Eternal Security!

donadams---you said: "the doctrine of eternal security is opposed by the enemies of our salvation!"

I couldn't agree with you more. The devil opposes the doctrine of eternal security because he doesn't want any Christian to have true peace or ASSURANCE. The more he can keep you worrying and "trying to save yourself" the happier he is. Jesus said "IT IS FINISHED" on the cross. The devil attempts to create a doctrine which is "the cross PLUS our own works" which is unbiblical and heretical. Salvation is something we REST IN. You are making it something we ATTAIN BY OUR OWN EFFORTS.

Yes---we put on the whole armor of God--but we need to remember it is GOD'S ARMOR not ours!! HE has already gotten the victory! "Through God we shall do valiantly for he it is that will tread down our enemies" (Ps. 108:13). Our salvation is a GIFT from God that we should rejoice in!! We should have full assurance of faith--and due to that full assurance we can greatly rejoice!! Your theology is "I'm not sure if I'll be saved. I'll know when we get to Heaven". But the Bible teaches we can KNOW Christ has saved us NOW--He already did all the work--how can I add to what He has done? I cannot.

the doctrine of eternal security is opposed by the enemies of our salvation!
"One of the tragic elements of Roman Catholicism, which embedded itself in Christianity in the Dark Ages, was the denial that anyone can have the assurance of salvation. It is part of Roman Catholic dogma that no one can know if they are going to end up in heaven.
Since salvation is a joint effort, since salvation is a cooperative effort between God and man, salvation ultimately then falls to man. God is not likely to fail, but we are; and since the outcome of our salvation is in our hands, it is seriously in doubt, since we cannot know if we will endure to the end. And we cannot know if we have satisfied the requirements of God and are actually saved, and additionally very unlikely to avoid Purgatory, where even if we’ve made a noble effort we will have to spend thousands and thousands of years paying for sins before we are ever given heaven. This is part of Roman Catholic theology, you cannot know that you’re saved. Consequently, when the Reformation came, this great truth asserted itself and freed people from this horrific life of fear and doubt."
...
" whereas the Christian is absolutely forbidden to doubt what God has done in Jesus Christ or to doubt his universal salvific will, this does not exclude all possible doubt of one’s own eternal salvation.” You can’t doubt the work of Jesus Christ. You can’t doubt the saving will of God.
But you better doubt your own salvation otherwise you’re cursed and damned for sinful presumption.
This is one of the most horrific doctrines in the Roman system, leaving people in this total darkness."
-John MacArthur
 
"One of the tragic elements of Roman Catholicism, which embedded itself in Christianity in the Dark Ages, was the denial that anyone can have the assurance of salvation. It is part of Roman Catholic dogma that no one can know if they are going to end up in heaven.
Since salvation is a joint effort, since salvation is a cooperative effort between God and man, salvation ultimately then falls to man. God is not likely to fail, but we are; and since the outcome of our salvation is in our hands, it is seriously in doubt, since we cannot know if we will endure to the end. And we cannot know if we have satisfied the requirements of God and are actually saved, and additionally very unlikely to avoid Purgatory, where even if we’ve made a noble effort we will have to spend thousands and thousands of years paying for sins before we are ever given heaven. This is part of Roman Catholic theology, you cannot know that you’re saved. Consequently, when the Reformation came, this great truth asserted itself and freed people from this horrific life of fear and doubt."
...
" whereas the Christian is absolutely forbidden to doubt what God has done in Jesus Christ or to doubt his universal salvific will, this does not exclude all possible doubt of one’s own eternal salvation.” You can’t doubt the work of Jesus Christ. You can’t doubt the saving will of God.
But you better doubt your own salvation otherwise you’re cursed and damned for sinful presumption.
This is one of the most horrific doctrines in the Roman system, leaving people in this total darkness."
-John MacArthur


Now that we know what John MacArthur said, how about what you believe?

Do you believe God desires for all men to be saved?
 
Now that we know what John MacArthur said, how about what you believe?

Do you believe God desires for all men to be saved?
As per Scripture:
I believe God desires for all men to be saved.
As per Scripture:
I believe not all men will be saved.
Therefore:
There is something God considers more valuable than His desire for all to be saved.

Is it because God is more committed to our free will, our ultimate self-determination, than he is to saving all?
IOW; Would God rather have people end up in Hel rather than violate a person's "freewill"?
or
Is God more committed to glorifying his own free and sovereign grace than he is to saving all.
IOW; Is God's glory more valuable to God than that desire?
God's glory is demonstrated both by showing mercy to the elect and by His wrath toward the unrepentant.
ex: Romans 9:
What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?
What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory

and we can argue that God has two wills.
Called “will of command” and “will of decree” or “moral will” and “sovereign will.”
ex:
God commands that we shall not murder:
God decreed that His innocent Son was to be murdered

 
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Romans 9:
What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?
What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory

Romans 9 is contextually about election for purpose not election for salvation.

The Children of Israel were called the elect.

They were elected for purpose not salvation.
 
Romans 9 is contextually about election for purpose not election for salvation.

The Children of Israel were called the elect.

They were elected for purpose not salvation.
my point was God's emphasis on His glory as to why His desire for all men to be saved is unfulfilled.
 
Rev 20:
15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15

I believe this would include those whose names were blotted out of the book as well.

He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ Revelation 3:5-6
 
And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15

I believe this would include those whose names were blotted out of the book as well.

He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ Revelation 3:5-6
So do I,
Then why did you ask me to defend my claim :
"As per Scripture:​
I believe not all men will be saved."​
I don't understand why you challenged that statement.
 
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So do I,
Then why did you ask me to defend my claim :
"As per Scripture:​
I believe not all men will be saved."​
I don't understand why you challenged that statement.

I just asked for scripture.

That’s not challenging your statement or your claim.

Those that visit this site and view these threads but may never participate can benefit from what you write.
 
"One of the tragic elements of Roman Catholicism, which embedded itself in Christianity in the Dark Ages, was the denial that anyone can have the assurance of salvation. It is part of Roman Catholic dogma that no one can know if they are going to end up in heaven.
Since salvation is a joint effort, since salvation is a cooperative effort between God and man, salvation ultimately then falls to man. God is not likely to fail, but we are; and since the outcome of our salvation is in our hands, it is seriously in doubt, since we cannot know if we will endure to the end. And we cannot know if we have satisfied the requirements of God and are actually saved, and additionally very unlikely to avoid Purgatory, where even if we’ve made a noble effort we will have to spend thousands and thousands of years paying for sins before we are ever given heaven. This is part of Roman Catholic theology, you cannot know that you’re saved. Consequently, when the Reformation came, this great truth asserted itself and freed people from this horrific life of fear and doubt."
...
" whereas the Christian is absolutely forbidden to doubt what God has done in Jesus Christ or to doubt his universal salvific will, this does not exclude all possible doubt of one’s own eternal salvation.” You can’t doubt the work of Jesus Christ. You can’t doubt the saving will of God.
But you better doubt your own salvation otherwise you’re cursed and damned for sinful presumption.
This is one of the most horrific doctrines in the Roman system, leaving people in this total darkness."
-John MacArthur
Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, “He who endures to the end will be saved” (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell.
...
One can be confident of one’s present salvation. This is one of the chief reasons why God gave us the sacraments—to provide visible assurances that he is invisibly providing us with his grace. And one can be confident that one has not thrown away that grace by simply examining one’s life and seeing whether one has committed mortal sin. Indeed, the tests that John sets forth in his first epistle to help us know whether we are abiding in grace are, in essence, tests of whether we are dwelling in grave sin. For example, “By this it may be seen who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not do right is not of God, nor he who does not love his brother” (1 John 3:10), “If any one says, ‘I love God,’ and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen” (1 John 4:20), “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3).

Likewise, by looking at the course of one’s life in grace and the resolution of one’s heart to keep following God, one can also have an assurance of future salvation. It is this Paul speaks of when he writes to the Philippians and says, “And I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ” (Phil. 1:6). This is not a promise for all Christians, or even necessarily all in the church at Philippi, but it is a confidence that the Philippian Christians in general would make it. The basis of this is their spiritual performance to date, and Paul feels a need to explain to them that there is a basis for his confidence in them. Thus he says, immediately, “It is right for me to feel thus about you all, because I hold you in my heart, for you are all partakers with me of grace, both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel” (1:7).
...
For example, Philippians 2:12 says, “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” This is not the language of self-confident assurance. Our salvation is something that remains to be worked out.
 
Hebrews 10:26–31: f we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. . . . How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, ‘Vengeance is mine, I will repay.’ And again, ‘The Lord will judge his people.’ It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

2 Peter 2: 20-21: For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.”
Ask yourself: Why would Christ warn us about this, if there was no danger that it could happen? See these additional verses for more study: Matt. 7:21-23; Matt. 10:22; John 5:29; Rom. 2:5-11; Rom. 8;24-25; 1 Cor. 9:27; 1 Cor. 10:12; Heb. 6:11; Phil. 2:12-13; 1 John 3:21-24; 1 John 4:20-21
 
Whether there is certainty in the hope of a wayfarer?

Objection 1. It would seem that there is no certainty in the hope of a wayfarer. For hope resides in the will. But certainty pertains not to the will but to the intellect. Therefore there is no certainty in hope.

Objection 2. Further, hope is based on grace and merits, as stated above (Question 17, Article 1). Now it is impossible in this life to know for certain that we are in a state of grace, as stated above (I-II, 112, 5). Therefore there is no certainty in the hope of a wayfarer.
Objection 3. Further, there can be no certainty about that which may fail. Now many a hopeful wayfarer fails to obtain happiness. Therefore a wayfarer’s hope has no certainty.

On the contrary, “Hope is the certain expectation of future happiness,” as the Master states (Sent. iii, D, 26): and this may be gathered from 2 Timothy 1:12, “I know Whom I have believed, and I am certain that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him.”

I answer that, Certainty is found in a thing in two ways, essentially and by participation. It is found essentially in the cognitive power; by participation in whatever is moved infallibly to its end by the cognitive power. In this way we say that nature works with certainty, since it is moved by the Divine intellect which moves everything with certainty to its end. In this way too, the moral virtues are said to work with greater certainty than art, in as much as, like a second nature, they are moved to their acts by the reason: and thus too, hope tends to its end with certainty, as though sharing in the certainty of faith which is in the cognitive faculty. This suffices for the Reply to the First Objection.

Reply to Objection 2. Hope does not trust chiefly in grace already received, but in God’s omnipotence and mercy, whereby even he that has not grace, can obtain it, so as to come to eternal life. Now whoever has faith is certain of God’s omnipotence and mercy.

Reply to Objection 3. That some who have hope fail to obtain happiness, is due to a fault of the free will in placing the obstacle of sin, but not to any deficiency in God’s power or mercy, in which hope places its trust. Hence this does not prejudice the certainty of hope. [2]

Furthermore, the object of this certain hope is nothing less than eternal happiness:

As stated above (Article 1), the hope of which we speak now, attains God by leaning on His help in order to obtain the hoped for good. Now an effect must be proportionate to its cause. Wherefore the good which we ought to hope for from God properly and chiefly is the infinite good, which is proportionate to the power of our divine helper, since it belongs to an infinite power to lead anyone to an infinite good. Such a good is eternal life, which consists in the enjoyment of God Himself. For we should hope from Him for nothing less than Himself, since His goodness, whereby He imparts good things to His creature, is no less than His Essence. Therefore the proper and principal object of hope is eternal happiness. [3]

Thomas Aquinas, the greatest and most representative Catholic theologian of all time, taught that we can enjoy certainty of eternal life.
 
"One of the tragic elements of Roman Catholicism, which embedded itself in Christianity in the Dark Ages, was the denial that anyone can have the assurance of salvation. It is part of Roman Catholic dogma that no one can know if they are going to end up in heaven.
Since salvation is a joint effort, since salvation is a cooperative effort between God and man, salvation ultimately then falls to man. God is not likely to fail, but we are; and since the outcome of our salvation is in our hands, it is seriously in doubt, since we cannot know if we will endure to the end. And we cannot know if we have satisfied the requirements of God and are actually saved, and additionally very unlikely to avoid Purgatory, where even if we’ve made a noble effort we will have to spend thousands and thousands of years paying for sins before we are ever given heaven. This is part of Roman Catholic theology, you cannot know that you’re saved. Consequently, when the Reformation came, this great truth asserted itself and freed people from this horrific life of fear and doubt."
...
" whereas the Christian is absolutely forbidden to doubt what God has done in Jesus Christ or to doubt his universal salvific will, this does not exclude all possible doubt of one’s own eternal salvation.” You can’t doubt the work of Jesus Christ. You can’t doubt the saving will of God.
But you better doubt your own salvation otherwise you’re cursed and damned for sinful presumption.
This is one of the most horrific doctrines in the Roman system, leaving people in this total darkness."
-John MacArthur
 
Now that we know what John MacArthur said, how about what you believe?

Do you believe God desires for all men to be saved?
Ezekiel 33:11
Easy-to-Read Version
11 “You must say to them, ‘The Lord God says: By my life, I swear that I don’t enjoy seeing people die—not even evil people! I don’t want them to die. I want them to come back to me. I want them to change their lives so that they can really live. So come back to me! Stop doing bad things! Why must you die, family of Israel?’
 
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