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Defending the faith: A discussion of Catholic Doctrine
- Thread starter JLB
- Start date
I disagree. Let’s please keep the discussion scripturally sound, and cordial.
Mary gave birth to the flesh and blood man Jesus Christ.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6
God is Spirit.
God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth. John 4:24
Mary gave birth to flesh. Mary didn’t give birth to God who is Spirit.
Jesus Christ was made (became) a little lower than the angels, which is to say He was made (became) a man, (flesh).
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14
God became flesh. God was made flesh.
God was manifested in the flesh.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16
The virgin Mary gave birth to flesh, the man Jesus Christ.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1 Timothy 2:5
JLB
Mary had sons, and daughters.
James being one of them and is the author of the book of James.
Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him because of the crowd. And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.”
But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” Luke 8:19-21
Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this Man get all these things?”
Matthew 13:55-56
JLB
Mungo
Member
If you really want to do that then you have blown it already by introducing three major topics.
It's had enough to keep a thread focused on one topic.
If you want the Catholic perspective then there are these threads already:
Mary The Mother of God
Mary - Ever Virgin
I gave scripture. I dont follow man's doctrine.
Christian's follow Jesus Christ and His words.
If you cant show any scripture to back your sect's teachings them I would encourage you to please consider what Jesus and His apostles taught.
JLB
Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this Man get all these things?”
Matthew 13:55-56
Mungo
Member
Walpole
Member
Answered again here ---> https://christianforums.net/threads/understanding-mary-ever-virgin.90291/post-1775731
I have received answers from the Truth. If you choose to disregard the truth and teach doctrine that is not from Christ then that is between you and the Lord.
Mary had sons, and daughters.
Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him because of the crowd. And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.”
But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” Luke 8:19-21
Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this Man get all these things?”
Matthew 13:55-56
JLB
If you have a scripture that you believe teaches us Mary didn’t have other children then please post the scripture here and I and others will examine your scripture, so we can all be aware of it.
Here are a couple of scriptures that show us that Mary did had other children after Jesus.
Please show your scriptures that teach us that Mary did not have other children after Jesus.
Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him because of the crowd. And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.”
But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” Luke 8:19-21
Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this Man get all these things?”
Matthew 13:55-56
JLB
Which one of these two points do you find to be false?
Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him because of the crowd. And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.”
But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” Luke 8:19-21
Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this Man get all these things?”
Matthew 13:55-56
JLB
Walpole
Member
Again, no one is denying Jesus has brothers. For you have been showed numerous times now the term "brother" in Jewish antiquity had a much broader meaning than a uterine or agnate sibling. This is further evidenced in the Scriptures themselves. Notice how NO ONE is called a child of Mary, save Jesus. There is NO scripture which identifies another as a son (or daughter) of Mary.
The idea that Jesus had uterine siblings is completely foreign to Scripture and Christianity.
Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him because of the crowd. And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.”
But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” Luke 8:19-21
Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this Man get all these things?”
Matthew 13:55-56
Where is “my interpretation“ is this post?
JLB
Since mother is used each time in the context, brother is plainly understood to mean son of my mother.
Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him because of the crowd. And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.”
But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” Luke 8:19-21
Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this Man get all these things?”
Matthew 13:55-56
Then when His mother and His brothers and His sisters are all used then the strength of the context is undeniable.
The brothers and sisters are Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ, natural offspring.
Scripture is the truth.
JLB
Yes. There is something called the natural verses unnatural readings of a text, and when "mother" is here combined with "brothers" in the same phrase, it suggests one of two things. Either:
1. Both were literal relatives of Jesus, or
2. Both were spiritual.
Since most - including most Catholics - are agreed that Luke was talking about the birth mother of Jesus in the flesh here, the natural reading (without any qualifiers present) assumes that any "brothers" referred to in this same phrase would be literal as well.
Certainly the term "brothers" was used in the spiritual sense in the NT, as well as the term "mothers" (Mark 10:29-31). But those who interpret Luke 8:19 to be talking about Mary are in the weaker position contextually by asserting that Jesus did not also have literal brothers in the flesh.
God bless,
Hidden