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Do Believers In Hell Fire Actually Believe?

  • Thread starter VirginShallConceive
  • Start date
Grappler said:
It only lessens the idea of the cross in your head...not mine. You must have this need for those who are unsaved to suffer endlessly...i don't. When did i say that 'God and His Son is not loving enough. He needs to do more.'??? You must have me confused with someone else. You worship a God who kills His Son??? You worship a God who tortures people for eternity??? You are one confused individual. God did not kill his Son...Jesus chose to lay down his life for us. As for you last question...no...is that going to get me 'unsaved' since i don't?:)
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Jesus CHOSE to lay His Life down. Is He not God? Creatures took God and Killed Him? We had authority over God? Yes God Killed His Son for YOU. Now that is where the confusion comes in. Gods love is manifest for You by Him Giving His Son(GOD) to you for your salvation.

He Killed His Perfect Son and the Son willingly did it For you and Me so worthless creatures like us can debate if Hell is eternal or not. If Hell is not eternal the Son Is not eternal.
 
P31Woman said:
Is it possible for you to worship a God who would?
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I did...for a long time...i was once "brain washed" in that kind of thinking. The illogic bothered me but i just played the ostrich and stuck my head in the sand and ignored the irrationality of it all. Thank God He showed me a better way. Does it bother you that your lost relatives and friends are according to your belief going to remain in a state of continual agony?
 
gr8grace said:
Jesus CHOSE to lay His Life down. Is He not God? Creatures took God and Killed Him? We had authority over God? Yes God Killed His Son for YOU. Now that is where the confusion comes in. Gods love is manifest for You by Him Giving His Son(GOD) to you for your salvation.

He Killed His Perfect Son and the Son willingly did it For you and Me so worthless creatures like us can debate if Hell is eternal or not. If Hell is not eternal the Son Is not eternal.
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Wow...now i am confused after reading that series of contradictions and oxymorons.:lol
 
Grappler said:
I did...for a long time...i was once "brain washed" in that kind of thinking. The illogic bothered me but i just played the ostrich and stuck my head in the sand and ignored the irrationality of it all. Thank God He showed me a better way. Does it bother you that your lost relatives and friends are according to your belief going to remain in a state of continual agony?
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I would have never given up my son to die for you.

As far as hell bothering me. Of course it does! I don't want anyone to go there. But more than that I trust God.
 
Grappler said:
Is this a test? Those whom you speak of will be cast into the Lake of Fire...this is referred to as the second death...in that place after they are resurrected they will die again hence the term second death. The error of the traditional view is that these people will also become immortal or be given eternal life which is a direct violation of argueably the most popular bible verse- John 3:16. Instead of burning forever they will burn up or out.:)
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A couple of things then:

1. What is the point of raising people, who are essentially dead, only to kill them again?

2. When does the following happen:

Luk 12:43 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes.
Luk 12:44 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions.
Luk 12:45 But if that servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed in coming,' and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk,
Luk 12:46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful.
Luk 12:47 And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating.
Luk 12:48 But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more. (ESV)

Clearly this is speaking of Jesus' return, yet we see that some will receive a "severe beating" and some a "light beating." Given that there will be varying levels of punishment, when does that happen since, according to you, the Lake of Fire will destroy all and those who are dead now are basically sleeping?

As for "eternal life" for those who go to hell, I strongly suggest you become familiar with the nuances of "life" and "death" as used in Scripture. And, as I have stated several times in this thread, your continual use of phrases such as "burning forever" are Straw Men. As you can see from the passage above, that is not the case, just as it seems to be the case that people will be in hell forever.
 
Free said:
Given that there will be varying levels of punishment, when does that happen since, according to you, the Lake of Fire will destroy all and those who are dead now are basically sleeping?
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I think Grappler thinks that 'destroy' in scripture means annihilation, cease to exist. You're also making very good points in your post. Blessings..

Free said:
1. What is the point of raising people, who are essentially dead, only to kill them again?
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urk said:
But Grappler, the part of being a real christian is not to glorify our beliefs more than scripture..
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And also taking scripture as a whole is very important for being a real Christian as well...and not judging others when they interpret scripture a little different than oneself...especially the "gray" areas. You never told me why it bothers you so much that i disagree with you on this topic.:)
 
Free said:
A couple of things then:

1. What is the point of raising people, who are essentially dead, only to kill them again?

2. When does the following happen:

Luk 12:43 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes.
Luk 12:44 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions.
Luk 12:45 But if that servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed in coming,' and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk,
Luk 12:46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful.
Luk 12:47 And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating.
Luk 12:48 But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more. (ESV)

Clearly this is speaking of Jesus' return, yet we see that some will receive a "severe beating" and some a "light beating." Given that there will be varying levels of punishment, when does that happen since, according to you, the Lake of Fire will destroy all and those who are dead now are basically sleeping?

As for "eternal life" for those who go to hell, I strongly suggest you become familiar with the nuances of "life" and "death" as used in Scripture. And, as I have stated several times in this thread, your continual use of phrases such as "burning forever" are Straw Men. As you can see from the passage above, that is not the case, just as it seems to be the case that people will be in hell forever.
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The answer to your first question is because God will judge and then punish the unrighteous....that is why He resurrects them here is some scripture John 5 28Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. As you can see Free i didn't make this up it is in the bible. When is this hour? It is when Jesus returns...unlike preterists i don't think that Jesus has returned yet so in my belief system this is still a future event. The answer to your second question pertaining to the parable will probably be when our Lord returns and judges and casts the unrighteous in the Lake of Fire...some will suffer more than others as scirpture implies that there are degrees of punishment. As to your "burning forever" comment...i don't believe the unrighteous are going to "burn forever" so i don't know what your point is. Look the bottom line is that the unrighteous are judged, cast into Hell, literally burn up or out some longer than others according to their judgement, and they cease to exsist...they die it is referred to as the second death...they do not get eternal life....they do not become immortal. Now as i have said many times before...i am more than happy to agree to disagree with you or anyone else who holds a different view on this subject. Now it is time to move on to other topics. You and everyone else have failed to prove to me that my view is wrong...Can i leave now? If anyone would like to continue this discussion feel free to send me a private message because as we can see nothing is being accomplished here. God bless you all and have a nice day!:wave
 
δοῦλος Ἰησοῦ said:
Was I trying to equate the lake of fire and Edom to be the same place? Please read my message again as I was trying to demonstrate how this exact same imagery used in Revelation is used in other apocalyptic accounts where it most certainly does NOT mean what those who take a literal interpretation of passages like Revelation 14:9-13 would mean.

Please take your time and read it again.
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The Scripture in Question is Rev 20:10. And in solid hermeneutics context is king. The best place to go is the surrounding context of the specific verse in question.

Just with all the Aspects in this one verse(Rev 20:10) we can see that it is a literal account.

And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
1. Satan~~Literal or imagery?
2. Satans deception~~Literal or imagery?
3. The Beast(world dictator)~~literal or imagery?
4. False prophet(false Messiah)~~Literal or imagery?

We have 4 Literal examples just in this one verse. And we can carry it into the next verse and we have more. The Great White Throne, Judgement~~Literal or imagery?

So we have, in verse 10, the Lake of Fire and forever and ever {eis aion aion}. If the surrounding context is literal,It is very hard to make the lake of fire and eis aion aion imagery.
 
:lock*** Folks I think we've run this one into the ground. Unless your planning on visiting Hell, the answer to the original question would not do to tell.
 
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