Eternal Security!

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. Yes?

no you don't!

cos it's not in scripture!
it's not a verse of scripture!

the evangelicals preachers misquote it thousands of times and you know it cos you recognized it immediately!

here is the real scripture!

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, WHO WALK not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Those who walk after the flesh perform the deeds of the flesh!

Those who walk after the Spirit perform the deeds of the Spirit!

It's impossible without works!

The deeds of righteousness!
The deeds of the Spirit!
Begun and finished in Christ and in His life! (grace)

thks
Beware of basing doctrine off of passages intended for exhortation when there are perfectly clear passages intended to provide doctrine.

Paul's letters are typically like this.

A greeting

Doctrine

Exhortation

An analogy of what Paul is writting.... super simplified using absurdity.

Dear Christians hello I thank God for you and hope he blesses you just like He already has

God's hat is blue.

Dear brothers, be like God and wear blue hats, put away your red hats. Don't you know that red hats are worn by the heathens, therefore set yourself apart by wearing a blue hat.


Doctrine? Gods hat is blue

Exhortation? Wear blue hats because you want to be associated with God instead of heathens..

Not doctrine? Wearing red hats causes you to lose salvation
 
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. Yes?

no you don't!

cos it's not in scripture!
it's not a verse of scripture!

the evangelicals preachers misquote it thousands of times and you know it cos you recognized it immediately!

here is the real scripture!

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, WHO WALK not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Those who walk after the flesh perform the deeds of the flesh!

Those who walk after the Spirit perform the deeds of the Spirit!

It's impossible without works!

The deeds of righteousness!
The deeds of the Spirit!
Begun and finished in Christ and in His life! (grace)

thks
donadams----

Don't base your whole theology on something that may have been added to Romans 8:1.
Here's what Jesus Himself said:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HAS everlasting life, and SHALL NOT come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." (John 5:24)
 
Hmmm

Walking according to the spirit vs walking according to the flesh is not a work..... it's an outcome of faith..

Anyone who puts faith in their works for salvation must do every good work every single time with absolute purity of heart. No mistakes ever.....that's what the law requires and such a person is NOT under grace.
faith alone don't produce obedience charity does!

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep mycommandments.
 
Not all Christians are real believers...

Furthermore, Paul is constantly telling believers things as reminders of what they already know. Double Furthermore Paul writes to people to correct their behavior of people who are real believers pointing out their incongruent behavior with the law of God. Their behavior doesn't keep them from being saved believers, Paul is pointing out that their behavior is inconsistent with Gods charecter. For example, the Corinthian believers weren’t unsaved because they were taking eachother to court. They just need to correct their behavior to reflect the charecter of God.
Failing in the process of sanctification doesn't cause a loss of salvation. It is behavior that needs to be corrected so as to live like a believer..
it does prevent salvation!

outer darkness gnashing of teeth, shall not enter the kingdom all descriptions of loss of salvation!

mt 25:30
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20
gal 5:19-21
eph 5:2-6

even if you think you're saved by "faith alone"!
 
Beware of basing doctrine off of passages intended for exhortation when there are perfectly clear passages intended to provide doctrine.

Paul's letters are typically like this.

A greeting

Doctrine

Exhortation

An analogy of what Paul is writting.... super simplified using absurdity.

Dear Christians hello I thank God for you and hope he blesses you just like He already has

God's hat is blue.

Dear brothers, be like God and wear blue hats, put away your red hats. Don't you know that red hats are worn by the heathens, therefore set yourself apart by wearing a blue hat.


Doctrine? Gods hat is blue

Exhortation? Wear blue hats because you want to be associated with God instead of heathens..

Not doctrine? Wearing red hats causes you to lose salvation
just cos you don't believe

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
 
donadams----

Don't base your whole theology on something that may have been added to Romans 8:1.
Here's what Jesus Himself said:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HAS everlasting life, and SHALL NOT come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." (John 5:24)
is that the same as eternal salvation? thks
 
is that the same as eternal salvation? thks
Yes, of course. Everlasting life is eternal salvation. "For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him should not PERISH but have everlasting life" (John 3:16).
 
just cos you don't believe

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Scripture taken out of context ceases to be the word of God and therefore isn't Scripture and not subject to 2 timothy 3:16.
 
Yes, of course. Everlasting life is eternal salvation. "For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him should not PERISH but have everlasting life" (John 3:16).
what happens when we sin a sin unto death (spiritual death, loss of God, loss of Christ and grace)

thks
 
Yes, of course. Everlasting life is eternal salvation. "For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him should not PERISH but have everlasting life" (John 3:16).
eternal life is not eternal salvation but the life of God in us! (grace)

which we can lose!

2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthenvessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

mt 25:30
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20
gal 5:19-21
eph 5:2-6
never inherit the kingdom of God or eternal salvation
even if you think you're saved by "faith alone"!

Children of disobedience are under condemnation and the wrath of God abides on them! eph 5:6

thks
 
Scripture taken out of context ceases to be the word of God and therefore isn't Scripture and not subject to 2 timothy 3:16.
then you can make scripture support any doctrine!

acts 2:42 they held to the doctrine (ancient faith) of the apostles not the novelties of luther!
 
then you can make scripture support any doctrine!

acts 2:42 they held to the doctrine (ancient faith) of the apostles not the novelties of luther!
No, it prevents you from making the scriptures say anything.
 
eternal life is not eternal salvation but the life of God in us! (grace)

which we can lose!

2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthenvessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

mt 25:30
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20
gal 5:19-21
eph 5:2-6
never inherit the kingdom of God or eternal salvation
even if you think you're saved by "faith alone"!

Children of disobedience are under condemnation and the wrath of God abides on them! eph 5:6

thks
donadams---

You said: "eternal life is not eternal salvation but the life of God in us! (grace)"

That is your own doctrine. Show me where the Bible says eternal life is not eternal salvation.
 
what happens when we sin a sin unto death (spiritual death, loss of God, loss of Christ and grace)

thks
A born-again believer cannot commit the "sin unto death". How can one become "un-born-again"?
 
donadams---

You said: "eternal life is not eternal salvation but the life of God in us! (grace)"

That is your own doctrine. Show me where the Bible says eternal life is not eternal salvation.
show me where we here and now have eternal salvation?

eternal life is not life eternal but the life of God in us! (grace)

Jn 1:16-17

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Jn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

eph 2:1 & 2:5 quickend or brought to life!

fragile can lose

2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthenvessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

can lose the blessing of Christ and grace by sin!

mt 25:30
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20
gal 5:19-21
eph 5:2-6
never inherit the kingdom of God or eternal salvation

can reject Christ and renounce our baptism

2 Timothy 2:12

(((even if you think you're saved by "faith alone"!)))

Children of disobedience are under condemnation and the wrath of God abides on them! eph 5:6
(((even if you think you're saved by "faith alone"!)))
 
A born-again believer cannot commit the "sin unto death". How can one become "un-born-again"?
born again is the life of God in us!

union with God thru Christ empowered by grace and the spirit to do Hiss will!

The sin unto death would be spiritual death, separation from God and grace!

thks
 
A born-again believer cannot commit the "sin unto death". How can one become "un-born-again"?
anyone can!

Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

any man!
 
show me where we here and now have eternal salvation?

eternal life is not life eternal but the life of God in us! (grace)

Jn 1:16-17

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Jn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

eph 2:1 & 2:5 quickend or brought to life!

fragile can lose

2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthenvessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

can lose the blessing of Christ and grace by sin!

mt 25:30
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20
gal 5:19-21
eph 5:2-6
never inherit the kingdom of God or eternal salvation

can reject Christ and renounce our baptism

2 Timothy 2:12

(((even if you think you're saved by "faith alone"!)))

Children of disobedience are under condemnation and the wrath of God abides on them! eph 5:6
(((even if you think you're saved by "faith alone"!)))
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that you may KNOW that you HAVE eternal life, and that you may believe on the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:13).

This verse says we can KNOW that we HAVE (right now!!) ETERNAL LIFE. Eternal Life IS Eternal Salvation.

"Beloved, NOW are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we SHALL be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we SHALL be like him; for we SHALL see him as he is". (1 John 3:2)

This verse says that right NOW we are the sons of God and it does not appear what we SHALL be. Note that John doesn't say that now we are the sons of God, and IF WE MAKE IT we shall be like Him--he simply says we SHALL be like him. It is God's promise to His children. Eternal life and salvation is a FREE GIFT of God--it isn't something we can EARN.
 
show me where we here and now have eternal salvation?

eternal life is not life eternal but the life of God in us! (grace)

Jn 1:16-17

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Jn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

eph 2:1 & 2:5 quickend or brought to life!

fragile can lose

2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthenvessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

can lose the blessing of Christ and grace by sin!

mt 25:30
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20
gal 5:19-21
eph 5:2-6
never inherit the kingdom of God or eternal salvation

can reject Christ and renounce our baptism

2 Timothy 2:12

(((even if you think you're saved by "faith alone"!)))

Children of disobedience are under condemnation and the wrath of God abides on them! eph 5:6
(((even if you think you're saved by "faith alone"!)))
You just said it right there..

" even if you think you're saved"

What we think about the status of our salvation in completely irrelevant, as we are capable of and in fact inclined to think only good things about ourselves.

Many people believe they are saved but are not.. Even in Jesus's time there were deeply religious people who believed they were saved but were not. The Pharisees come to mind. These were people like Saul, who did all the right things. They were trusting in their works for salvation. The rich young ruler he also did all the right things kept all of God's laws. He would be a deacon in any church but he was not saved.

Jesus spent His whole ministry cutting through our bologna that we put up in order to get to the heart of the matter.

" you have heard it said do not commit adultery but I tell you anyone who looks at a woman lustfully commits adultery with her in his heart"

This should deflate the pride of any man who thinks he's been a virtuous husband.. you haven't...

This is why salvation, eternal life, life with the Father, heaven, not going to hell which are all synonymous cannot be works based. Because even as born again regenerate Christians are still on our very best day, evil and in need of a savior.

That's what Jesus's whole ministry was about. He wasn't trying to get us to be better people. He was holding up a mirror and saying you need a Savior and I am He.

In spite of my transformed life. I am not much better than i was as an unbeliever. Why? Because " the good i want to do I do not do but the evil that I don't want to do that I keep on doing " That is what it means to be human. To be corrupt, to be utterly depraved, that is why salvation comes by grace through faith not the result of works. And that is why no one may boast.
"If a man says he is without sin he is a liar and the truth is not in him"

Jesus's work on the cross did away with sin once and for all. We still need to turn from our sins as we discover them in our lives but those sins no longer have any bearing on our eternal destiny.

" if you confess your sins He is faithful and just to forgive your sins and purify you from all unrighteousness "
Think about that for a minute....
Jesus's work on the cross was so powerful that it's an act of justice when He forgives us!!
Justice.... as in the right thing to do.. as in a legal obligation.
Not that God is obligated to us but to the work Jesus did.

That is why my name here is onlysaved.. I make no other claims about myself. Im not good, im not righteous in my own merit. I am not holy by life choices, I don't feel comfortable calling myself any name associated with Christ. It's all been His work not mine. I don't see that I have any right to make claims of being like Him.
My faith came from Him, my obedience ( what little there is) comes from Him, Justification, restoration, salvation.. All God's work i had almost to do with it.

Relationship with God is not about avoiding sin, it's about where your loyalty lies and yes some sin will fall away during that relationship and over the course of it but when you study God's word you can only come to the conclusion that at our very best we fall very short. That's why we need a Savior.
 
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