EV or ICE

[WIP]

EVs are interesting and the tech is cool, but right now it is a lot of green-washing.

I agree. The technology has a lot of potential but it seems that some have tossed all their cards on the table too soon and they are trying to force everyone else to sit in on it. I can't help but believe there is a money driver behind it all. It the technology was as good as they claimed, it would be able to stand on its own without the political push. Battery powered small tools, lawn mowers, golf carts, ice augers are just a few examples of how the technology has managed to progress on its own merit.

 

[Milk-Drops]

I agree. The technology has a lot of potential but it seems that some have tossed all their cards on the table too soon and they are trying to force everyone else to sit in on it. I can't help but believe there is a money driver behind it all. It the technology was as good as they claimed, it would be able to stand on its own without the political push. Battery powered small tools, lawn mowers, golf carts, ice augers are just a few examples of how the technology has managed to progress on its own merit.

Right now the issue is infrastructure for electric cars and that the benefits are currently a wash due to the cost of new ones and Tesla selling their Carbon Credits to other corporations. The .ain't way Tedla is profitable.

 

[Free]

Right now the issue is infrastructure for electric cars and that the benefits are currently a wash due to the cost of new ones and Tesla selling their Carbon Credits to other corporations. The .ain't way Tedla is profitable.

Other issues are the mining of the minerals required for current battery technology, the fact that batteries won’t last the life of the vehicle and are basically unrecyclable (as far as I know), problems with batteries in extreme cold, reliable sources of electricity other than gas, etc.

They are pushing EVs much too hard, too fast. They aren’t nearly as green as people have been lead to believe and the entire automotive industry knows this; it’s largely virtue-signalling at this point. EVs are not the answer, at least not until much better, cleaner battery and energy tech are developed.

People also seem to be largely unaware of the progress with hydrogen fuel cells and efuels.

 

[WIP]

Other issues are the mining of the minerals required for current battery technology, the fact that batteries won’t last the life of the vehicle and are basically unrecyclable (as far as I know), problems with batteries in extreme cold, reliable sources of electricity other than gas, etc.

They are pushing EVs much too hard, too fast. They aren’t nearly as green as people have been lead to believe and the entire automotive industry knows this; it’s largely virtue-signalling at this point. EVs are not the answer, at least not until much better, cleaner battery and energy tech are developed.

People also seem to be largely unaware of the progress with hydrogen fuel cells and efuels.

What are efuels?

 

[jasonc]

https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news...ic-fuel-could-save-the-combustion-engine.html

"There’s another important percentage Porsche touts too: 70, as in the percent of Porsches ever produced that are still on the road. The German company acknowledges that many of today’s cars still run on gasoline. Simply removing them from the global fleet isn’t a tenable option for a variety of reasons. Instead, Porsche and Siemens are working together to craft synthetic fuel dubbed eFuel, and it could dramatically reduce emissions to augment the world’s move towards more sustainable motoring.
...
eFuel is instead a derivative from hydrogen. The process begins with electrolysis, which splits water into hydrogen and oxygen gases. From there, Porsche and Siemens use captured carbon dioxide from the air, in combination with the hydrogen, to form synthesized methanol.

The methanol could then be used in ExxonMobil’s methanol-to-gasoline (MtG) process, at which point it could be blended to current fuel standards."

Methanol is used in e85 and e90 .these eat rubber and reduce fuel economy and engine power .

 

[hawkman]

https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news...ic-fuel-could-save-the-combustion-engine.html

"There’s another important percentage Porsche touts too: 70, as in the percent of Porsches ever produced that are still on the road. The German company acknowledges that many of today’s cars still run on gasoline. Simply removing them from the global fleet isn’t a tenable option for a variety of reasons. Instead, Porsche and Siemens are working together to craft synthetic fuel dubbed eFuel, and it could dramatically reduce emissions to augment the world’s move towards more sustainable motoring.
...
eFuel is instead a derivative from hydrogen. The process begins with electrolysis, which splits water into hydrogen and oxygen gases. From there, Porsche and Siemens use captured carbon dioxide from the air, in combination with the hydrogen, to form synthesized methanol.

The methanol could then be used in ExxonMobil’s methanol-to-gasoline (MtG) process, at which point it could be blended to current fuel standards."

Another petrol alternative, wood Gasifier . Not Porsche but pick-up truck friendly . Handy man project Edward , jasonc .

 

[jaybo]

Is anyone interested in the pros and cons of cooking with gas? Or do you want to start another thread about vehicles?

 

[BeyondET]

Other issues are the mining of the minerals required for current battery technology, the fact that batteries won’t last the life of the vehicle and are basically unrecyclable (as far as I know), problems with batteries in extreme cold, reliable sources of electricity other than gas, etc.

They are pushing EVs much too hard, too fast. They aren’t nearly as green as people have been lead to believe and the entire automotive industry knows this; it’s largely virtue-signalling at this point. EVs are not the answer, at least not until much better, cleaner battery and energy tech are developed.

People also seem to be largely unaware of the progress with hydrogen fuel cells and efuels.

Gas cars have the same issue in cold weather, they can loose up to 20% of range.

Modern batteries will last the life of the vehicle. the average person doesn't even drive 500 thousands miles in a life time.

No EV batteries is going to a landfill, there is to much money in it that can be recycled.

I've read there a few companies will take the batteries and turn them into power banks. EV batteries once it can push a car down the road can still hold electricity thus the power banks

 

[Free]

Gas cars have the same issue in cold weather, they can loose up to 20% of range.

This is the least of the issues in cold weather. If parked in an unheated area in cold enough temperatures, being plugged in basically only keeps the battery warm, if that. In short, an EV may not even start if there wasn’t enough charge in the battery. This has been known to happen.

Modern batteries will last the life of the vehicle. the average person doesn't even drive 500 thousands miles in a life time.

People have already had to replace them due to various issues.

No EV batteries is going to a landfill, there is to much money in it that can be recycled.

I've read there a few companies will take the batteries and turn them into power banks. EV batteries once it can push a car down the road can still hold electricity thus the power banks

If they can do that, then great.

 

[BeyondET]

This is the least of the issues in cold weather. If parked in an unheated area in cold enough temperatures, being plugged in basically only keeps the battery warm, if that. In short, an EV may not even start if there wasn’t enough charge in the battery. This has been known to happen.


People have already had to replace them due to various issues.


If they can do that, then great.

That happens with gas also, the lines can freeze because there is water condensation in the lines not just gas.

There's equally headaches with gas or ev, in cold weather

 

[jasonc]

Part of being stewards is taking care of one another. If people are upset or concerned that they may not have gas for their stoves or cars that's still wrong.. no matter what we do the planet is in a state of decay. God is in control of our planet. We could be accelerating that decay and of course we can do better, but we're still humans. We make mistakes. We sin.

As for using fossil fuels, it's still a free market. Let people choose. A lot of haste towards trying to electrify everybody is out of fear, not love. "We're destroying the planet by burning fossil fuels". That's not even a nice thing to tell a society that relies on fossil fuels that they're causing climate change, when it is a natural occurrence.

The fighting towards one another is what we need to focus on. Forcing your will upon others is not a good thing. This is also a judgment issue. Trying to make it sound as if using gas stoves and gas cars is a bad thing and it makes you a bad person is a bigger issue than the actual supposed crime.

We don't always make the best choices in life. But, if using fossil fuels isn't the best choice... well i will keep using gas stoves and gas vehicles and maybe God will provide some way to keep gas stoves and gas vehicles without needing fossil fuels (like synthetic fuels or hydrogen). Don't know what would be used in place of natural gas but part of keeping one door open, it can lead to new possibilities rather than going with the "safer method".

So I'm not at all worried that my fossil fuel usage is really a problem if someone is coming up with new ideas.

Synthetic gas and oil invented by the third Reich .found to be wanting in that it takes more energy to make synthetic fuel then to simply extract it.

Electric cars as a concept almost predate the gas engine . The early submarine was all electric and battery operated and diesels were simply added to charge the batteries fi drive thru electric motor that moves the screw.

I hate WW1 history .

 

[MayGodHeal]

Synthetic gas and oil invented by the third Reich .found to be wanting in that it takes more energy to make synthetic fuel then to simply extract it.

Electric cars as a concept almost predate the gas engine .

Yeah, it makes one wonder why EVs are being pushed. Most likely due to thinking punishing the oil industry is a good idea.

Yeah that is one of the problems with synthetic fuel. But that's why that needs to be addressed if we are to reduce our oil consumption, which is what some people believe we are running out of oil.

No matter the case rather than being reactive to the gas stove and internal combustion vehicle bans we should be proactive and make both safer and more environmentally friendly. People have an excuse to ban gas vehicles, if stick your car in the garage with the engine running its deadly to life. That's enough reason for them to ban the vehicles.

Gas stoves is a bit more complicated, the issue here is now we have to choose between a polluting gas vehicle and one that has no tailpipe emissions, electric vehicles many people don't want.

We have the option to allow the free market to let people decide and it mostly will continue to favor internal combustions. Hence the reason the left wants to ban the sale of new ones while most likely about to force older gas vehicles off the roads soon after. They just won't disclose it yet. I already know California is just itching to ban all fossil fuel technology period.

So I'm all for alternative fuels that are safe for internal combustion, even if it does take more energy and resources. The point here is to save the internal combustion vehicles so people are not limited with choices. I myself do not want to abandon internal combustion vehicle technology, but its because others will benefit from keeping it alive, at least by several decades.

 

[Edward]

So since when has the government driven the market for anything? So why ar EV's a political issue? Why are they testing the ban gas waters? That don't make sense.

Unless you are the government and mandating EV's would give them control of your vehicle.

It's kind of hard to stop a gas engine, but I bet they just turn those electric ones on and off like a lamp. Think how much fuel they will save by not having to chase bad guys. Turn em off!

 

[jasonc]

Yeah, it makes one wonder why EVs are being pushed. Most likely due to thinking punishing the oil industry is a good idea.

Yeah that is one of the problems with synthetic fuel. But that's why that needs to be addressed if we are to reduce our oil consumption, which is what some people believe we are running out of oil.

No matter the case rather than being reactive to the gas stove and internal combustion vehicle bans we should be proactive and make both safer and more environmentally friendly. People have an excuse to ban gas vehicles, if stick your car in the garage with the engine running its deadly to life. That's enough reason for them to ban the vehicles.

Gas stoves is a bit more complicated, the issue here is now we have to choose between a polluting gas vehicle and one that has no tailpipe emissions, electric vehicles many people don't want.

We have the option to allow the free market to let people decide and it mostly will continue to favor internal combustions. Hence the reason the left wants to ban the sale of new ones while most likely about to force older gas vehicles off the roads soon after. They just won't disclose it yet. I already know California is just itching to ban all fossil fuel technology period.

So I'm all for alternative fuels that are safe for internal combustion, even if it does take more energy and resources. The point here is to save the internal combustion vehicles so people are not limited with choices. I myself do not want to abandon internal combustion vehicle technology, but its because others will benefit from keeping it alive, at least by several decades.

Hmm

I will post the early car era on Florida .

 

[MayGodHeal]

Edward it's all apart of their orchestrated push against fossil fuels. It's all about control. They are not even being patient at all and want to rush internal combustion vehicles right off dealers lots.

I don't know exactly how they are also manipulating EV sales either, probably just constantly telling people not to buy gas vehicles and they blindly listen.

So if you were to buy a gas vehicle in 2030 is it going to be useless in 5 or so years. Yes some states plan on banning gas vehicles by 2035. What's to say they also have a hidden plan to ban all gas vehicles or the fuel? They claim they are not yet they are pushing EVs like they're going to create a massive demand for them. Supposedly 800,000 EVs in 2022 were sold. Which, I only seen a few temporary plates and they're all Tesla.

If you gotta push EVs behind everyone's back and try to make it sound like "2035 is 12 years away" is far enough away then there's some kind of major controlling problem behind all this. And this is upsetting when we have a group of people telling everyone else what to buy.

I know people in the auto industry and manage gas vehicle part stores/companies freaking out they're not going to have a job anymore because it takes a lot more manpower to produce gas vehicles then it does with electric vehicles. These people pushing EVs don't understand if people want electric vehicles then they shouldn't be coerced by being told to stop buying internal combustion vehicles and buy an electric vehicle. This is an artificial move towards EVs and it's going to hurt a lot of people. A lot of people may no longer have jobs because they don't have the means to get to work anymore. That's what this excessive push towards electric vehicles is going to cause. People will not be anywhere close to being capable of switching to EVs in 20 years.

 

[BeyondET]

Not really. While some issues can happen with gas in cold weather, they rarely do.

Freezing lines might not happen often but there's a loss in range with gas cars in colder weather something that can't be fixed with a heater or anything like that, burning fossil fuels isn't as efficient in cold weather.

When gas cars came out in the early 1900's. They wasn't efficient or burned the fuel clean.

Older EV's do have a considerable amount loss of range. EV's each year get better and better like gas cars did.

 

[jasonc]

Freezing lines might not happen often but there's a loss in range with gas cars in colder weather something that can't be fixed with a heater or anything like that, burning fossil fuels isn't as efficient in cold weather.

When gas cars came out in the early 1900's. They wasn't efficient or burned the fuel clean.

Older EV's do have a considerable amount loss of range. EV's each year get better and better like gas cars did.

No.i tracked my truck .nope not all .I have drove it in weather below 20s before .the map and the ecm uses the act to add fuel until the engine warms up .

 

[Free]

Freezing lines might not happen often but there's a loss in range with gas cars in colder weather something that can't be fixed with a heater or anything like that, burning fossil fuels isn't as efficient in cold weather.

Colder air is more dense, which means there is more oxygen per volume coming into an engine. To adjust and keep the mixture within spec, more fuel is used. The irony is, vehicles develop more power in colder weather, but are usually less able to use it. Some loss in range is from extra fuel used due to loss of traction, but that would be the same for EVs. Gas, as far as I know, is and likely always will be much more efficient in the energy it provides than electricity.

Ideally, I would prefer a hybrid, where braking and the engine are used to keep charging the battery as needed.

When gas cars came out in the early 1900's. They wasn't efficient or burned the fuel clean.

Of course, but that clearly has changed. And they still could do better, if it wasn't for the EV push shutting ICE development largely off the table.

Older EV's do have a considerable amount loss of range. EV's each year get better and better like gas cars did.

They do, but they also getting larger and larger battery packs to extend their range, which also makes vehicles significantly heavier. This will likely wear more on the drivetrain and brakes. There is always a tradeoff when going from fossil fuels to "clean" energy. Always.

 

[MayGodHeal]

Free I noticed very little loss of range in my gas vehicle. I get anywhere from 26-30mpg in above freezing temps and it's anywhere from 24-26mpg at or below freezing. It may depend on the vehicle but it greatly depends on how well you maintain it. I also drive mostly highway miles.

 

[miamited]

Hi jasonc

50000 k

Just to be clear, that's 50,000 thousand. That's 50 million miles. Wow!!!! Your parents really liked to drive. I'm surprised they had time to stop and have you. Or were you the one 'born in the back of a Rambler'. LOL

God bless,
Ted