Contending for the faith.

[heartwashed]

I noticed that the moderators of these boards want to take the boards in a direction where debate might be discouraged.

My question has to do with a few verses in scripture where it seems to me that we are encouraged to contend for the faith and that when it comes to sound doctrine, debate ought not to be discouraged if it means that we can come to an understanding of what is sound doctrine through the process of debating a subject.

Here are the verses.

1Th 2:2, But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.

Jde 1:3, Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jde 1:4, For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I have been to forums where the moderators happen to be of the sort who "suppress the truth in unrighteousness" (Romans 1:18) by locking godly threads, deleting godly posts, and by banning godly ministers.

It is my prayer that every time a godly thread gets locked, that God will break the finger of the moderator who locked it. That every time a godly post gets deleted, that God will break the hand of the moderator who deleted it. And that every time a godly minister is banned, that God will also break the arm of the moderator who banned that godly minister.

It is also my prayer that conviction of the Holy Ghost will come upon every moderator who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness until that moderator becomes righteous or else the Lord takes them into the next life (where they will be judged). May He seek out their wickedness until He finds none (Psalms 10:15).

And, I have also prayed that every time a godly minister gets banned, that the Lord will replace that minister with five more godly ministers who are of a similar anointing and doctrine; and that He will continue to convict unrighteous moderators so that they would be "kicking against the pricks" (Acts 9:5) to continue to ban the godly ministers that keep showing up.

I am not looking for a fight. I am looking for a pleasant experience at these boards where I will be able to post freely without having my posts deleted or having any kinds of problems with the moderators. For this reason I have chosen to stay away from the Universalism discussion; since there you are looklng for a moderator who is pro-Universalism and I would be posting against the subject and therefore I can predict that some of my posts might be deleted as the result.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Let me ask you, is it a godly pray to ask God to "break off" fingers of the moderators? Do you think there is no justifiably reason to end a thread? I can assure you there are.

You asked about becoming more holy, I think you need to edit that or ask the moderators yourself to enable you to edit your post there. That was not an example of holiness. So you need to report your own post, tell them it is you and ask them to change certain lines and that you were wrong to write that. You want grace to resist sin, this is be a big step.

Now, otherwise I do agree with you that debate or intellectual discussion of texts where two or three do not agree is not encouraged, from what I gather. We are to play nice nice and not disagree. Maybe the mods do not think that is what they are doing in their decisions, but more than one of us are getting that message. In my opinion it is because some of the mods themselves are not trained in how to disagree with respect for the other party and I have not noticed that there is not even a desire to understand the other party, which I personally find a worthy reason to continue a discussion. How does one know one disagrees unless one understands the other side? Understanding the other side is not of value that I can detect but I am not aware of who the mods all are. I only know a handful.

So I agree with your premise but do not think your prayer a godly one at all. Jesus would never have prayed that way and in fact told us to pray FOR and bless those who do wrong. God sends blessed rain on the just and the unjust. He doesn't break off the fingers of the unjust.

 

[heartwashed]

Was the Psalmist being ungodly when he prayed what he prayed in Psalms 10:15?

I included that scripture in my post above. You might have read that scripture and seen that my prayer is justifiable.

Of course if there is a justifiable reason to end a thread or delete a post, more power to the moderator who does it.

I was speakiing primarily of godly posts and godly ministers and godly threads, being locked, deleted, or banned.

Those kinds of things come about by nothing other than "suppressing the truth in unrighteousness" (Romans 1:18)...and the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against such things.

So, if I ask that the Lord chasten / scourge the moderator as a son (Hebrews 12:6) who perpetrates in such a manner, rather than exhibiting wrath (by casting them into the lake of fire and by not disciplining them in this world, thus treating them as a bastard son, Hebrews 12:8); am I not asking for the better result?

If it is a choice between having your arm broken and going to heaven, or keeping your arm intact, and going to hell, which one do you choose?

I have recently broken my arm in an accident, as the result of asking the Lord to "seek out my wickedness until He finds none" (Psalms 10:15). For I desire sanctification.

So I assure you, I have not asked anything for others that I have not also decided to take upon myself.

 

[heartwashed]

It is also true that if I am regarding iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me (Psalms 66:18).

So, if what I am asking is not according to the Lord's will, He certainly does not have to answer according to my prayer.

So, if He actually does it, it is because there is righteousness in it.

 

[heartwashed]

When we speak to each other, it has to be with the primary purpose of building up rather than tearing down.

Jer 1:10, See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.

Sometimes before we can build and plant, we have to effectively root out, pull down, destroy, and throw down.

 

[eddif]

Jer 1:10, See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.

Sometimes before we can build and plant, we have to effectively root out, pull down, destroy, and throw down.

The destruction spoken of right before the 400 years of silence was a long time coming. God was slow to wrath.

Even with the destruction at the time of Ezekiel, lie lake of fire had not arrived. The destruction starting in
Ezekiel’s time was a shadow of ultimate punishment at judgement day.
The tares are bound for destruction, but not burned quite yet. I have a little understanding, but not everything by any means.

We sometimes are in a hurry to punish, but God approaches wrath much slower.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Free]

Was the Psalmist being ungodly when he prayed what he prayed in Psalms 10:15?

I included that scripture in my post above. You might have read that scripture and seen that my prayer is justifiable.

The first question you should ask with that psalm is: who was the psalmist praying against? That tells you whether or not Christians should be praying that type of prayer against fellow believers, or at all.

 

[heartwashed]

The first question you should ask with that psalm is: who was the psalmist praying against? That tells you whether or not Christians should be praying that type of prayer against fellow believers, or at all.

I am not the judge of whether any moderator is or is not a genuine believer.

If they "suppress the truth in unrighteousness" (Romans 1:18), then the wrath of God is revealed against them.

That would indicate unbelief (see 1 Thessalonians 5:9).

However, it is beside the point. For I have prayed the prayer for myself; and I do consider myself to be a believer.

I would rather be chastened by the Lord in this life and have Him remove all my wickedness through discipline and chastening than not be chastened and end up in hell as the result of my day of judgment.

Therefore, I consider that in praying Hebrews 12:6 for moderators, I am asking for the better thing.

 

[Free]

I am not the judge of whether any moderator is or is not a genuine believer.

If they "suppress the truth in unrighteousness" (Romans 1:18), then the wrath of God is revealed against them.

That would indicate unbelief (see 1 Thessalonians 5:9).

However, it is beside the point. For I have prayed the prayer for myself; and I do consider myself to be a believer.

I would rather be chastened by the Lord in this life and have Him remove all my wickedness through discipline and chastening than not be chastened and end up in hell as the result of my day of judgment.

Therefore, I consider that in praying Hebrews 12:6 for moderators, I am asking for the better thing.

Is there an instance in the NT of Jesus or one of the apostles praying for harm to another person, even an unbeliever? If not, the prayer is never for believers to pray against other believers, if at all. We are to love our enemies and do good to all. Prayers for judgement on others should be very few, with none against fellow believers, and specific forms of judgement should not be in a believer's prayers, but rather left to God. God alone is Judge and perfect in his judgements; we need to leave those things up to him.

Besides, to believe that a believer is suppressing the truth in unrighteousness is a judgement that Christians cannot make. That is to judge the motives of the heart, something which we are not supposed to do. Also, it just begs the question as what the truth of a matter is. Just because you may disagree with someone about the truth of a matter, doesn't mean that you are right.

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/should-we-pray-for-god-to-punish-our-enemies

https://tabletalkmagazine.com/article/2019/03/can-pray-non-christians/

 

[heartwashed]

Is there an instance in the NT of Jesus or one of the apostles praying for harm to another person, even an unbeliever? If not, the prayer is never for believers to pray against other believers, if at all. We are to love our enemies and do good to all. Prayers for judgement on others should be very few, with none against fellow believers, and specific forms of judgement should not be in a believer's prayers, but rather left to God. God alone is Judge and perfect in his judgements; we need to leave those things up to him.

Besides, to believe that a believer is suppressing the truth in unrighteousness is a judgement that Christians cannot make. That is to judge the motives of the heart, something which we are not supposed to do. Also, it just begs the question as what the truth of a matter is. Just because you may disagree with someone about the truth of a matter, doesn't mean that you are right.

Sorry, but I believe that the OT is the inspired word of God as well as the new (2 Timmothy 3:16).

And I have already prayed what I have prayed, I am not going to retract my prayer, as if I could even do that.

If the prayer is not righteous, then the Lord won't answer it in the affirmative.

As if I can control the righteous right hand of God.

He does what He wills, I can only ask.

I consider that I am wronged when my posts unjustly get deleted, or when I unjustly get banned from a Christian Message Board. Or, even when a thread that I have started gets locked so that it will eventually be buried.

So, I appeal to the Lord in this verse.

Rom 12:19, Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

As for whether any particular moderator is suppressing the truth in unrighteousness, it is true that God is the judge of who is doing that and who is genuinely trying to moderate their boards in righteousness.

That is why I am not the one who executes the judgment that I have prayed for; rather it is God.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi heartwashed and welcome to CF

That was quite a harsh intro so let me clear things up for you as what CF is all about. First you need to go and read the Community Message as this is the vision for CF as we walk in the Spirit of love for one another respecting each others views, opinions and understanding of scripture even if we disagree with each other at times. You also need to read the Terms of Service that is set up as guidelines in how we are to conduct ourselves as a child of God. There is nothing wrong with healthy debates, but when they turn ugly and cause division among the members then that is when the staff steps in to rectify those who violate the Terms of Service as we try to reconcile with the member in a private PM. You will find that we are different then many other forums and I hope you enjoy yourself here sharing with us as we share with you as we are a very diverse group of people as our common ground is that we love the Lord and want to be pleasing to Him.

God bless

 

[heartwashed]

Hi heartwashed and welcome to CF

That was quite a harsh intro so let me clear things up for you as what CF is all about. First you need to go and read the Community Message as this is the vision for CF as we walk in the Spirit of love for one another respecting each others views, opinions and understanding of scripture even if we disagree with each other at times. You also need to read the Terms of Service that is set up as guidelines in how we are to conduct ourselves as a child of God. There is nothing wrong with healthy debates, but when they turn ugly and cause division among the members then that is when the staff steps in to rectify those who violate the Terms of Service as we try to reconcile with the member in a private PM. You will find that we are different then many other forums and I hope you enjoy yourself here sharing with us as we share with you as we are a very diverse group of people as our common ground is that we love the Lord and want to be pleasing to Him.

God bless

Thanks for_his_glory,

I have been discriminated against in times past, not for getting ugly with people; but because I was preaching the Cross and because there is an offence in the Cross (Galatians 5:11) that got to certain moderators so that they did not want me around any more (back at a different forum where I was actually banned for preaching a major aspect of the gospel).

I think that you will find that I am basically cordial. I try to bear the fruit of the Spirit in all of my dealings with people. And I do believe that there is a kind of offence that, if left unchecked, will place a person in the furnace of fire (Matthew 13:41-42).

However, that offence isn't the offence of the Cross (Galatians 5:11).

And you will find that if there is anything offensive in anything that I might say, that the foundations of what I am saying will be in the Cross of Jesus Christ.

I deliberately seek to be unobnoxious so that the only offence in what I might be saying might be in the offence of the Cross.

I pray that the moderators here may all be righteous, born again believers so that they would not be offended in anything that I might say that has its basis in the Cross.

 

[heartwashed]

Hi for_his_glory,

would you be so kind as to provide a link to both the Community Message and the Terms of Service?

 

[heartwashed]

btw, my prayer stands as my section of the Terms of Servie agreement; enforceable by God.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi for_his_glory,

would you be so kind as to provide a link to both the Community Message and the Terms of Service?

If you go back to the home page where all the different forums are listed you will see at the top of the page the Community message, Terms of Service and the Statement of faith.

No one is allowed to be a staff member if they are not Spiritually born again from above and indwelled with the Holy Spirit and they also need to be of good character. The staff is not above any member and if you see a staff member getting out of line please report them in Talk With the Staff and give which forum, title of thread and post number so we can go see what has been said. I think you will find us different from other Christian forums as I have been on a few other ones that were pretty bad before finding this one.

 

[for_his_glory]

btw, my prayer stands as my section of the Terms of Servie agreement; enforceable by God.

When you read through the terms of service you will see that that each one lines up with scripture and we handle any violations in a Godly manner.

 

[heartwashed]

If you go back to the home page where all the different forums are listed you will see at the top of the page the Community message, Terms of Service and the Statement of faith.

No one is allowed to be a staff member if they are not Spiritually born again from above and indwelled with the Holy Spirit and they also need to be of good character. The staff is not above any member and if you see a staff member getting out of line please report them in Talk With the Staff and give which forum, title of thread and post number so we can go see what has been said. I think you will find us different from other Christian forums as I have been on a few other ones that were pretty bad before finding this one.

I'm glad to hear that.

I have to admit that I came into this forum with my fists up; not looking for a fight but ready for one in the case that I should find what I have normally found at many Christian Message Boards.

 

[heartwashed]

When you read through the terms of service you will see that that each one lines up with scripture and we handle any violations in a Godly manner.

You are accountable to God because of my prayer.

If what you say is true, then you have nothing to fear.

I do believe that Psalms 10:15 is a righteous prayer as concerning those who are identified in Romans 1:18.

If the staff at these boards is not defined by the latter verse, then I believe that they will find that there are no repercussions for any moderator actions that they may take.

My only goal in all of these posts is that moderators would be sensitive to the Holy Spirit any time they take a moderator action.

If they can do that, there is no need to fear the chastening of the Lord.

While a fear of such chastening may indeed motivate some to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit.

 

[for_his_glory]

You are accountable to God because of my prayer.

If what you say is true, then you have nothing to fear.

I do believe that Psalms 10:15 is a righteous prayer as concerning those who are identified in Romans 1:18.

If the staff at these boards is not defined by the latter verse, then I believe that they will find that there are no repercussions for any moderator actions that they may take.

My only goal in all of these posts is that moderators would be sensitive to the Holy Spirit any time they take a moderator action.

If they can do that, there is no need to fear the chastening of the Lord.

While a fear of such chastening may indeed motivate some to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit.

I'm sorry you have been hurt by those in the other forums and you are bringing that hurt into this one expecting the same thing as your prayers have nothing to do with anyone being accountable to God as everyone knows that they will be accountable to God for bad behavior. What you are doing is praying judgement against those who did you wrong by using scripture out of context of the full intent of what has been written by asking God to break our arms and fingers for unrighteous acts made against you. You need to love and pray for those who come against you and let God be the judge and jury and if you have any problems with the staff or any other member you can report them so it can properly be dealt with. You need to have peace in your heart and not be so vengeful as vengeance belongs to the Lord.

You will find that CF is dedicated to God for His purpose of ministering to others as we all are to walk in the Spirit no longer being of the old man, but of the new Spiritual man/woman of God with integrity being His servants here on earth. You don't even know us yet, but already judging us. There are times when some do not get along with others especially in doctrinal disagreements, but yet we are never to tell others "I am right and you are wrong", but to discuss the differences by using scripture, but never forcing our beliefs on others. If you can follow the Community message and the Terms of Service you will do well in here as you share with us.

BTW
Psa 10:1-18 is about those who are wicked that are not of God's own.

Rom 1:18-32 is about God's wrath on those who are unrighteous as they are not of God's own.

 

[heartwashed]

Romans 1:18 speaks indeed of those who are not God's own; nevertheless it is also true that God has made known to them His eternal power and Godhead so that they are without excuse. Because they know of His eternal power and Godhead, they may even believe themselves to be His own; but their actions speak louder than their faith; and because they suppress the truth in unrighteousness the wrath of God is revealed against them.

As I have said, I am happy to hear that these boards are not like other boards that I have been to. I hope that this is a true report.

Psalms 10:15 can be referring to even God's own; for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. And I believe that in saying what you have said about this, you have judged me as not being of God's own; since I also prayed Psalms 10:15 concerning myself and God also answered by breaking my arm. Yet I know myself to be a believer in Christ.

And it is true that everyone will be accountable to God for bad behaviour. My prayer for the moderators of these boards is that God will receive them as sons (Hebrews 12:6) rather than as illegitimate (Hebrews 12:8).

In doing so, the Lord will chasten and discipline His sons in this life rather than leaving off discipline and waiting until the day of judgment to punish those who are wicked.

I do believe and know that because of my prayer, the moderators of these boards are getting a better deal. I have prayed what I have prayed according to the love of the Lord, as a matter of fact.

And no, I have not taken any scripture out of context.

That is the cry of those who do not want to believe what the scripture says and who want any excuse to reject the testimony of what scripture says.

You say that I don't even know you yet, but am already judging you.

Here is a statement from holy scripture:

Jhn 2:24, But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
Jhn 2:25, And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

I don't need to know you in order to be able to understand that you are sinners apart from a miraculous work of grace accomplished in your hearts by the Holy Spirit. That is the nature of humankind.

It is also the nature of humankind to want to believe that I am saved even when I am not; and to also argue that I am saved even when there is evidence to the contrary. And by saved I mean regenerated and renewed so that my heart is changed from being deceitful above all things and desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9), to being an honest and good heart (Luke 8:15).

Most who have the former kind of heart will argue to the bone that they have been saved; however the scripture is clear that by their fruits you shall know them and therefore, I allude to the fact that when Jesus healed the leprous man, He told him to tell no one that he had been utterly cleansed but to go and shew himself to the priests and offer the sacrifice for the cleansing of leprosy as a testimony to them. "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8)

I believe that I can follow the rules of the terms of service.

If you, as moderators, can refrain from locking godly threads, deleting godly posts (that contain sound scriptural teaching), and banning godly ministers, you will do well with the Lord; and will find that your bones remain intact except the Lord break your bones for reasons other than the "infractions" that I am speaking about; in the case that you might ask Him to seek out your wickedness until He finds none and He sees some other wickedness in you than what I have been speaking of.

All that I, and the Lord, am asking, is that you be sensitive to the Holy Spirit when you take action as moderators. If you do that, then all your moderator actions will be righteous and you will not have to fear the chastening of the Lord. There is nothing wrong with deleting ungodly posts, locking ungodly threads, or banning ungodly posters and you will not face any kind of judgment for doing so.