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Earthly things and Heavenly things... the Israel of God and the church of God...

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Re: Thy Kingdom come...

There's another place in the gospel accounts (hint) where the LORD flat out tells His Apostles that they will sit upon thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel..

It's absolutely amazing where we find this...


Revelations 4:4?
 
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ok, eventide since you stated this in a most hebrew way.

lets go through the heavenly things from an ancient jewish perspective.

first question what does the menora represent to you and to the jewish nation? do watch this worship song by paul wilbur first then answer. it will set up something later on that i learned during channukah. do also keep in mind that the seven candle menora is all that is mentioned in the torah. the channukah menora is a nine candle menora. it didnt exist in the days of moses, but was used to remind the jews of the miracle that happened. it wasnt lit in the temple. it was in each jews homes.
[video=youtube;oP_LVQ28Cb8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP_LVQ28Cb8&feature=player_embedded[/video]
 
so you dont think that is all there? that isreal has all that in it and yet rejected it so that you a heathen could come to christ?
the menora is the empotomy of our lord jesus and the shummah is him. i saw it when i did channukah. the jews of today and then thought correctly jerusalem is where the heavens and the earth met. you dont believe that all. that is why i suggest you see the video it has a seen of the mosiac tabernacle that was in shiloh and then ark taken from it to the solomon temple.

the mercy seat that represents the meeting place of God and man, or that the word sacrifice means to draw near. never mind that in the HOLY of Holies god did dwell and all that was ripped open so that you a gentile could get into the presence of god.

jews and men died for violating that space in sin or touching the ark incorrectly. yet all that points to the cross and we the flesh are the temple of this god that died. nevermind that the sages(not the pharrisees) didnt believe in a third temple, but a fleshly one that jesus said he was."destroy this temple in three days yet i will raise it again"

it is all seeable in an account of genesis when isaac dug three wells and when the lord said to solomon i shall dwell in the temple. meaning that his presence would reside. paul said the city of jerusalem is in heaven and mother of us all.hmm

the very arrangement of the tribes of isreal around the tabernacle reflected the four living creatures around the throne room.

now then, unto the twelve tribes. did you ever think that when the lord comes he could simply point to his saints and tell them take your land you hebrew and tell them the tribe? i do. there can be no seperation jews and isrealites in the church from the nation of isreal that believed or will. all are in isreal. if that aint the case then the very mentioning the twelve negates that part as paul said we that are alive at his coming shall meet him in the air after the dead in christ shall rise first.hmm by that time many of the apostles likely were dead.hmm john outlived them all.
 
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do you know what isreal and to say that isreal returns to that is kinda pointless? that is what i meant by the law and millenium. i see things on my nation(not yours as your a gentile) a bit differently. since when does asking jesus deny me the right to be in my national heritage? that is why i left in part the idea of a rapture as you say. makes no sense. is salvation personal or national. if national show the me the verse jesus says the nation of isreal must believe? that too is why dont see god setting aside the gentiles to deal with isreal only in said trib. he can deal with jews invidually and raise them to be that nation.

what is the function of the third temple? revalent question.or do you know beleive that the church is also part of the kingdom age? the meek dont inherit the earth(who did die to make that happen??)or do they?
 
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This discussion has started like the proverbial 1000 small cuts. Bleed your enemy to death by multiple small insignificant attacks. Try to ask one question at a time in order to follow along one attack at a time; otherwise you are using smoke and mirrors to create a diversion for ignorance.
 
This discussion has started like the proverbial 1000 small cuts. Bleed your enemy to death by multiple small insignificant attacks. Try to ask one question at a time in order to follow along one attack at a time; otherwise you are using smoke and mirrors to create a diversion for ignorance.
1) what was the heavenlies to the jews? by this i mean what is exactly do they consider things that represent god in imagery and yes there is that in the bible in the ot.

they couldnt make certain things then but theres thing in the temple that god said make and they represent certain facets of him.
 
1) what was the heavenlies to the jews? by this i mean what is exactly do they consider things that represent god in imagery and yes there is that in the bible in the ot.

they couldnt make certain things then but theres thing in the temple that god said make and they represent certain facets of him.

The question needs to directly relate to Israel (as a nation) and the church of God (as Christians). We are told that all things were written before to the nation of Israel as an allegory for the Kingdom of God. The Jews and Christians received the same message. To the Jews it was in symbols, and to Christians it was revealed. It is the same message to the same people. There is now neither Jew nor Greek (Galatians 3:28; Colossians 3:11). Is that statement correct? Was Paul telling us the truth?
 
The question need to directly relate to Israel (as a nation) and the church of God (as Christians). We are told that all things were written before to the nation as a model (or allegory) for the Kingdom of God. The Jews and Christians received the same message. To the Jews it was in symbols, and to Christians it was revealed. It is the same message to the same people. There is now neither Jew nor Greek (Galatians 3:28; Colossians 3:11). Is that statement correct? Was Paul telling us the truth?
its revelant, why would god have the nation of isreal line tribes and place banners that are the very image of the heads of the for living creatures around the tabernacle? ie the bull, the man, the eagle and lion? and put the ark in the middle of that? and in ezekiel and revalation we say that again. what is being reflected by that?

what is it reflecting? isnt the book of revalation really about the revalation or unveiling of christ? it is and if so then is not the idea of the third temple being flesh not a building all the more real?

its worth digging into. i no longer think that the tanach is just something to glance over and dig and read like i used to.

now then what does channukah and the menorah have to do with christ? oh we can learn alot on that one.

but you are correct isreal and her feasts do reflect clearly what the kingdom is and what is to come. the feasts and shabat are but shadows of things to come.
 
I wont play in this thread, as much as i would like too. I will and have deleted personal attacks..... Just stop and discuss points and be nice. reba
 
This discussion has started like the proverbial 1000 small cuts. Bleed your enemy to death by multiple small insignificant attacks. Try to ask one question at a time in order to follow along one attack at a time; otherwise you are using smoke and mirrors to create a diversion for ignorance.


Well said Tri
 
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