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Early church fathers

early writings

  • All correct

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Mostly correct

    Votes: 4 100.0%

  • Somewhat correct

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Not at all correct

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    4

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C

Collier

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Just wanted to hear some opinions on how each thought of the early church fathers.
  • Do you believe they were right on, mostly right, somewhat right or way off base?
How much should we look to their writings and for what reasons?
  • By the way, I am speaking of the writings in the 2nd and 3rd centuries, not the writings of the apostles, but I am sure most of you knew that. Just wanted those who were not quite sure to understand what I was asking about.
 
Example: Someone starts printing out the posts from this forum and collects them into a big book. Should our posts be seen as 'correct?' Hardy. We could be seen as Latter Church Fathers using this mode of thinking. :-? This is a good question Katlic's need to ask themselves, is our faith Biblical or Historical? (remember you most pick one as the final word on faith.)

The ECF's had somethings right and somethings wrong, keeping in mind that many didn't have a full canon of Scriptures, they did a great job for the most part.

Sola Scriptura

j
 
Jason,
  • I agree!
I have seen several references to some of their writings in some of the post and just wondered how people viewed them.
 
Collier said:
Jason,
  • I agree!
I have seen several references to some of their writings in some of the post and just wondered how people viewed them.
Click to expand...

I think we still should read them.
 
ye110man said:
It's hard to believe that those who were taught by the apostles directly were only "somewhat correct" or "not at all correct."
Click to expand...

The Apostles are called by Jesus Himself, ECF's are just believers no greater then us in knowledge of God and His ways. We have a full canon now...
 
ye110man said:
"So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by our letter." - 2 Thess 2:15
The ECFs had something we don't; the teachings of the apostles by word of mouth and very possibly letters which we do not have today.

Are you saying that the apostles taught nothing of value outside the canon we have today?
Click to expand...

The apostle taught what became Scritpure.
 
JM said:
Example: Someone starts printing out the posts from this forum and collects them into a big book. Should our posts be seen as 'correct?' Hardy. We could be seen as Latter Church Fathers using this mode of thinking. :-? This is a good question Katlic's need to ask themselves, is our faith Biblical or Historical? (remember you most pick one as the final word on faith.)

The ECF's had somethings right and somethings wrong, keeping in mind that many didn't have a full canon of Scriptures, they did a great job for the most part.

Sola Scriptura

j
Click to expand...
The apostolic church founded by Christ DOES NOT require sacred scripture to know the truth!
 
JM said:
The Apostles are called by Jesus Himself, ECF's are just believers no greater then us in knowledge of God and His ways. We have a full canon now...
Click to expand...
All apostles / bishops have the same authority as Christ! Jn 20:21
 
Matt 28:19-20

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jn 20:21-23

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Acts 1:8

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
 
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 acts 1:8 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15


Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...


John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission as Christ! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

We must be taught by Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Lk 10:16 Matt 28:19 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

Matthew 18:17
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

It is a thing unthinkable! To refuse to hear the church is to refuse to hear Christ!
Christ and His church are one. Acts 9:4

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!
 
Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
Jn 17:22 / rom 2:10 / 1 pet 1:7 Christ shares His glory with His saints!
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
Must hear church Matt 18:18
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!
 
Both scripture and the apostles have the same authority!

Both are God breathed!

Both Inspired!

Both come from the same source and are of divine origin & authority!


You said:
“God wrote scripture”! Ok

God is the source of truth and the author of the life of grace. Jn 1:16-17 Jn 14:6

Then why don’t you believe the Apostles; His Apostolic Church?

God is the ultimate authority, Christ is the authority of God, sent By God and therefore the Apostles; His Apostolic Church are the authority of Christ and sent by Christ!

The Apostles; His Apostolic Church is the extension of God & Christ with His authority to every place and time!

Under the explicit authority and command of Jesus Christ to teach & sanctity all men unto eternal salvation, with our obedience to them being implied! Matt 28:19 Lk 10:15 Jn 20:21-23

All under the guarantee & inspiration of the Holy Ghost! Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

Where does Christ or scripture ever say: “this applies to what they have written ALONE”?

The apostles taught us in person, preaching teaching as the witnesses of Christ (acts 1:8 & 16:17) and the “Mouthpiece of God”!

Thirty plus years before the first letter of the Gospel or New Testament was written, Christ handed down (tradition) or transmitted the fullness of truth to the Apostles; His Apostolic Church, and they exercised authority, teaching, and sanctifying. (administration of baptism, and the sacraments)

Then decades later some of the Apostles wrote some of these truths under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost!

The fullness of divine revelation was complete with the ascension of Christ, and there is no new public revelation, but the apostolic authority continues in the threefold mission that of His Apostolic Church, teach, govern, and to sanctify!

Sacred Scripture & Tradition are God breathed and inspired!

All Christians are bound (Matt 16:18-19 & 18:17-18) to believe and obey! (Rom 16:26)

If God is the ultimate authority and Christ is sent by God and exercise His authority then Christ is also the ultimate or equal authority!

If the apostles are sent by Christ and exercise His authority, and act in His name then the Apostles or His Apostolic Church are also the ultimate or equal authority!

Sacred Scripture & Tradition have equal authority and are the ultimate authority!

Verified by scripture:

2 thes 2:15
Matt 16:18-19
Matt 18:17
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:19-20
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 1:1-2
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 16:17


The holy gesture (sign of the cross) in its roots was a prayer in apostolic times.

Fourth-century Father of the Church St. Basil (329–379) said that the Apostles “taught us to mark with the sign of the cross those who put their hope in the Lord”—that is, those who presented themselves for Baptism.

Notice the level of authority He assigned to this statement: “the Apostles taught us”!

He could not say that if He believed that Sacred scripture was the “only authority”!
 
This thread is from 2004 and none of the other posters are here anymore.
 
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