5
Romans 13:1-5 1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake.
I not so sure that someone was selling Bibles back then.
The NT was spread by word of mouth. Jesus is speaking of an actual sword.Luke 11:21 When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace.
Does God allow our government to wage war?
http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/sf-02.htm
A Biblical Perspective on War
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/80-241.htm
War in the Gulf, A Biblical Perspective (Part 1)
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/90-48.htm
A Biblical Perspective (Part 2)
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/90-49.htm
A Biblical Perspective (Part 3)
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/90-50.htm
A Biblical Perspective of Tuesday's Terrorist Attacks
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/undersiege.htm
What Would Jesus Do about War with Iraq?"
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/mac-lkl2.htm
Can a true Christian be involved physically and willingly in a war against other nations?
http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/1301-W-5.htm
A Biblical Perspective on Death, Terrorism, and the Middle East
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/80-240.htm
"Seeking Meaning in the Aftermath of War"
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/mac-lkl3.htm
Peace
J
joyinhim
Guest
Dave... said:
I not so sure that someone was selling Bibles back then.
The NT was spread by word of mouth. Jesus is speaking of an actual sword.Luke 11:21 When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace.
Does God allow our government to wage war?
http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/sf-02.htm
A Biblical Perspective on War
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/80-241.htm
War in the Gulf, A Biblical Perspective (Part 1)
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/90-48.htm
A Biblical Perspective (Part 2)
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/90-49.htm
A Biblical Perspective (Part 3)
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/90-50.htm
A Biblical Perspective of Tuesday's Terrorist Attacks
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/undersiege.htm
What Would Jesus Do about War with Iraq?"
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/mac-lkl2.htm
Can a true Christian be involved physically and willingly in a war against other nations?
http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/1301-W-5.htm
A Biblical Perspective on Death, Terrorism, and the Middle East
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/80-240.htm
"Seeking Meaning in the Aftermath of War"
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/mac-lkl3.htm
Peace[/quote:22e8b]
Dave, I understand your position.
No they did not have the Bible like nowadays, but I trully believe He meant God's Word.
I can bring up many verses to support what I believe but I will not go into debate.
I hope you take heed of what "love your enemy" means.
K
kwag_myers
Guest
Thanks Dave for helping me with that.
Joyinhim, we aren't disagreeing with you on loving our enemies. I just don't believe in passively sitting back and telling God, "Someone flew planes into our buildings and killed a bunch of us. Could you make them stop, please."
Sure, we fight not against flesh and blood, but against...powers, etc. (Ephesians 6:12). We who are not in the military need to stand with those who are by covering them with prayer.
Joyinhim, we aren't disagreeing with you on loving our enemies. I just don't believe in passively sitting back and telling God, "Someone flew planes into our buildings and killed a bunch of us. Could you make them stop, please."
Sure, we fight not against flesh and blood, but against...powers, etc. (Ephesians 6:12). We who are not in the military need to stand with those who are by covering them with prayer.
J
joyinhim
Guest
kwag_myers said:
If you love your enemy like you say you do then you should show with what you do. We really don't know exactly what the gervernments are up to, do we?.
K
kwag_myers
Guest
I love my children, but I hate when they sin and punish them when they disobey. Passiveness is just an excuse to do nothing. It's not love at all.
J
joyinhim
Guest
kwag_myers said:
Other countries are not like children. We don't have the right to judge other countries without even knowing what is going on. You are still avoiding my question: Do you know exactly what is going between the countries?
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven; A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.