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brightfame52

Calvinism Overseer
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Whenever we make anything a must do prior to God saving us, and God saves us because of that we must do ir have done, we automatically forfeit salvation by Grace and come under the opposing view of salvation by works.
If a person says that they were saved after they obeyed, or after they believed, this person is in essence saying, salvation is of myself, of my work, and whether they admit it or not, they have something to boast of. Yet Gods word insists that salvation is the Gift of God, not of man, its not of works lest any man boast Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 
Justification is by grace through faith, not from yourself and not by works. It is by faith alone since all human efforts are excluded here, Ephesians 2:8, 9. Ephesians goes on to say that every person who has faith is to produce good works according to God's plan Ephesians 2:10. We know also that faith without works is dead faith

These works, however, are not a cause for forgiveness, but a result of forgiveness. Faith alone justifies, but faith is never alone as it is followed by good works. The works of love are the goal of the saving faith, 1 Timothy 1:5.

James 1:16-18 clearly teaches that the recipients of the letter have been justified by God through the saving gospel which is Christ Jesus who is our faith. James also taught in James 2:14-26 that faith is dead within us if not followed by good works as it takes faith and good works to justify us. It begins with faith alone when we first accept Jesus as Lord and Savior entering into a better covenant by God's grace and then we become his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
Whenever we make anything a must do prior to God saving us, and God saves us because of that we must do ir have done, we automatically forfeit salvation by Grace and come under the opposing view of salvation by works.
If a person says that they were saved after they obeyed, or after they believed, this person is in essence saying, salvation is of myself, of my work, and whether they admit it or not, they have something to boast of. Yet Gods word insists that salvation is the Gift of God, not of man, its not of works lest any man boast Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The condition by which a person is saved... is believe.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Luke 8:12




JLB
 
Whenever we make anything a must do prior to God saving us, and God saves us because of that we must do ir have done, we automatically forfeit salvation by Grace and come under the opposing view of salvation by works.
If a person says that they were saved after they obeyed, or after they believed, this person is in essence saying, salvation is of myself, of my work, and whether they admit it or not, they have something to boast of. Yet Gods word insists that salvation is the Gift of God, not of man, its not of works lest any man boast Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
How do you integrate Titus 3:5 into your POV?
It is written..."Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;"
 
Whenever we make anything a must do prior to God saving us, and God saves us because of that we must do ir have done, we automatically forfeit salvation by Grace and come under the opposing view of salvation by works.
If a person says that they were saved after they obeyed, or after they believed, this person is in essence saying, salvation is of myself, of my work, and whether they admit it or not, they have something to boast of. Yet Gods word insists that salvation is the Gift of God, not of man, its not of works lest any man boast Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For me the pairing of " obeyed " with " believed " when making application to salvation
is like pairing apples with oranges.
They are nowhere near the same
I have never heard someone say they were saved after they "obeyed"
From your statement I am assuming you have heard someone make that claim?
What exactly did they claim obedience too ?
 
Whenever we make anything a must do prior to God saving us, and God saves us because of that we must do ir have done, we automatically forfeit salvation by Grace and come under the opposing view of salvation by works.
If a person says that they were saved after they obeyed, or after they believed, this person is in essence saying, salvation is of myself, of my work, and whether they admit it or not, they have something to boast of. Yet Gods word insists that salvation is the Gift of God, not of man, its not of works lest any man boast Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Faith in what?
What do the "saved" have faith in that others don't?
 
For me the pairing of " obeyed " with " believed " when making application to salvation
is like pairing apples with oranges.
They are nowhere near the same
I have never heard someone say they were saved after they "obeyed"

Believe and obey are synonymous in the original language.

Here is one example


He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
John 3:36 NKJV


The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”
John 3:36 NASB


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9
 
Many tell us that in order to get saved you must accept Christ, now understand, if we call ourselves accepting Christ to get saved, that would be a work, since its an action we do. The word for work ergon:

  1. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

So accepting Christ is an act on our part. But the scripture teaches Salvation without works See Eph 2:8-9; 2 Tim 1:9

Yes, if we must perform any act to get, or keep salvation, its no longer salvation by grace, but of works. 458
 
Believe and obey are synonymous in the original language.

Here is one example


The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”
John 3:36 NASB
Why then did David not lose "eternal life" in his failure to obey in his murdering, Lying, & adultery according to the quote you give, "John3:36 NASB "?
David already BELIEVING that murdering, lying, adultery are acts God commands us to refrain from, how then would committing murder, lying, adultery not be contradictory acts of failure to obey committed against what is already believed ?
Based upon David's own well documented deceitful efforts to conceal his disobedience He knew without a doubt he had violated what he BELIEVED what was incumbent upon him to OBEY .
Actually in David's case it was worse than just a mere failure to obey .
He actually " despised ". what he believed was incumbent upon him through belief to obey .
" Wherefore hast thou DESPISED the commandment of the Lord,
to do evil in His sight,"
( 2 Samuel 12:9 )

They are not synonymous.
If they were you could name someone in scripture who " BELIEVED IN CHRIST" yet lost eternal life by failure to OBEY ?
I've never seen that pointed out, and I don't believe you can do so either.
Merry Christmas, Conscecrated Life
 
Many tell us that in order to get saved you must accept Christ, now understand, if we call ourselves accepting Christ to get saved, that would be a work, since its an action we do. The word for work ergon:

  1. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

So accepting Christ is an act on our part. But the scripture teaches Salvation without works See Eph 2:8-9; 2 Tim 1:9

Yes, if we must perform any act to get, or keep salvation, its no longer salvation by grace, but of works. 458
So, are you saying that accepting God's free gift of grace that whosoever by faith and belief is a work on our part as that comes against scripture. No one can work for their salvation. Why would you have to work for something that is freely given.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
 
So, are you saying that accepting God's free gift of grace that whosoever by faith and belief is a work on our part as that comes against scripture. No one can work for their salvation. Why would you have to work for something that is freely given.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
if we must perform any act to get, or keep salvation, its no longer salvation by grace, but of works.
 
Many tell us that in order to get saved you must accept Christ, now understand, if we call ourselves accepting Christ to get saved, that would be a work, since its an action we do. The word for work ergon:

  1. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

So accepting Christ is an act on our part. But the scripture teaches Salvation without works See Eph 2:8-9; 2 Tim 1:9

Yes, if we must perform any act to get, or keep salvation, its no longer salvation by grace, but of works. 458
I'm sure glad I was presented with the opportunity to accept, and serve Christ.
(Not to mention repent of sin and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins so I could endure till the end.)
I don't care if you call it "works salvation", because I know the "works salvation" Paul wrote against was the works of the Law for salvation. ie. circumcision, dietary laws, etc.
 
If they ask you, 'What is the sign of your Father in you?' say to them, 'it is movement and repose.'
-From the Lost Gospel of Thomas
 
When the Jailer in Acts 16:30 asked what must I do to be saved,

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

He wasn't asking about what qualifying action he can do to get himself saved, for he never used the word get as in get saved, but he used the word be, as be saved. The words be saved here are in the passive voice wherein the subject is the recipient of the action, for he was speaking from a frame of helplessness, hopelessness. Paul's response was not that he should do, act, or perform but to believe, that's promoting Faith and not works. Paul knew that believing was the Gift of God, that is, to believe in Christ savingly wasn't a natural inherent quality of the natural man, believing is having been given the Gift of Faith Eph 2:8. Paul testified to the fact that believing on Christ was something God gives here Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

That word given is basically the same word for grace charizomai derived from and the middle voice of charis translated 130 times in the NT as Grace.

So people believe because of Grace Acts 18:27.

So now, even though technically believing is a doing, which technically is a work, nobody has the ability to believe until God by Grace, by Grace doing, its Gods Grace and Spirit working in the Spirit sanctified sinner causing the sinner to believe. No man by nature can truly believe in Christ as Saviour without first being saved by Grace and given the gift of Faith, so it is written 1 Pet 1:21

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Phil 2:13

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

The do the Jailer needed to do to be saved, God needed to first worketh in him to do.

So that's how Salvation by works and Faith can be scripturally contrasted, when credit is given to Grace for a person doing the believing, and believing wasn't a natural freewill ability they had of themselves prior to regeneration.

But if we insist that believing was a condition we met prior to being saved by grace, and we did it as natural men, and as a result, God saved us, that's making believing, faith a work we do for salvation.
 
When the Jailer in Acts 16:30 asked what must I do to be saved,

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

He wasn't asking about what qualifying action he can do to get himself saved, for he never used the word get as in get saved, but he used the word be, as be saved. The words be saved here are in the passive voice wherein the subject is the recipient of the action, for he was speaking from a frame of helplessness, hopelessness. Paul's response was not that he should do, act, or perform but to believe, that's promoting Faith and not works. Paul knew that believing was the Gift of God, that is, to believe in Christ savingly wasn't a natural inherent quality of the natural man, believing is having been given the Gift of Faith Eph 2:8. Paul testified to the fact that believing on Christ was something God gives here Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

That word given is basically the same word for grace charizomai derived from and the middle voice of charis translated 130 times in the NT as Grace.

So people believe because of Grace Acts 18:27.

So now, even though technically believing is a doing, which technically is a work, nobody has the ability to believe until God by Grace, by Grace doing, its Gods Grace and Spirit working in the Spirit sanctified sinner causing the sinner to believe. No man by nature can truly believe in Christ as Saviour without first being saved by Grace and given the gift of Faith, so it is written 1 Pet 1:21

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Phil 2:13

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

The do the Jailer needed to do to be saved, God needed to first worketh in him to do.

So that's how Salvation by works and Faith can be scripturally contrasted, when credit is given to Grace for a person doing the believing, and believing wasn't a natural freewill ability they had of themselves prior to regeneration.

But if we insist that believing was a condition we met prior to being saved by grace, and we did it as natural men, and as a result, God saved us, that's making believing, faith a work we do for salvation.
I'll stick with Jesus' "formula" for salvation..."He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; " (Mark 16:16)
 
The glorious name of JESUS CHRIST . No other name , no other religion
no other mindset can save one . Let all that draws breath praise
the glorious Lord .
Amen to that.
I praise God for making it possible to baptized in that name for the remission of my past sins.
It is written..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
 
When the Jailer in Acts 16:30 asked what must I do to be saved,

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

He wasn't asking about what qualifying action he can do to get himself saved, for he never used the word get as in get saved, but he used the word be, as be saved. The words be saved here are in the passive voice wherein the subject is the recipient of the action, for he was speaking from a frame of helplessness, hopelessness. Paul's response was not that he should do, act, or perform but to believe, that's promoting Faith and not works. Paul knew that believing was the Gift of God, that is, to believe in Christ savingly wasn't a natural inherent quality of the natural man, believing is having been given the Gift of Faith Eph 2:8. Paul testified to the fact that believing on Christ was something God gives here Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

That word given is basically the same word for grace charizomai derived from and the middle voice of charis translated 130 times in the NT as Grace.

So people believe because of Grace Acts 18:27.

So now, even though technically believing is a doing, which technically is a work, nobody has the ability to believe until God by Grace, by Grace doing, its Gods Grace and Spirit working in the Spirit sanctified sinner causing the sinner to believe. No man by nature can truly believe in Christ as Saviour without first being saved by Grace and given the gift of Faith, so it is written 1 Pet 1:21

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Phil 2:13

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

The do the Jailer needed to do to be saved, God needed to first worketh in him to do.

So that's how Salvation by works and Faith can be scripturally contrasted, when credit is given to Grace for a person doing the believing, and believing wasn't a natural freewill ability they had of themselves prior to regeneration.

But if we insist that believing was a condition we met prior to being saved by grace, and we did it as natural men, and as a result, God saved us, that's making believing, faith a work we do for salvation.

Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” John 6:29
 
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