Ephesians 2:10

[Ernest T. Bass]

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."


Can one be a Christian yet not walk in those good works which God before ordained Christians to walk in?

Can one go through their whole life with faith only and not ever do any works, yet still be saved?





(See also Mat 25:32-46)

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."


Can one be a Christian yet not walk in those good works which God before ordained Christians to walk in?

Can one go through their whole life with faith only and not ever do any works, yet still be saved?





(See also Mat 25:32-46)
​

 

[savedbygrace57]

more importantly can a person walk in good works before being created again ?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

more importantly can a person walk in good works before being created again ?

More importantly do those that think 'faith only' saves believe one can be saved without doing those preordained good works of Eph 2:10?

Is it essential the Christian do these 'before ordained" works to remain in a saved position?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

More importantly do those that think 'faith only' saves believe one can be saved without doing those preordained good works of Eph 2:10?

Depends.

Depends on whether the lack of good works is because they really have not put their faith in the forgiveness of God or not.

Is it essential the Christian do these 'before ordained" works to remain in a saved position?

It is essential that the Christian stay in the faith that causes them to do the works ordained of faith in order to remain saved. That faith being faith in God's promise to forgive through Jesus Christ.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Can one go through their whole life with faith only and not ever do any works, yet still be saved?




(See also Mat 25:32-46)
[/INDENT]

Their whole life?

We are warned in Hebrews 6 that fields that produce thistles are in danger of being burned, but that the author was confident that the love and the work the Hebrews displayed signified "things that accompany salvation".

'Judge nothing before it's time' (1 Cor. 4)

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Depends.

Depends on whether the lack of good works is because they really have not put their faith in the forgiveness of God or not.



It is essential that the Christian stay in the faith that causes them to do the works ordained of faith in order to remain saved. That faith being faith in God's promise to forgive through Jesus Christ.

So by "depends" are saying a Christian can be saved witout doing those preordained works?


So if a Christian "stays in the faith" can he remain in the faith and be saved without doing those works of Eph 2:10?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Their whole life?

We are warned in Hebrews 6 that fields that produce thistles are in danger of being burned, but that the author was confident that the love and the work the Hebrews displayed signified "things that accompany salvation".

'Judge nothing before it's time' (1 Cor. 4)

Can a Christian be saved yet NOT do those works that accompany salvation?

Can one go through their whole life with faith only and not ever do any works, yet still be saved?

Those that follow faith only would have to answer "yes" meaning they can live their whole life without doing any obedient works and be saved in their disobedience or somehow change or thwart the good works God has preordained the Christian to walk in....neither of which is possible.


So isn't it reasonable to say that at some point in one's life, he must do some type of work to be saved and that no works will just leave one lost?

 

[Nathan Alterton]

We are "saved" when, as Paul writes in Philippians 3:8-9, we are "found in Christ." Both Jesus and Paul liken this state to a vine which gives life to its branches,

"I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me." John 15:1-4.

Jesus, James, and Paul seem to clearly state that those who are in Christ will "bear fruit." The message across the entire New Testament seems to be: "We are saved faith," what Paul would call "being found in Christ," and that faith will inevitably lead to good works. If someone is unwilling to engage in the good works that should naturally grow out of a subject of Christ, then it seems clear that they are not actually willing to bow the knee to their King, or as Jesus says, "abide in me."

 

[Webb]

Yes, "we are 'saved'---when we are found IN Christ." Emp. mine, webb. The only way I know one can get into Christ and thereby be "in Christ" is defined in Rom.6 begining with vs 3 and Gal.3 begining with vs 26.

God bless

 

[WIP]

I wonder if it is even possible to have saving faith and not do good works. To say one has saving faith and yet does not do good works would seem to suggest they did not have faith after all. But I also suspect that doing good works is not a prerequisite of being saved but a result of.

 

[savedbygrace57]

More importantly do those that think 'faith only' saves believe one can be saved without doing those preordained good works of Eph 2:10?

Is it essential the Christian do these 'before ordained" works to remain in a saved position?

You still have not explained the Created part yet, that comes before Faith and works !

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I wonder if it is even possible to have saving faith and not do good works. To say one has saving faith and yet does not do good works would seem to suggest they did not have faith after all. But I also suspect that doing good works is not a prerequisite of being saved but a result of.

So at some point works of some kind would have to be done before one can be saved making salvation dependant upon works.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

You still have not explained the Created part yet, that comes before Faith and works !

That's not the issue of this thread.

The issue of this thread is if a person can be saved without ever doing any work at all?

On another forum, the faith only crowd was having a difficult time answering this question without creating some major theological problems.


They do not want to answer "no" to the above question for then they are admitting salvation is conditional upon works. They do not want to be seen as having a 'works based' salvation.

When some answered 'yes' then how do they get around doing those good works God has "before ordained" the Christian should walk in? Can they undo or thwart those works God has preordained the Christian to do? No. Can one be a Christian without doing those 'before ordained works"? No.
Calvinist have told me that before the world began, God has preordained that certain individuals will believe and be saved, the rest will be lost. Calvinist have told me that there is nothing anyone can do to change or thwart what God has preordained. So how will the Calvinist get around doing those 'before ordained' works that Christian are to walk in? Again, one cannot be a Christian and not do those works, so those works are essential to being a Christian/saved.





Also if they answer 'yes', then by not doing any works such as obedient works, then they are in disobedience and no one will be saved while in disobedience to God. 2 Thess 1:8; Rom 2:8 says God will have vengeance, wrath, indignation upon them that 'obey not'.

So how will the followers of faith only on this forum answer the above question?

 

[savedbygrace57]

That's not the issue of this thread.

Its related to the issue. Before one can think about any good works or otherwise, they must first determine how to be Created unto those good works !

 

[farouk]

Faith is more than mental assent. There needs to be a change of heart, otherwise the person can erroneously think a life of sin is still possible in conjunction with whatever s/he thinks s/he has mentally assented to.

 

[Grazer]

Faith is more than mental assent. There needs to be a change of heart, otherwise the person can erroneously think a life of sin is still possible in conjunction with whatever s/he thinks s/he has mentally assented to.

Absolutely. I think W.H Griffith-Thomas puts it well:

[Faith] affects the whole of man's nature. It commences with the conviction of the mind based on adequate evidence; it continues in the confidence of the heart or emotions based on conviction, and it is crowned in the consent of the will, by means of which the conviction and confidence are expressed in conduct.

 

[farouk]

Absolutely. I think W.H Griffith-Thomas puts it well:

[Faith] affects the whole of man's nature. It commences with the conviction of the mind based on adequate evidence; it continues in the confidence of the heart or emotions based on conviction, and it is crowned in the consent of the will, by means of which the conviction and confidence are expressed in conduct.

G:

Yes, otherwise it wouldn't be real repentance (which means a thorough change of mind).

Blessings.

 

[WIP]

So at some point works of some kind would have to be done before one can be saved making salvation dependant upon works.

I think you need to read my post again for this is not what I said.

 

[savedbygrace57]

far

Faith is more than mental assent. There needs to be a change of heart,

Both Faith and Repentance are the effects of the New Birth, which all for whom Christ died is given by His Resurrection from the dead ! 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This word begotten is the greek word
anagennaō and means:
to produce again, be born again, born anew
2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

Thats Repentance ! And of curse a Lively Hope begets Faith !