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COVID Cases Among People Already Vaccinated

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Oct 20, 2016
You made the claim, it is your responsibility to support it.

Surely you can understand that if you cannot produce credible support for your own claim, it looks a tad suspicious.
Well it's easy for you to show "validation" because you've got the entire government/corporate propaganda machine readily available and eager to push your vaccine cure-all narrative. I have to go find each doctor individually from different timelines in different countries scattered about. No telling how many stories contradicting the approved narrative are deleted/covered up.
My point is there is no silver bullet. Vaccines, preventative meds, supplements, proper PPE, social distancing, hygiene, DNA, overall health all combine to play a role in controlling this virus. There are just too many variables to push just one aspect as the CURE.
 

Drew

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Let's talk about HCQ and the matter of supporting claims with evidence. Here is but one finding:

So far, almost all the data on the drug’s safety and efficacy come from studies that tested hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for COVID-19. The latest of these is a global observational study in The Lancet that reportedly looked at 96,000 people with COVID-19. It reported that the drug offered no treatment benefit, and that people who took it were more likely to die than those who didn’t
 
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Let's talk about HCQ and the matter of supporting claims with evidence. Here is but one finding:

So far, almost all the data on the drug’s safety and efficacy come from studies that tested hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for COVID-19. The latest of these is a global observational study in The Lancet that reportedly looked at 96,000 people with COVID-19. It reported that the drug offered no treatment benefit, and that people who took it were more likely to die than those who didn’t
You are intelligent. Therefore you know full well the "studies" shown were biased. Brazil conducted a study so corrupted, it was criminal. They administered 3 times the recommended dose. Of course it proved counter effective. Other studies were given way too late for efficacy to even be relevant. Trump said he warded off COVID with HCQ and even when he actually caught it he took it as part of his treatment. HCQ got a bum rap for political reasons.
 

Drew

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You are intelligent. Therefore you know full well the "studies" shown were biased.Brazil conducted a study so corrupted, it was criminal. They administered 3 times the recommended dose. Of course it proved counter effective. Other studies were given way too late for efficacy to even be relevant. Trump said he warded off COVID with HCQ and even when he actually caught it he took it as part of his treatment. HCQ got a bum rap for political reasons.
How do you know there was bias? Again, do you have any credible source to support your claims?
 

WIP

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I am quite sure no doctor would say this. Or only a tiny, tiny fraction. It may indeed be true that getting covid is as good as the vaccine in terms of conferring future immunity. But that is clearly not the point - it is, obviously, far better to get immune via vaccine and not via covid - the latter can and does kill, the former only very, very rarely.
Actually, except for those 65+, especially those who have other medical conditions like chronic lung diseases, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, obesity, etc., the risk of death from Covid is quite low.
 

Drew

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Actually, except for those 65+, especially those who have other medical conditions like chronic lung diseases, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, obesity, etc., the risk of death from Covid is quite low.
Let's say you are right. Are you implying that these lower risk people should not be vaccinated? And, in North America, at least, the obese are a large (no pun intended) demographic.
 

kiwidan

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Hi, let me try to explain.

What I am saying is that the people who get the vaccine will not be guaranteed 100% protection - even though they are vaccinated, there is still a risk they will catch Covid and possibly get sick and even die. Now the vaccines are, it seems, quite effective, but this risk is not miniscule by any means. For example, I have received one shot of Pfizer. Apparently, this reduces my risk of catching covid by about 60%, not 100%.

Now let's talk about the people who do not get vaccinated. They have no protection at all and are at greatly elevated risk, as compared to people who are vaccinated, of catching covid and passing it to others, including those who have been vaccinated.

My argument, therefore, is that it is indeed "my business" when other people refuse to be vaccinated. Now let me be clear: I am not suggesting that the tiny fraction of people who have a history of severe allergic reaction to vaccines should get the vaccine - far from it.

But, frankly, from an ethical / Christian perspective I see no justification for doing anything other than getting vaccinated as soon as possible.

I will probably get a vacinne at some stage when im ready.

And when i said protected as you said, as far as im aware will not be guarenteed 100% protection. I would like to acturally know more about it and how it works and what it does and so on.

Anyhow, i hope your having a good day.
 
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WIP

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Let's say you are right. Are you implying that these lower risk people should not be vaccinated? And, in North America, at least, the obese are a large (no pun intended) demographic.
I'm not against anyone getting vaccinated. What I do not agree with is forced compliance. I also don't agree with people implying that those who choose not to get vaccinated are uncaring. That is hogwash.
 

Drew

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I'm not against anyone getting vaccinated. What I do not agree with is forced compliance. I also don't agree with people implying that those who choose not to get vaccinated are uncaring. That is hogwash.
I am sorry but refusing to vaccinated can be easily shown to be an "uncaring" act (except for those with vaccine allergy and those who agree to withdraw from society):

- Covid is dangerous (FACT)
- Covid is highly contagious (FACT)
- There is a vaccine that, according to latest evidence, does suppress transmission (FACT)
- The risks associated with the vaccine are minimal (FACT).
- To care for other others entails acting in a manner that promotes their well-being (will you deny this?)

How is not basically an inescapable conclusion that refusing the vaccine is uncaring?
 

WIP

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I am sorry but refusing to vaccinated can be easily shown to be an "uncaring" act (except for those with vaccine allergy and those who agree to withdraw from society):

- Covid is dangerous (FACT)
- Covid is highly contagious (FACT)
- There is a vaccine that, according to latest evidence, does suppress transmission (FACT)
- The risks associated with the vaccine are minimal (FACT).
- To care for other others entails acting in a manner that promotes their well-being (will you deny this?)

How is not basically an inescapable conclusion that refusing the vaccine is uncaring?
Fact - I can protect others with 100% certainty by proper social distancing and with zero risk for me as well.
 

kiwidan

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I am sorry but refusing to vaccinated can be easily shown to be an "uncaring" act (except for those with vaccine allergy and those who agree to withdraw from society):

When someone coughs or sneezes and they cover it, and are being hygeinic using good practice like washing hands regular like after bathroom, before making or eating food, and so on, and giving others there space if possible, i would think that is being respectful to yourself and others.

Its always been a general hygeine practice to cover caughs and sneezes and wash hands regular and so on. In general i have always social distanced the best i can from people i dont know anyhow, if there is a bench with one person on it i have always sit the otherside and give them there space i never sit right next to them when there is space. Same with fishing at the dock i never fish in someone elses space. Shopping i dont get in other peoples ways and if im in line i have never stand right close behind them. I have always given people there space as i also like a bit of space.
 
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Drew

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Fact - I can protect others with 100% certainty by proper social distancing and with zero risk for me a

Fact - I can protect others with 100% certainty by proper social distancing and with zero risk for me as well.
Really?

No human contact?
No grocery store?
No pharmacy?
No dentist visits?
No doctor visits?

Remember, the 6 foot rule has been found unreliable:

Staying 6 feet apart indoors isn't enough to stop the spread of COVID-19, MIT study finds; The risk of exposure from an infected person is similar at 6 feet and 60 feet, one researcher said.
 

Drew

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When someone coughs or sneezes and they cover it, and are being hygeinic using good practice like washing hands regular like after bathroom, before making or eating food, and so on, and giving others there space if possible, i would think that is being respectful to yourself and others.

Its always been a general hygeine practice to cover caughs and sneezes and wash hands regular and so on. In general i have always social distanced the best i can from people i dont know anyhow, if there is a bench with one person on it i have always sit the otherside and give them there space i never sit right next to them when there is space. Same with fishing at the dock i never fish in someone elses space. Shopping i dont get in other peoples ways and if im in line i have never stand right close behind them. I have always given people there space as i also like a bit of space.
All good but, frankly, not good enough - the evidence mounts that this is an extremely contagious disease and mere breathing is enough to transmit it.
 

jasonc

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does having a hepatitis a and b shot exempt me from concern over cleaning my hands and or also toilet .

no ,get this vaccine and you don't have to wear a mask .yet that is exactly fauci said and yes ,wearing a mask in a dentist as a patient ,pointless,once you remove it from your face and that dentist wearing his is at risk as its six feet with mask taint enough.a cleaning takes 45 minutes ,never mind other things.

I can grab food from any store using shipt,Wal-Mart dellivers,grub hub and chow cab deliver food ordered .

gas?I don't have to go inside ,I can buy snacks and convience in many places via drive thru ,to include alcohol.

nothing new ,just acelarated by covid

of course ,the restrictions with medicinal facilities exist ,ie nursing homes and hospitals where its best needed
 
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jasonc

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my wife and vet friends get telemedicine visits .

you do know that doctors were doing this and while I'm not fond of it ,its been a push for a while before covid.

I can't afford to keep my wife noinimal healthy and see doctors myself . that is another thread .the va doesn't accept patients in person as much as possible .

not saying I agree but people do not have doctors ,I didn't in my 20s after the army unless I was sick,I'm,a bit older and that's different .most visits are simple adjust meds or refill once they know your case .they adjust your med's based on zoom meetings .unless its a test it surgery ,they don't do it in person
 

PeterJens

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does this argument deny,the moral right the federal govt ought to pay claims on forced acommodoations where your health was compromised?
in my case burn pits.the agent Orange and gulf war syndrome comes to mind.we have paid families of those killed accidentally to Muslims parents overseas .yet deny that to our vets!

I could go into that fauci mentioned a booster

fact most people over 20 that hasn't served or have a booster shot are no longer immune to mmr,yellow fever ,scarlet fever ,typhoid tetanus .

so while I agree that one can make a case for the vaccine ,how ever I won't blame persons like me who despite the assurance have seen those with counterindications,I have had them myself to the tetanus shot . this vaccine is very new ,to assume that the scientist is God and knows it all as far as its contraindications is a bit much ,they didn't foresee the clots despite how few they had them .a 1 percent chance of death is too high if you are that one percent . I take risks myself ,its probably I will die or have issues from high blood pressure over covid as it runs in my,genes .my brother ,sister ,mom.uncles and great aunt ,grandpa had high blood pressure ,not a diet cause but genetics .my mom is underweight .

therefore understand my hesitation isn't on fear ,or paranoia but one of its too new .

if herd immunity was achieved at 5 percent with mmr,surely it would be covid.yet with Mmr its not the case .most adults have lost their immunity to that unless given a tetanus shot or served and that lasts only 10 years
I agree with you that these vaccines if produced and created in the old ways, it would not be safe.
Using viruses, or RNA to create immunity by only holding a protein which the immune system recognises, and so will destroy the real virus, is a new approach, quick to develop and implement.

One of the problems of modern bio medicine is it creates the same benefits but at much lower cost and impact but carries the same name and caution brought from decades of previous vaccines etc.

So mmr, tetanus, yellow fever, scarlet fever etc are different approaches to the covid 19 vaccine. I have a degree in biological sciences so I understand the basic ideas and approaches. What is difficult to convey is the level of advances this represents. Just the idea you can choose to insert genetic code into cells is now possible, but not with this vaccine, is stunning, yet the technology is so simple it can be done at home.

The other problem our generation has is we grew up when the world population was half the size, and isolation between countries was possible. We are now a global community with millions of people each year going all over the world. This means the rate of transmission is vastly more rapid, and the need to quick responses never more pressing. Fortunately science is keeping up, and the covid 19 vaccine has rolled out like clock work.

I truly am amazed at the community and commercial commitment to this endeavour, equivalent to fighting a war.
What we are now seeing in India, is what happens with no control and no vaccine. It is so sad.

God bless you
 
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