Does the Bible teach conscious torment over an infinite period of time?

[TonyChanYT]

What does eternal punishment mean?

On the one hand, Revelation 14:

10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

It seems strange that the Lamb should be present to watch them being tormented/tortured forever and ever.

11And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

Revelation 20:

10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The above are pretty strong passages to support forever torment.

On the other hand, Revelation 21:

8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Does second death imply conscious torment over an infinite period of time?

Maybe not, Isaiah 26:

10If favor is shown to the wicked, he does not learn righteousness; in the land of uprightness he deals corruptly and does not see the majesty of the LORD.

14 They are now dead, they live no more; their spirits do not rise. You punished them and brought them to ruin; you wiped out all memory of them.

Matthew 10:

28 "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell [Gehenna]."

Only God is immortal. Believers possess immortality because they have the Paraclete. Non-believers do not have the Paraclete. They are not immortal, 1 Corinthians 15:

53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.

Does hell imply conscious torment over an infinite period of time?

Many Christians today think so. I apply first-order logic to analyze Bible verses. To me, eternal conscious torment isn't a 100% sure thing. It has never been at any time in church history. There have always been some other views such as annihilationism. Origen was a Universalist. Further, it is hard to find verses from the Hebrew Scripture to support eternal conscious torment.

Some Christians argue for conscious torment for a finite period of time. In any case, I'm not the judge of people's eternal destination. I know that Jesus died for all my sins and I have eternal life in Christ.

Whatever will happen to the unbelievers, I rest in God that he will do the right thing—whatever that may be.

See also Eternal punishment vs eternal life.

 

[JLB]

It seems strange that the Lamb should be present to watch them being tormented/tortured forever and ever.

There are many strange things that we may not be able to fully comprehend now in this life.

Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” Revelation 14:9-11

• He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever;

Just because we don’t understand something in the scriptures doesn’t mean we should try and explain them away.


My advice to you and anyone else, don’t take the mark of the beast.




JLB

 

[Josef]

What does eternal punishment mean?

On the one hand, Revelation 14:


It seems strange that the Lamb should be present to watch them being tormented/tortured forever and ever.


Revelation 20:


The above are pretty strong passages to support forever torment.

On the other hand, Revelation 21:


Does second death imply conscious torment over an infinite period of time?

Maybe not, Isaiah 26:



Matthew 10:


Only God is immortal. Believers possess immortality because they have the Paraclete. Non-believers do not have the Paraclete. They are not immortal, 1 Corinthians 15:


Does hell imply conscious torment over an infinite period of time?

Many Christians today think so. I apply first-order logic to analyze Bible verses. To me, eternal conscious torment isn't a 100% sure thing. It has never been at any time in church history. There have always been some other views such as annihilationism. Origen was a Universalist. Further, it is hard to find verses from the Hebrew Scripture to support eternal conscious torment.

Some Christians argue for conscious torment for a finite period of time. In any case, I'm not the judge of people's eternal destination. I know that Jesus died for all my sins and I have eternal life in Christ.

Whatever will happen to the unbelievers, I rest in God that he will do the right thing—whatever that may be.

See also Eternal punishment vs eternal life.

Hey All,

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
I messed up again. I am just going to do this in a way I know works.

It seems strange that the Lamb should be present to watch them being tormented/tortured forever and ever. Quote from TonyChanYT

Only strange, Tony, if your god is not infinite. My God is. He occupies all space.

Jeremiah 24:23 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

"Does second death imply conscious torment over an infinite period of time?" Quote from TonyChanYT

Yes.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Two times the Revelation tells us this lake of fire is the second death.

These render your Isiah and 1 Corinthians support as incorrect. I can tell right now without doing a deep study that your Isaiah quote is mixing judgement-bound unbelievers with unbelievers who have died a normal human death. Other than reading the verse, and the chapter, I haven't studied at it. Verse 53 you quote is talking about believers.
How do I know that?

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

"We shall not all sleep" Paul is including himself as part the group that will not sleep.

I don't know how trained you are in Scripture interpretation. So hopefully they are just honest errors. So what I am about to say is not directed at you personally.

This is exactly the way a heretic works. They give you a piece of the truth mixed with their false interpretation of what it means. That is how Jesus, in John 1:1 is changed from being God to being a god. Don't let them cause you to stumble or fall. Amen.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz