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COVID Cases Among People Already Vaccinated

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Large percentages of police, servicemen, teachers, healthcare workers, firefighters are refusing the vaccine. This is indicative of the feelings/intentions of the populace at large. Times have changed as to government/corporate/military personel blindly following orders. The trust in our institutions has been vastly eroded. Trump's "experimental treatment" was hydroxychloroquine by his own admission. The Fauci led medical establishment denied hydroxychloroquine to the masses. Hcq was widely used in India and that was why the virus was kept at bay there for so long. India tired of the virus restrictions and let their guard down. HCQ works great as a preventative/mild case remedy. It offers not immunity though and must be taken constantly until the virus is extinguished. Failure to remain vigilant cost India dearly.
It is a big claim to say hydroxychloroquine has any benefits. The studies with controls showed it was useless.
This is why science and controlled trials matter, because they establish truth as opposed to guess work and assumptions.

With a disease that makes 3% ill, one can claim any cure works, 97% of the time and appear to be correct. Snake oil salesmen have been doing this with slow acting illnesses forever, but should have no place with those who desire to find the truth.

The problems we face is truth is only defined by linear experiments and logic, which means we have to trust the experts and their experiments that have confirmed truth from fiction. Once you throw this out of the window, any claim made by anyone is true, which literally leads to death. One could define this as the foundation of sinful behaviour, disregarding proper advice and just guessing. In the modern world where we know so much, it is simply foolish to ignore the facts.

God bless you
 
I agree with you that these vaccines if produced and created in the old ways, it would not be safe.
Using viruses, or RNA to create immunity by only holding a protein which the immune system recognises, and so will destroy the real virus, is a new approach, quick to develop and implement.

One of the problems of modern bio medicine is it creates the same benefits but at much lower cost and impact but carries the same name and caution brought from decades of previous vaccines etc.

So mmr, tetanus, yellow fever, scarlet fever etc are different approaches to the covid 19 vaccine. I have a degree in biological sciences so I understand the basic ideas and approaches. What is difficult to convey is the level of advances this represents. Just the idea you can choose to insert genetic code into cells is now possible, but not with this vaccine, is stunning, yet the technology is so simple it can be done at home.

The other problem our generation has is we grew up when the world population was half the size, and isolation between countries was possible. We are now a global community with millions of people each year going all over the world. This means the rate of transmission is vastly more rapid, and the need to quick responses never more pressing. Fortunately science is keeping up, and the covid 19 vaccine has rolled out like clock work.

I truly am amazed at the community and commercial commitment to this endeavour, equivalent to fighting a war.
What we are now seeing in India, is what happens with no control and no vaccine. It is so sad.

God bless you
I,understand that our world changes but vaccines are sold as safe,just because I get the yellow fever shot doesn't logically make sound to ignore mosquito born virus control measure or that well vaccinated against the yellow fever and all manner of pathogens .my county is the pioneer of mosquito control ,I lI've near the state lab where they raise mosquitoes to study how they spread vectors and also which. measures work .

yet we say you can ignore social distancing and mask wearing if you have a vaccine .40 percent chance with it says other wise yet which is it ?

I get the push to feel safe with it ,but really any old floridIan who remembers malaria and mosquito born illness outbreak will say life isn't safe .
 
I am sorry but refusing to vaccinated can be easily shown to be an "uncaring" act (except for those with vaccine allergy and those who agree to withdraw from society):

- Covid is dangerous (FACT)
- Covid is highly contagious (FACT)
- There is a vaccine that, according to latest evidence, does suppress transmission (FACT)
- The risks associated with the vaccine are minimal (FACT).
- To care for other others entails acting in a manner that promotes their well-being (will you deny this?)

How is not basically an inescapable conclusion that refusing the vaccine is uncaring?
When the "facts" keep shifting, you believe them not me.
 
It is a big claim to say hydroxychloroquine has any benefits. The studies with controls showed it was useless.
This is why science and controlled trials matter, because they establish truth as opposed to guess work and assumptions.

With a disease that makes 3% ill, one can claim any cure works, 97% of the time and appear to be correct. Snake oil salesmen have been doing this with slow acting illnesses forever, but should have no place with those who desire to find the truth.

The problems we face is truth is only defined by linear experiments and logic, which means we have to trust the experts and their experiments that have confirmed truth from fiction. Once you throw this out of the window, any claim made by anyone is true, which literally leads to death. One could define this as the foundation of sinful behaviour, disregarding proper advice and just guessing. In the modern world where we know so much, it is simply foolish to ignore the facts.

God bless you
Fortunately there is still a very large portion of the population who think for themselves despite the elitist corporate propaganda machine. Try explaining why so many right there in the medical community, police, fire departments, military refuse the vaccine? We're all just idiots?
 
Fortunately there is still a very large portion of the population who think for themselves despite the elitist corporate propaganda machine. Try explaining why so many right there in the medical community, police, fire departments, military refuse the vaccine? We're all just idiots?
not that I fully,agree with you but many who aren't ordered in the military haven't and also the anthrax ,bad water on many military bases ,is probably why.
I get the reluctance as they seem to say this is the way,no,that's wromg.I get the science but often they rushed so fast and ignore that the other health issues,ie cancer screening canceled ,my wife would be dead from her ovarian cancer ,her surgeon said it was close to metazation ,and its untreatable in that state .

it doesn't help with the media spreading fear and even my pastors wife a er pa says the media doesn't understand virus ,the simple flue,common cold has killed some patients .

we lost a dear lady to the influenza ,she was 91 and had hip surgery and died in recovery from catching the flu.
 
When the "facts" keep shifting, you believe them not me.
What facts are shifting? Please be specific. And what, exactly, are you saying here? If you are going to argue that the message we hear from the health authorities has changed, well that makes perfect sense for a new virus.
 

why should they ,and yes around the cape Canaveral area ,which is close and I might have drank that water .
I also. have been. told my former armory was risky for radiation poision.acceptable for the army but not civilians ,and they wonder why the military won't get shots
 
Fortunately there is still a very large portion of the population who think for themselves despite the elitist corporate propaganda machine. Try explaining why so many right there in the medical community, police, fire departments, military refuse the vaccine? We're all just idiots?
Well.......

What reason - what actual reason - is there for refusing the vaccine?

Your have few options to choose from, each clearly not tenable:

- you can point to side-effects. But this is untenable since expert consensus is overwhelming - the risks of Covid are much higher.

- you can make vague, speculative claims about how the vaccine approval mechanism is not working properly. But you will produce no evidence for this since, in any reasonable sense, the process worked just fine.

- you can, as you appear to be doing, imagine that there are sinister forces at work to deceive you. Well, anyone can imagine such things. But, again, there is simply no evidence for this.
 
not that I fully,agree with you but many who aren't ordered in the military haven't and also the anthrax ,bad water on many military bases ,is probably why.
I get the reluctance as they seem to say this is the way,no,that's wromg.I get the science but often they rushed so fast and ignore that the other health issues,ie cancer screening canceled ,my wife would be dead from her ovarian cancer ,her surgeon said it was close to metazation ,and its untreatable in that state .

it doesn't help with the media spreading fear and even my pastors wife a er pa says the media doesn't understand virus ,the simple flue,common cold has killed some patients .

we lost a dear lady to the influenza ,she was 91 and had hip surgery and died in recovery from catching the flu.
Did your wife use talc?
 
my wife has a. family history of ovarian cancer ,the way it was called was a shoulder surgery pre op
 
I,understand that our world changes but vaccines are sold as safe,just because I get the yellow fever shot doesn't logically make sound to ignore mosquito born virus control measure or that well vaccinated against the yellow fever and all manner of pathogens .my county is the pioneer of mosquito control ,I lI've near the state lab where they raise mosquitoes to study how they spread vectors and also which. measures work .

yet we say you can ignore social distancing and mask wearing if you have a vaccine .40 percent chance with it says other wise yet which is it ?

I get the push to feel safe with it ,but really any old floridIan who remembers malaria and mosquito born illness outbreak will say life isn't safe .
Disease differs radically so one cannot compare vaccines and approaches etc.
Malaria is passed on by female mosquitos at night, while other diseases are passed on during the day, and so nets etc do not work.

Covid has new affects, like blood clotting, which changes the lives of those who are affected permanently. Long covid affects 1 in 5 covid patients or in that order. We know of two people with this, and it is destroys their life and functioning. Of all the vaccinations that have taken place I know of no adverse reactions.

So on a simple mathematical scale, I am less risk from the vaccine than from covid.

The real issue in our culture is the reality that when we trust experts, they can get it wrong. We now know the real statistics, and our trust can be miss-placed. Two positions are simple, no trust or 100% trust. The middle position of understanding the disease, the medications and the possible outcomes is much harder, but with the internet and better education and scientific published results, this is where we are. As a scientist I am happy in this situation, but for those who have no background or interest and just want a black and white solution, this type of world is very scary.

I hope this encourages others to find out more, to learn how and who to trust, and to listen with an open heart.
God bless you
 
Here is why it is reasonable, and indeed morally necessary, for us to encourage everyone to get a vaccine:

- the vaccine is not 100% effective - those who refuse vaccination are needlessly putting the rest of us at risk.
- even if the vaccine were 100% effective, those who refuse it will needlessly strain an already overburdened health care system.
Hi Drew, it’s good to see you again!
I’m not sure how well Canada is dealing with this pandemic, but in America I think education is where we are lacking.

Covid is treatable and nobody in America needs to die from it, regardless if your vaccinated or not. Covid is not a death sentence if treated properly.

Covid has been around long enough that we understand it’s symptoms and patterns. If we educate the population then early treatment can be given eliminating extensive stays in the hospital or death.

For those that choose not to receive the vaccine, they do take the higher risk of getting sick and spreading Covid. We know that the majority of people who get Covid recover within a week. It’s those that don’t recover after 5 days that without question, will go to the hospital or eventually die in their home. Those who wait to go to the hospital beyond day 7 will have lifelong effects from Covid and those that wait beyond day 8 risk dying.

Early treatment (day 5) is expensive, but will keep your health in tact. Any treatment one survives if they wait till after day 7 will be even more expensive. If they would rather go this route than get a vaccine, then so be it. I’ve heard we will be dealing with Covid between 3 and 5 years so we’ve only got another 2-4 years to go. How one makes it through the next few years is on them. Personally, I made the choice to vaccinate. But I can’t force or guilt anyone around me to do the same.
 
Fortunately there is still a very large portion of the population who think for themselves despite the elitist corporate propaganda machine. Try explaining why so many right there in the medical community, police, fire departments, military refuse the vaccine? We're all just idiots?
Human nature. Studies have been done which show group behaviour and group agreement often drives people, not individual understanding. So if a group is the status quo, anything that asks them to change or move will be resisted. It is what gives our communities and culture coherence, and is a good thing.

It is why when ones kids come back from school with a simplistic idealistic view of the world and tells you are parents you are wrong because so and so said x. And as a parent you say ok, and wait until opportunity comes so put things in a different context or for life lessons to kick in to bring other perspectives to bare.

I personally desire to get alongside people and see through their eyes. Most often I find there are good reasons they behaviour and follow things the way they do. Often my position comes from other perspectives and experiences which cannot be easily translated or gone through. It is why these issues take time and patience.

Take a drug like Thalidomide. Doctors said it was safe, prescribed it to pregnant women, who gave birth to kids with no arms and legs. If you have seen this, you know "doctors" sometimes get things wrong, and the benefits can be rushed into before the consequences are truly understood.

What helps me is simply information through youtube, both for and against the vaccine, which answer the questions and issues. I know a scientist like an engineer will tell you of all the risks, which may actually be so small, it will not change what I do, but will write reams of lines about it. Others write things, which will 75% affect me, so I need to read it and take action. Both of these situations have happened.

I take a view with doctors etc. I ask them to explain their logic and knowledge of a situation, not to take away their power, but so I can inform information that might be helpful. My mother for instance, who is 95, is hopeless in saying she is in pain, when asked, but will grimace in pain while saying nothing is a problem. What she actually means is she is coping and go away. Doctors took her lack of cooperation as rebellion and not something that simply needed pain relief, and then she would be fine. I had to argue this case, because otherwise she was not leaving hospital.

So none of this is easy, and no one is an idiot. To an extent RNA vaccines or using a virus to create immunity scares me, until I understood the logic and biological processes behind it. If I had not gone his far I would probably have steered clear of the vaccine.
 
ovid has new affects, like blood clotting, which changes the lives of those who are affected permanently.
My good friend works at at hospital and he says they have an entire floor dedicated to amputees due to Covid.
He says the best two things anyone with Covid can do is plain aspirin ( not Tylenol etc) and vitiman D.
 
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