Conditional salvation is works salvation !

[brightfame52]

If one is supposedly saved or justified after some action of theirs, like making a decision or what have you, that is salvation or justification by works and not grace. Whenever salvation is conditioned on a person doing is works !

 

[PeterJens]

If one is supposedly saved or justified after some action of theirs, like making a decision or what have you, that is salvation or justification by works and not grace. Whenever salvation is conditioned on a person doing is works !

the word of God came to John son of Zechariah in the desert.
He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
Luke 3:2-3

John the baptist prepared the way for Jesus by preaching baptism of repentance. This was repenting of ones sins, choosing to acknowledge ones sinful action are worthy of judgement and choosing to no longer sin, but walk the path of righteousness, shown by baptism in water. The strength of this baptism is it brings forgiveness of sins.

Now the cross is the eternal sacrifice for sins, but the forgiveness of sins is not the big problem, it is the walking in righteousness. And the cross is the symbol of God loving us despite our sin, with the promise to anoint us in the Holy Spirit, to change our hearts and enable us to love from within to without.

Now if one has a sterile view of this all, that it is just a spiritual transaction with God, the sinners never need face judgement, God just has to call everyone christian, and everyone is in heaven. In this theological landscape you cannot justify Gods judgement of mankind or their guilt, or the justice of God. Equally there is no reason no to bring heaven to earth now. It is a version of universalism, where God tortures people for all eternity because He wants to, and spares those He wants to at his own whim. Is that love or a loving God?

How can those who hate God, though at some point they professed faith be faithful servants of the Most high worthy of reward?

The problem with repressed emotion and factual emotional power running in ones life against Gods will or revelation, is unless one becomes like a child, one is blind for all ones life. The door to the Kingdom is an emotional acknowledgement we need Gods work in our hearts, His path to follow and His forgiveness, for the deeds we do not know why or how we behave as we do, but we believe He can deliver us.

God bless you

 

[JLB]

If one is supposedly saved or justified after some action of theirs, like making a decision or what have you, that is salvation or justification by works and not grace. Whenever salvation is conditioned on a person doing is works !

That is your opinion.


Scripture teaches us that the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation for those who believe.


For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 1:16


Believing is the condition for receiving salvation; eternal life


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


How can someone believe in Christ Jesus if they have never heard the Gospel?


And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?






JLB

 

[JLB]

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved

These who heard the Gospel and thus, it was in their heart, were not saved because they did not believe.



Your phony Gospel whereby God saves people apart from hearing and believing the Gospel, will no longer be allowed in this Community.


It’s a “Christ-less” salvation message, that is not from God.



And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?






JLB

 

[Edward]

It's like receiving a signature required special delivery from the UPS truck. They deliver it to your door and knock.
Yes, you have to get up and answer the door.
Yes, you need to provide certification of delivery through signature.
If you sit on your couch and wont answer the door to acknowledge the desire to to receive the gift which someone else paid for...they will drive away and not leave the packaged gift on your porch. Signature required.

Answering the door is not work.
providing my signature is not work.

And all that proves really, is that I was not stillborn. It proves I am alive. Who wont go answer the door?!

...well it's not in my job description, he said.

Then it's like Trump used to say, You're fired! No of course that's a joke but I've had employees before and that's a good way to get fired (to me). If you don't have enough initiative to answer the door to receive a delivery then we can't use you.

 

[JLB]

If you don't have enough initiative to answer the door to receive a delivery then we can't use you.

Likewise you also won’t bother to go and lay down your life for others, enduring hardship and suffering to obey your Lord where He sends you, if you won’t bother to get up and answer the door.



But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.
For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ Matthew 25:26-30

• And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

It seems that Christ and His salvation that is being presented today, is unrecognizable from the one in scripture.







JLB

 

[jaybo]

Likewise you also won’t bother to go and lay down your life for others, enduring hardship and suffering to obey your Lord where He sends you, if you won’t bother to get up and answer the door.



But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.
For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ Matthew 25:26-30

• And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

It seems the Christ and His salvation that is being presented today, is unrecognizable from the one in scripture.







JLB

I assume that this is a direct reply to Edward's post. Otherwise it sounds like an overall condemnation of the church.

 

[JLB]

I assume that this is a direct reply to Edward's post. Otherwise it sounds like an overall condemnation of the church.

It is a reply to Edward.


We are addressing the “doctrine” that “believing” is salvation by works.



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

If one is supposedly saved or justified after some action of theirs, like making a decision or what have you, that is salvation or justification by works and not grace. Whenever salvation is conditioned on a person doing is works !

The action we take on our part towards God's salvation through Christ Jesus is to only believe that He is the Christ, the Son of the living God who laid His life down and God raised Him from the dead so we now have eternal life through Him.

If one does not first believe in anything, then everything will be void in their life.

 

[brightfame52]

If we say that God wont save an individual unless that individual accepts Christ or accepts Gods Grace, thats nothing short of promoting salvation by works, or salvation conditioned on what a person does, their act. See salvation is solely by Grace, its given and its received by the ones its given to by Grace. Grace isnt an offer, it sovereignly makes one alive Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened[made alive] us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

A person doesnt need to accept whether or not God will make them alive or not. The dead lazarus wasn't offered to be made alive by Christ, he had no decision to make, it was Christs will alone and His Fathers that they may be glorified Jn 11:4

When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

Hence those who say that Grace must be accepted in order for God to save you, are making the final condition for salvation contingent on what a person does, its nothing but good old mans religion motivated by the spiritually dead carnal mind. Its salvation by works !

 

[brightfame52]

The action we take on our part towards God's salvation through Christ Jesus is to only believe that He is the Christ, the Son of the living God who laid His life down and God raised Him from the dead so we now have eternal life through Him.

If one does not first believe in anything, then everything will be void in their life.

That action constitutes works !

 

[PeterJens]

That action constitutes works !

Is God to you only a God of transactions which do not touch our hearts?

Life is defined by our factual emotional transactions we have one with another. Our deep feelings towards our parents, our family, our friends and our enemies points us in defined paths which we are incapable of changing. Jesus gave us a promise of freedom of being a victim of this history into a world of love, openness and expression as one chooses.

Anyone who does not break at the cross does not know Him. Peter stood as a passenger looking on after he fled Jesus in the garden. He claimed to know so much, and be willing to die for His Lord. But in that testing he failed, and ran away. But he wanted to know what happened, so crept in to look.

Walking with Jesus is about learning from Him and changing how we function and who we are inside. But to give up to Him our control and our sacred positions is the hardest thing we can do. To start again, to become a child, to humble and just sit with Him.
But everyday this miracle is taking place for millions of people. God bless you

 

[JLB]

If we say that God wont save an individual unless that individual accepts Christ or accepts Gods Grace, thats nothing short of promoting salvation by works, or salvation conditioned on what a person does

Again, this is blatantly false.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Whoever believes in Him has everlasting life.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12


lest they should believe and be saved.



You have been warned several times now about promoting this false doctrine.







JLB

 

[Edward]

That action constitutes works !

Do you believe that we should go and preach the gospel to all nations and every creature, like it says in Mark 16:15? Yes or no?

 

[JLB]

Do you believe that we should go and preach the gospel to all nations and every creature, like it says in Mark 16:15? Yes or no?

He is on a 30 day vacation.

He probably won't answer your question ...

 

[GodsGrace]

He is on a 30 day vacation.

He probably won't answer your question ...

If he does, it'll just be because Jesus said to do so.
They don't have a real reason....
No need to preach if God does the choosing.

 

[JLB]

If he does, it'll just be because Jesus said to do so.
They don't have a real reason....
No need to preach if God does the choosing.

Since he believes that people are already saved, before they hear and believe the Gospel… Why preach the Gospel of salvation to those who are already saved?

 

[JLB]

If a person says that they were saved after they obeyed, or after they believed, this person is in essence saying, salvation is of myself, of my work, and whether they admit it or not, they have something to boast of.

If a person says they are saved before they believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then … how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?


This is the Christ-less Gospel.




JLB

 

[PeterJens]

Since he believes that people are already saved, before they hear and believe the Gospel… Why preach the Gospel of salvation to those who are already saved?

The argument that arises is why have saints and sinners at all if there is no choice.
God could play toy soldiers with robots anytime, like we can, but if it is just a reconstruction with a defined outcome and no choice, of what value is this to God or us?

Gravity and orbits of planets round the sun has an interesting problem. It is called the 3 body problem. Basically how 3 bodies interact is unpredictable and random. A small change creates a massive shift in outcome. When we look at existence we think God defines everything in a contained controlled way. If you look at creation God created the starting principles but the outcomes are infinitely complex and beautiful. The Lord pictures himself as a gardener or owner of a field, who sows and harvests. Things are left to develop and grow, with the basic principles of life, as they choose how they express themselves. At the harvest things are sorted out.

Love by its nature is active, alive, positive, looking for opportunity and blessing, solutions, help, involvement, a light on a hill, a demonstration of Gods work in the heart of man.

This approach of being determined, the elect, uninvolved, cut off, seems the autistic version of christian faith which emphasises survival through isolation and control. This is an aspect of our lives and our walk but not everything.
I always rejoice that God chose us as free people who exalt in His love, who we chose to follow and know how good He is. God bless you

 

[DavidT]

Whenever we make anything a must do prior to God saving us, and God saves us because of that we must do ir have done, we automatically forfeit salvation by Grace and come under the opposing view of salvation by works.
If a person says that they were saved after they obeyed, or after they believed, this person is in essence saying, salvation is of myself, of my work, and whether they admit it or not, they have something to boast of. Yet Gods word insists that salvation is the Gift of God, not of man, its not of works lest any man boast Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Those who think repenting and asking forgiveness of future sins is like one trying to 'work' their way into heaven are deluded.

God's Plan of Salvation through His Son works like the family order. What son of a father that repents of their sins and is forgiven can think after being forgiven, they can then go out and do whatever they want the rest of their life and never mess up again?

What complete idiot of a family would think like that? That kind of thinking comes from the lawless, those who want to be their 'own' God, the VERY TEMPTATION SIN that Satan applied upon Adam and Eve!

This is why 1 John 1 is very important for the Christian believer to understand about future sin, that we still need to repent and ask Jesus forgiveness when we mess up after having believed and been baptized. It's about a continual WALK with Christ, not a catch and release program.