Elisha and the bears

[Whatever]

2Ki 2:23 Then he (Elisha) went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up the road, some youths came from the city and mocked him, and said to him, "Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!"24 So he turned around and looked at them, and pronounced a curse on them in the name of the LORD. And two female bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

Who believe this was just a coincidence or directly from God?

Leviticus 26:21 “‘If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve. 22 I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted.

 

[electedbyhim]

I do not believe the Bible teaches coincidence or chance. Everything is orchestrated by Gods providence and sovereignty.

Of course, those who oppose will throw out these verses.

1Sa_6:9 “See, if it goes up by the way of its own territory to Beth-shemesh, then He has done us this great evil. But if not, then we will know that it was not His hand that smote us; it happened to us by chance.”


2Sa_1:6 And the young man who told him said, “By chance I happened to be on Mount Gilboa, and behold, Saul was leaning on his spear. And behold, the chariots and the horsemen pursued him closely.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I believe it was God protecting his man. If the bears got only 42 of these young men in the prime of life threatening the prophet, how many got away? Twice as many? Certainly the majority ran away to safety. So we’re talking a massive gang of strong young men. Who wouldn’t need protection?

 

[Whatever]

I believe it was God protecting his man. If the bears got only 42 of these young men in the prime of life threatening the prophet, how many got away? Twice as many? Certainly the majority ran away to safety. So we’re talking a massive gang of strong young men. Who wouldn’t need protection?

Again, I think you are completely misreading what was going on. They were not threatening him. It says he turned back and looked at them. They were a just a bunch of jerks that God told Israel should be put to death.

Deu 21:18 "If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and who, when they have chastened him, will not heed them, 19 then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city, to the gate of his city. 20 And they shall say to the elders of his city, 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.' 21 Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall put away the evil from among you, and all Israel shall hear and fear.

We are more compassionate than God today and don't do that, so we have all the gang shootings and store lootings etc, going on in our larger cities.

In Romans 1:29-32 Paul agrees with God.

 

[jasonc]

Again, I think you are completely misreading what was going on. They were not threatening him. It says he turned back and looked at them. They were a just a bunch of jerks that God told Israel should be put to death.

Deu 21:18 "If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and who, when they have chastened him, will not heed them, 19 then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city, to the gate of his city. 20 And they shall say to the elders of his city, 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.' 21 Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall put away the evil from among you, and all Israel shall hear and fear.

We are more compassionate than God today and don't do that, so we have all the gang shootings and store lootings etc, going on in our larger cities.

In Romans 1:29-32 Paul agrees with God.

Romans one ,the blood covers those sins .plenty of pastors wouldn't be alive to preach.

Let alone the line of Christ .David was worthy of death for two things murder and adultery.

I get your point .I believe the world child in jewry is under 13. You were an adult at 13 ,thus the bar and bat mitzvah traditions and that dates back orally to Moses time .
.you understood the torah and recited it to the temple and studied for it for years.

There is a jewess in my church who can recite and still read Hebrew and is kosher .she believes and has held peshac ,the shavout and other feasts in her house .her son still does that with his .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Again, I think you are completely misreading what was going on. They were not threatening him. It says he turned back and looked at them. They were a just a bunch of jerks that God told Israel should be put to death.

And you accuse me of misreading? Where is the verse that says God told Israel to put them to death? And does it say they were killed? Mauled? yes? Died? not mentioned.

If you were surrounded by 84 strong young men in the prime of life who were focusing just on you jeering at you with words, would you tell yourself, “ah they are just jerks?” Do 50+ strong young men focusing on taunting if not tormenting an lonely old person ever do harm to them? Wouldn’t you be afraid?

Deu 21:18 "If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and who, when they have chastened him, will not heed them, 19 then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city, to the gate of his city. 20 And they shall say to the elders of his city, 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.' 21 Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall put away the evil from among you, and all Israel shall hear and fear.

We are more compassionate than God today and don't do that, so we have all the gang shootings and store lootings etc, going on in our larger cities.

The god the Calvinists believe in IS very cruel so I can see why you believe you are more compassionate than him. You are more compassionate than the almighty the calvinists love. You would never arbitrarily predestine some for hell with no hope.

In Romans 1:29-32 Paul agrees with God.

I agree with God too on all matters. That’s because I know and understand Him and His ways. They are superior and highly admirable although “marvelous” is closer to describing them.

 

[Benadam]

2Ki 2:23 Then he (Elisha) went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up the road, some youths came from the city and mocked him, and said to him, "Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!"24 So he turned around and looked at them, and pronounced a curse on them in the name of the LORD. And two female bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

Who believe this was just a coincidence or directly from God?

Leviticus 26:21 “‘If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve. 22 I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted.

This foreshadows the 42 month reign of Blasphemy in Revelation. It's not coincidence.
The two witnesses foreshadowed too.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

This foreshadows the 42 month reign of Blasphemy in Revelation. It's not coincidence.
The two witnesses foreshadowed too.

I guess prophesy is in just about every verse for some. God protecting his prophesy is too easy.

 

[Whatever]

Where is the verse that says God told Israel to put them to death?

I gave you the verse. I guess you just ignored it. You know, that the only reason I respond to you is for the lurkers or others who read these posts. I have no dream of ever convincing you. Your hatred of Calvinism has made you so hard that it is impossible. Getting you to agree with something I post, would be like me trying to get Nancy Pelosi to agree that Trump is a good guy.

 

[electedbyhim]

I gave you the verse. I guess you just ignored it. You know, that the only reason I respond to you is for the lurkers or others who read these posts. I have no dream of ever convincing you. Your hatred of Calvinism has made you so hard that it is impossible. Getting you to agree with something I post, would be like me trying to get Nancy Pelosi to agree that Trump is a good guy.

Now that is funny some stuff.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I gave you the verse. I guess you just ignored it.

That verse was quoted was not applied in that incident. You pulled that from elsewhere and there’s no evidence it was applied.

You know, that the only reason I respond to you is for the lurkers or others who read these posts. I have no dream of ever convincing you. Your hatred of Calvinism has made you so hard that it is impossible. Getting you to agree with something I post, would be like me trying to get Nancy Pelosi to agree that Trump is a good guy.

I have only love for my Calvinist brethren. I don’t accuse them of hating people not of their persuasion. I don’t call interested readers “lurkers” which is insulting.

 

[electedbyhim]

That verse was quoted was not applied in that incident. You pulled that from elsewhere and there’s no evidence it was applied.

I have only love for my Calvinist brethren. I don’t accuse them of hating people not of their persuasion. I don’t call interested readers “lurkers” which is insulting.

lurker​

noun​

1. a person who lurks, in particular a user of an internet message board or chat room who does not participate.

 

[Whatever]

That verse was quoted was not applied in that incident.

I quoted 2 verses. One from the OT where rebellious sons were to be put to death and one from Paul who says that these kinds of people deserve death. Elisha applied that principal when he cursed these guys who were mocking him.

 

[Benadam]

H

I guess prophesy is in just about every verse for some. God protecting his prophesy is too easy.

Hi Dorothy.
True but not a certain sign of flawed discernment.
Certain signs exist but yours aren't among them as you reject prophecy with the characteristics of eternal life of Christ.
The testimony of Christ is the spirit of prophecy.
Rev. 12,11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and
they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev. 19,10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me,
1thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Rev. 2,10
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it.’
Rev 22
22 Then the angel[a] showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
John 4
but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again.[b] The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” 1

the testimony is our own signed with our new name. It conquers by the blood of the Lamb
It's a testimony that is inherently prophetic. It's prophecy that's new and like Jesus, always was, is now, and yet to come.
It is the water that flows and wells up from the heart to eternal life.
Prophecy as it is in the NC begins to be fulfilled when time begins to happen. It is happening in every moment of time, it is complete at the last moment when time ends .
If you don't know the prophecy of the NC of course it will be rejected. Prophecy lifted up in Christ finds fulfillment in every moment of time
Jesus is the alpha and omega.
Dorothy, I pray you can accept whatever is true and hate error.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

H

Hi Dorothy.
True but not a certain sign of flawed discernment.
Certain signs exist but yours aren't among them as you reject prophecy with the characteristics of eternal life of Christ.
The testimony of Christ is the spirit of prophecy.
Rev. 12,11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and
they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev. 19,10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me,
1thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Rev. 2,10
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it.’
Rev 22
22 Then the angel[a] showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
John 4
but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again.[b] The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” 1

the testimony is our own signed with our new name. It conquers by the blood of the Lamb
It's a testimony that is inherently prophetic. It's prophecy that's new and like Jesus, always was, is now, and yet to come.
It is the water that flows and wells up from the heart to eternal life.
Prophecy as it is in the NC begins to be fulfilled when time begins to happen. It is happening in every moment of time, it is complete at the last moment when time ends .
If you don't know the prophecy of the NC of course it will be rejected. Prophecy lifted up in Christ finds fulfillment in every moment of time
Jesus is the alpha and omega.
Dorothy, I pray you can accept whatever is true and hate error.

Way too etheral for me. I know prophesy as God telling men or a man what will come to happen in space and time to them and/or others and it happens or still will. This has been true on a personal level as well as to peoples. I’m just too practical with both feet on the ground for your kind of thinking.

But I wish you all the best!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I quoted 2 verses. One from the OT where rebellious sons were to be put to death and one from Paul who says that these kinds of people deserve death. Elisha applied that principal when he cursed these guys who were mocking him.

I know you did. I know the Bible pretty well and I know those verses pretty well. The incident with the bears and the Levitical law are two very different discussions. You mix them up. Notice the strong young men were not violating the levitical law you quote so no Elisa did not apply the law to them as they did not rebel against their parents. He was very much afraid, being surrounded by taunting strong young men in numbers of 50 and upwards. Who wouldn't be afraid? But they were not killed. They were not brought to the city gates and stoned. That law was not applied.

Pretty sure Paul did not quote the levitical law in the verses you refer to in Paul's writing. And everyone deserves death, by the way, all who sin deserve to die. And guess what? All do die. So there you are. Is Paul and God cruel on account of the fact that all men sin and all men die? Do you think you are more compassionate than either one of those because you would have it differently?

 

[Benadam]

Way too etheral for me. I know prophesy as God telling men or a man what will come to happen in space and time to them and/or others and it happens or still will. This has been true on a personal level as well as to peoples. I’m just too practical with both feet on the ground for your kind of thinking.

But I wish you all the best!

Nice. No expression of agreement. No counter argument of disagreement. Just insults veiled in self aggrandizing statements of personal virtue from which ' good'' prophecy is found.
How you understand the purpose of Prophecy is unbiblical. Informing man about future events is consequential to it's primary purpose of service to the salvation of man. Making a straight
Way to the Lord.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Nice. No expression of agreement. No counter argument of disagreement. Just insults veiled in self aggrandizing statements of personal virtue from which ' good'' prophecy is found.
How you understand the purpose of Prophecy is unbiblical. Informing man about future events is consequential to it's primary purpose of service to the salvation of man. Making a straight
Way to the Lord.

Um, There’s a lot of prophesy that simply gives the recipient understanding and deepens their walk with Him to a very close level. And salvation is not his primary purpose. He has another primary purpose. Salvation is secondary.

 

[Whatever]

I know you did. I know the Bible pretty well and I know those verses pretty well. The incident with the bears and the Levitical law are two very different discussions.

Again, you are denying that the Levitical Law gave principals that could be applied in all kinds of situations.

The incident with the bears and the Levitical law are two very different discussions. You mix them up.

No I am not. The incident with the bears was clearly about rebellious young men who were being disrespectful to their an elder.

Leveiticus 19:32 “‘Stand up in the presence of the aged, show respect for the elderly and revere your God. I am the Lord.
It goes right back to that law Deu 21:18 "If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son . . .21 Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall put away the evil from among you, and all Israel shall hear and fear.

The Fathers clearly did not do this, so they had gangs of rebellious young men running around.

Notice the strong young men were not violating the levitical law you quote so no Elisa did not apply the law to them as they did not rebel against their parents.

Man, you would make a good lawyer for Hillary or Biden.

They were not brought to the city gates and stoned. That law was not applied.

When the people do not apply God's laws, then God will apply it Himself in His time and way.

Pretty sure Paul did not quote the levitical law in the verses you refer to in Paul's writing.

Paul didn't have to quote the Levitical law word for word. It was the principal that it taught.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

lurker​

noun​

1. a person who lurks, in particular a user of an internet message board or chat room who does not participate.

Ah, the dictionary speaks. Anyone “lurking around” is not being described in positive terms. Audiences to debates are called “audiences.” Do you need the dictionary definition to know what that word means? None of them participate in the debate. They observe. NO ONE BUT YOU would call them “lurkers.”
What an insult!

I’m moving on…maybe I come back later..