Cyberseeker
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Daniels 70 weeks made Simple
- Thread starter Cyberseeker
- Start date
24 "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy. 25 "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times.
26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Two events are named in verse 26, that occur after the 69th week.
- Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; 33 AD
- And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. 70 AD
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."
The 70th week is shown to begin after the city and sanctuary are destroyed, yet we see "Temple" language being used in verse 27 describing the 70th week.
JLB
Sinthesis
Member
Yes! This is exactly what I have worked out as well.
Cyberseeker
Member
Takes a bit of nutting out doesn't it?
This prophecy must be the most deliberately obfuscated part of the entire Bible.
- The Jews deliberately muddled it because they didn't like who it counted to.
- Atheists late-date Daniels book because they disbelieve in predictive prophecy.
- Dispensationalists muddle it in order to create their 7-year myth in the last days.
- Preterists sneak a little gap to AD70 where they plonk 3.5 years outside of the 70 wks.
- 7th-day Adventists muddle it because their prophetess made a date mistake.
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Takes a bit of nutting out doesn't it?
This prophecy must be the most deliberately obfuscated part of the entire Bible.
Even modern Bible translators have not been entirely honest when dealing with this text. The 'New Living Translation' (good in other areas) twists it to reflect the disp. story of antichrist.
- The Jews deliberately muddled it because they didn't like who it counted to.
- Atheists late-date Daniels book because they disbelieve in predictive prophecy.
- Dispensationalists muddle it in order to create their 7-year myth in the last days.
- Preterists sneak a little gap to AD70 where they plonk 3.5 years outside of the 70 wks.
- 7th-day Adventists muddle it because their prophetess made a date mistake.
25 "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times. Daniel 9:25
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate." Daniel 9:27
I don't find where you have addressed any of these separate time frames as they are laid out in this prophecy.
If the prophecy has then separated into 7 weeks, 62 weeks, and the 70th week, then why don't you.
- Time line enthusiasts have muddled it because they dont understand the the time periods that are seperated in the prophecy; they disregard this glaringly obvious fact and just proceed with "their chart". Furthermore they don't have the right king who gave the decree to start the prophetic clock ticking because that right king who gave the command To restore and build Jerusalem, doesn't fit their "time-line chart".
1 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and also put it in writing, saying, 2 Thus says Cyrus king of Persia: All the kingdoms of the earth the Lord God of heaven has given me. And He has commanded me to build Him a house at Jerusalem which is in Judah. Ezra 1:1-2
and again -
1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the lineage of the Medes, who was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans-- 2 in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, understood by the books the number of the years specified by the word of the Lord through Jeremiah the prophet, that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem. Daniel 9:1-2
JLB
Deborah13
Member
That's how I see it.
How about that little phrase Messiah the Prince?
When was that?
I see that has a "place" in the time, and a nice little dove with it.
When did that Messiah the Prince that ended the 69th week take place?
JLB
Deborah13
Member
How about that little phrase Messiah the Prince?
When was that?
I see that has a "place" in the time, and a nice little dove with it.
When did that Messiah the Prince that ended the 69th week take place?
JLB
The Messiah died in the middle of the 70th week.
I'm not sure what you are asking me. The timeline is very clear.
MOM !!!! He keeps poking me!
Cyberseeker
Member
Deborah13 said:MOM !!!! He keeps poking me!
lol, leave the little bird alone!
Cyberseeker
Member
JLB said:
Because an overly-detailed diagram would fall off the edge of the page. But would you like to know when each division takes place?
Perhaps you don't realise that decree given by Cyrus was the same decree as that given by Darius and Artaxerxes?JLB said:
The decree by Cyrus was the command to restore and build.
The predecessors stopped the work and caused it to resume.
The initial command to restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, came from Cyrus, yet your chart does not reflect this.
JLB
Cyberseeker
Member
Cyrus issued his decree in 538 BC. Yes, his decree fits the description but our problem is that when we add 483 years to 538 BC, we arrive at a year of no particular significance. Did an anointed prince appear in 55 BC? No, nothing of interest happened at all.
My chart counts precisely 69 weeks from Artaxerxes decree to the manifestation of Christ in AD26/27. 483 years exactly!
My chart counts precisely 69 weeks from Artaxerxes decree to the manifestation of Christ in AD26/27. 483 years exactly!
Sinthesis
Member
Takes a bit of nutting out doesn't it?
This prophecy must be the most deliberately obfuscated part of the entire Bible.
Even modern Bible translators have not been entirely honest when dealing with this text. The 'New Living Translation' (good in other areas) twists it to reflect the disp. story of antichrist.
- The Jews deliberately muddled it because they didn't like who it counted to.
- Atheists late-date Daniels book because they disbelieve in predictive prophecy.
- Dispensationalists muddle it in order to create their 7-year myth in the last days.
- Preterists sneak a little gap to AD70 where they plonk 3.5 years outside of the 70 wks.
- 7th-day Adventists muddle it because their prophetess made a date mistake.
I choose not to assign motives for why people believe what they choose to believe. I just accept that people will believe what they want to believe, and it is the task of those who know differently to show why their perception results in a better understanding of the Gospel. One of the ramifications of the above outline is that Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday. That may be a difficult pill to swallow for some, but it interlocks with other prophecy perfectly.
Why are we assigning dates to scripture when the scripture does not.
Please show the scripture where Cyrus made his decree in 538 BC.
17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations. Matthew 1:17
[14 generations] 560 years - 70 years of captivity = 490 years.
This should be the foundation of your chart.
Also, your chart does not reflect the time period of the work stopping and starting again, as the 7 weeks and 62 weeks are broken up into two distinct time periods in the structure of this prophecy.
JLB
Cyberseeker
Member
JLB said:
So this year is not 2014 AD because the Bible doesn't say?
Sorry J, but Cyrus made his decree in 538 BC. The calendar said so.
Deborah13
Member
I also believe he died on a Wed.. I agree with chart except for this which I wasn't going to point out but....
According to the link that I have used in the past Passover didn't fall on a Wed. in AD30, but it did in AD31.
http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/Passover_dates.htm
So for me it's a matter of working backwards from the date that we know of what year that Passover fell on a Wed.
A Wed. is the only way it works out for 3days and 3 nights.
Sinthesis
Member
It is confusing because of the way Jewish days start at sundown. Jesus died on Wednesday afternoon, and Passover was Thursday (but beginning at dusk on Wednesday).
Sinthesis
Member
To scripturally prove within this context that 14 generations does not equal 560 literal years is easy:
From Abraham to David are fourteen generations - Mat 1:17
Abraham died at 175yrs old - Gen 25:7
Abraham had Isaac at 100yrs old - Gen 21:5
Isaac had Jacob at 60yrs old - Gen 25:26
Jacob entered Egypt at 130yrs old - Gen 47:9
Therefore, Jacob entered Egypt 115yrs after Abraham died
Therefore, Jacob entered Egypt 290yrs after Abraham was born
Jacob/Israel was in Egypt 430yrs - Exd 12:40
Therefore, Israel left Egypt 545yrs after Abraham died
Therefore, Israel left Egypt 720yrs after Abraham was born
David began to reign at 30yrs old - 2Sa 5:4
David reigned 40yrs - 2Sa 5:4
Solomon's 4th year of reign was the 480th since Israel left Egypt - 1Ki 6:1
Therefore, David was born 406yrs after Israel left Egypt
Therefore, David died 476yrs after Israel left Egypt
Therefore, there are 951yrs from Abraham's death until David's birth (14gen Min)
Therefore, there are 1196yrs from Abraham's birth until David's death (14gen Max)
Therefore, the 14 generations from Abraham to David would each average 67.93yrs minimum and 85.43yrs maximum.