Determining who sent the two witnesses

[Shilohsfoal]

I've been told a couple of times in the last week that God sends the two witnesses in revelation 11.
Now this must be wrong because Jesus said that God sent his Son last.Last of all God sent his Son .Now either Jesus is wrong or a couple people on this board are wrong.Here is where Jesus said God sent his Son last.
Notice verse 37

The Parable of the Tenants​

33 “Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and moved to another place. 34 When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.
35 “The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. 36 Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. 37 Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.
38 “But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.


Now seeing God sent his Son last and doesn't send anyone else,let's see who these witnesses represent.Below we see that the Lord of these two witnesses was crucified.

Revelation 11:8
Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.


Lastly ,we read in the revelation of Jesus Christ that they are in fact Witnesses of Christ.


Revelation 11
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.


Now that we have determined that these two witnesses represent Christ,they are what we refer to as Christians.Now we need to determine if they are in fact doing what Christ has commanded them to do ,or if they are doing what he has taught not to do.
How many people on this prophecy are familiar with the gospel of Jesus Christ?Because if your not ,then you won't know if they are doing as Christ commanded in the gospel.
My next post we will look at their works and compare their works to Christs commandments.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Now below we see the works of these two witnesses of Jesus and the things they do in his name.Scripture says they kill people and torment people.It also states that they deprive people of rain .

Revelation 11

5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die.

6 They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.

7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them.
8 Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.
9 For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial.
10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.


Below are commandments Jesus has given to his disciples.These sayings is for all christians including the two witnesses of Christ who torment people.

Luke 6:27

27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.



As we can see,these two witnesses of Jesus do not do as Jesus has commanded them .I'm not sure why people believe they are doing good by killing and tormenting people.I know many Jews have thought they do God a service by killing Christians and I understand Muslims believe they are doing God's will by killing anyone who is not a Muslim.But I don't understand how a Christian ,after reading Jesus's commandments to his witnesses can say that these two witnesses in revelation are doing as Jesus has commanded them.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

How many of you believe that you are suppose to torment other people in Jesus name?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

This is what Jesus said he would do to his servants if they are not doing as he has commanded them.

Mathew 24
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[hawkman]

"Where their Lord was crucified "

 

[Shilohsfoal]

"Where their Lord was crucified "

That's what I'm saying.


And people think they are good servants of Jesus Christ for killing and tormenting other people.
Apparently,they completely ignore their Lord.


Mathew 7:12
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Jesus rebukes his own disciples who even mention killing another person.After seeing Jesus's strong disapproval toward his disciples,why would anyone think he would approve of these two witnesses of his killing and tormenting other people ?



Luke 9:54-55

And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?


But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

 

[hawkman]

Revelation 11

5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die.

Where does the 2 witnesses power come from ?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Where does the 2 witnesses power come from ?

3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4 They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”[a] 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.


Scripture says Christ appointed them for 1260 days.Scripture does not say where they get the power to stop it from raining or to turn waters to blood but I know there are some who have those powers.I know there are a couple evangelical military generals who have power to do those things.All they need to do is give the order to "fire".Im sure there are several in the Russian church who can as well and are making fire come down in Ukraine as we speak.

Most likely,they receive their power from the king of the north.

2 these 2
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


It would explain why they do everything Jesus tells them not to do

 

[Book of Revelation]

 

[Mr. G Lee]

The two witnesses . . . to the law (1) and (20 its prophets. the witness of faith two. let there be and its testimony Very God good

In Revelation God will send a famine for hearing the understanding of God He will kill or silence prophecy for a short while Satan again deceives mankind to rebuild the abomination of desolation. . temple made with human hands .He declared it desolate when he walked out for the last time in Mathew 23

Mathew 23 ;38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Is left desolate not will that some say 70 AC There is still a section wailing wall that mankind bows down to

 

[Davos]

That's what I'm saying.


And people think they are good servants of Jesus Christ for killing and tormenting other people.
Apparently,they completely ignore their Lord.


Mathew 7:12
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

The torment was from the word that they preached. Just as today sinners are tormented by the word.

 

[Davos]

The two witnesses were also candlesticks, do candlesticks torment people, or olive trees?

If you look at the symbolism of candlesticks in Revelation one, they represent churches. 7 representing the complete church, 2 being the least number of witnesses under the law. The 2 witnesses/candlesticks/olive trees represent the church in the dark ages of persecution where the true church was reduced to the lowest number to be a legal witness.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

The two witnesses were also candlesticks, do candlesticks torment people, or olive trees?

If you look at the symbolism of candlesticks in Revelation one, they represent churches. 7 representing the complete church, 2 being the least number of witnesses under the law. The 2 witnesses/candlesticks/olive trees represent the church in the dark ages of persecution where the true church was reduced to the lowest number to be a legal witness.

The number 7. . . I would agree represents complete or perfect.

I would lean towards 2 is the witness God has spoken as the light.

The law of faith. The witness of the father not seen. (1) The law "et there be" and the witness that seen the testimony. (2) "it was good"

Isaiah 8:20 informs us if mankind does not use both to represent the power of One. Then there is no light in there path.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Same two witnesses in revelation that will be killed silenced when God sends a famine for hearing the word, the gospel light.

The two working as one prophecy. The prophetic witnesses

Revelation 11: 3-4 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Mark 9:4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

Eternal God communing with the Son of man the temporal.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

The torment was from the word that they preached. Just as today sinners are tormented by the word.

Good grief.
No one is tormented by a preacher preaching the word.If you don't like what someone says you ignore them.
Hearing someone preach is not torment.
Torment is what hamas is doing to some Jews in Gaza and what the Israeli government is doing to Gaza citizens
Smiting people with plague and cutting off their water supply is torment and if there is one Christian present in that multitude then they are guilty of smiting their fellow servants which Jesus warned against.

 

[Davos]

Good grief.
No one is tormented by a preacher preaching the word.If you don't like what someone says you ignore them.
Hearing someone preach is not torment.
Torment is what hamas is doing to some Jews in Gaza and what the Israeli government is doing to Gaza citizens
Smiting people with plague and cutting off their water supply is torment and if there is one Christian present in that multitude then they are guilty of smiting their fellow servants which Jesus warned against.

Preachers at speakers corner in London which supposed to be a haven for free speach has preachers attacked and had death threats, and open air preachers all over the country have been arrested because of their testimony, one in the north of England was arrested so many times that he parked his car near the police station so he could get home quickly when he was released after several hours. An American Preacher in Canterbury was arrested. Doctors have last their jobs because they offered to pray for someone. There're martyrs memorials allover the country to those burnt at the stake, starved to death or tortured to death because their witness tormented people. I could put on here a description of someone being burnt to death by our local history society but I dont think it would be appreciated.
Didn't the preaching of John the Baptist torment Herod and his wife? Didn't the teaching of Jesus torment the high priests when they tore their garments?

 

[GodsGrace]

Preachers at speakers corner in London which supposed to be a haven for free speach has preachers attacked and had death threats, and open air preachers all over the country have been arrested because of their testimony, one in the north of England was arrested so many times that he parked his car near the police station so he could get home quickly when he was released after several hours. An American Preacher in Canterbury was arrested. Doctors have last their jobs because they offered to pray for someone. There're martyrs memorials allover the country to those burnt at the stake, starved to death or tortured to death because their witness tormented people. I could put on here a description of someone being burnt to death by our local history society but I dont think it would be appreciated.
Didn't the preaching of John the Baptist torment Herod and his wife? Didn't the teaching of Jesus torment the high priests when they tore their garments?

There are different degrees of torment.
A greater degree of torment should not be made to void the lesser degree.
The lesser degree is torment nonetheless.
(kind of like physical pain)

 

[GodsGrace]

Good grief.
No one is tormented by a preacher preaching the word.If you don't like what someone says you ignore them.
Hearing someone preach is not torment.
Torment is what hamas is doing to some Jews in Gaza and what the Israeli government is doing to Gaza citizens
Smiting people with plague and cutting off their water supply is torment and if there is one Christian present in that multitude then they are guilty of smiting their fellow servants which Jesus warned against.

It seems to me that many are tormented by the preaching of God's Word.
Why else would some be so determined to quiet Christianity?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Preachers at speakers corner in London which supposed to be a haven for free speach has preachers attacked and had death threats, and open air preachers all over the country have been arrested because of their testimony, one in the north of England was arrested so many times that he parked his car near the police station so he could get home quickly when he was released after several hours. An American Preacher in Canterbury was arrested. Doctors have last their jobs because they offered to pray for someone. There're martyrs memorials allover the country to those burnt at the stake, starved to death or tortured to death because their witness tormented people. I could put on here a description of someone being burnt to death by our local history society but I dont think it would be appreciated.
Didn't the preaching of John the Baptist torment Herod and his wife? Didn't the teaching of Jesus torment the high priests when they tore their garments?

If the preachers are in prison then they are no longer bothering anyone.Its not torment to preach.

Besides,the antichrist Jews in Jerusalem doesn't raise a finger against the false prophet.Israel has always loved their false prophets.Its the ones who are doing what Jesus said to do that are killed by Israel.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

It seems to me that many are tormented by the preaching of God's Word.
Why else would some be so determined to quiet Christianity?

During the 42 months in which the two witnesses occupy Jerusalem,there will many saints persecuted and killed throughout the cities of Israel..
Their persecution starts at the arrival of the two witnesses and lasts for 42 months till the two witnesses are finally killed.

Daniel 11:33
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.

The entire time these two witnesses torment other people the saints will be in prison and being killed.
These saints that are being persecuted in Israel at that time are not hurting anyone nor are they tormenting anyone.They are simply telling everyone the kingdom of heaven is at hand and to repent.That is not torment.They are being killed because Jews hate Christ .Jesus even said so in the gospel.

Mathew 10:22
You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.


But the two witnesses are killed because they kill and torment other people Maybe someday you will be able to tell the difference between right and wrong.