Faith in themselves, not in God

[Heidi]

Those who believe they can lose their salvation are putting their faith in themselves instead of putting their faith in God. This is not only the sin of pride at its peak, but they are up a creek without a paddle because none of us can be perfect enough to save ourselves.

Paul addresses those who do not produce much fruit in 1 Corinthians 3:15, "If it is burned up, he will suffer looss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames."

It's right there in living color. There are people with strong faith and there are people with weak faith which is why there are so many different rooms in heaven. But if we accept Christ as the sacrifice for our sins, then we will be saved. The above passage shows clearly that those of us who produce little fruit will still be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

 

[thessalonian]

No, you have it backwards. We know we have to put our faith and trust in Christ because if we put it in ourselves we are doomed to hell for all eternity. There are those who will not produce much fruit who will be saved. But there are none who will produce no fruit who will be saved. That is the point you have to get to for your agruement to work. As long as we are on this earth we have the choice of following Christ or ourselves. He does not take this choice away from us. Take up your cross and follow him.

Blessings

 

[Blazin Bones]

It may be just me, but isn't this like the fifth thread discussing the issue of eternal salvation. We don't neeed a new thread every time a new point is going to be added to the argument. Please try to remember that.

 

[Heidi]

No, you have it backwards. We know we have to put our faith and trust in Christ because if we put it in ourselves we are doomed to hell for all eternity. There are those who will not produce much fruit who will be saved. But there are none who will produce no fruit who will be saved. That is the point you have to get to for your agruement to work. As long as we are on this earth we have the choice of following Christ or ourselves. He does not take this choice away from us. Take up your cross and follow him.

Blessings

And once the Holy Spirit is in us, how will we not produce any fruit? Unless of course you believe the devil is stronger than the Holy Spirit. So which is it? :o

 

[Merry Menagerie]

You're fighting a losing battle here - I'm so good at keeping myself saved that I don't need God anymore ;) Speak to the hand, sister....speak to the hand!!!

ha haaaaaaaaaa

Gosh I'm in a weird mood today aren't I!

 

[Heidi]

You're fighting a losing battle here - I'm so good at keeping myself saved that I don't need God anymore ;) Speak to the hand, sister....speak to the hand!!!

ha haaaaaaaaaa

Gosh I'm in a weird mood today aren't I!

Of course you know I won't lose the battle because as Paul says; "You however, are not controlled by the sinful nature, but by the Spirit if the Spirit of God is in you." So therefore, I know the Spirit will never leave me.

But those who are not controlled by the Spirit do have to worry about their salvation because they were never saved in the first place! So even though Pharisees, atheists, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, etc. will disagree with me, that of course doesn't meane that I won't win the war because "the one who is in you is greater than the one in the world." :D

 

[thessalonian]

[

 

[thessalonian]

oops

 

[thessalonian]

You're fighting a losing battle here - I'm so good at keeping myself saved that I don't need God anymore ;) Speak to the hand, sister....speak to the hand!!!

ha haaaaaaaaaa

Gosh I'm in a weird mood today aren't I!

I find your words to be inflamitory and slanderous. I've not said anywhere I don't need God any more. In fact quite the opposite. You are a liar. To have my beliefs trashed in such a man puts you in the dispicable category. You think insults and belittling and slander are the way to win people over. I see little that is Christian about you.

 

[Heidi]

But have you not said that God won't give you the ability to do good works, Thessalonian? If not, then why worry about whether or not you'll do good works if the Spirit of God lives in you? I don't because I know that "the one who is in me is greater than the one in the world." I also know that "he who began a good work in me will carry it on to completion." Therefore, those of us in Christ Jesus can live in complete confidence of our salvation. End of story. :D

 

[Merry Menagerie]

wow!!!

I make a passing comment.... a joke...based on the OP (I only read the first post) and this is what I get!

I missed the commandment that says 'Thou shalt not joke' I suppose!

Good grief! There goes my good mood pppfffffffttt :roll:

 

[thessalonian]

No, you have it backwards. We know we have to put our faith and trust in Christ because if we put it in ourselves we are doomed to hell for all eternity. There are those who will not produce much fruit who will be saved. But there are none who will produce no fruit who will be saved. That is the point you have to get to for your agruement to work. As long as we are on this earth we have the choice of following Christ or ourselves. He does not take this choice away from us. Take up your cross and follow him.

Blessings

And once the Holy Spirit is in us, how will we not produce any fruit? Unless of course you believe the devil is stronger than the Holy Spirit. So which is it? :o

So how is it that the Holy Spirit is not greater than our sin such that we still sin. No, I don't think that the Holy Spirit is weaker than the devil. I do believe the Holy Spirit will not violate our will and if our will leads us to sin he will not stop us. Romans 8:38 never mentions sin as something that cannot separate us from the love of God. It is not the devil who is responible when we sin. He cannot tempt us beyond the strength God gives us to resist. He will always give us a way out. So if we sin we know we resist the Holy Spirit. It is not that the Holy Spirit is not stronger than our wills. He simply does not force our wills and gives us freedom. That is the part you are missing. We can in fact resist the Holy Spirit which eventually can lead to a fall from grace. Vice counters virtue. One who is doing good is not sinning. In fact if he is practicing virtue he is gaining strength by the grace of God against sin. One who is sinning is weakening his virtue and his resistance toward sin.

Blessings

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Thess.....I have not read the whole thread. In fact I had only read the first post when I made that post of mine. You have been sorely mistaken my friend!!

I think and apology is in order for calling me a slanderous liar!

 

[thessalonian]

Thess.....I have not read the whole thread. In fact I had only read the first post when I made that post of mine. You have been sorely mistaken my friend!!

I think and apology is in order for calling me a slanderous liar!

I owe you nothing. If you going to jump in to the middle of a conversation you better know what your saying. It's not as if this thread is 15 pages deep.

 

[Heidi]

No, you have it backwards. We know we have to put our faith and trust in Christ because if we put it in ourselves we are doomed to hell for all eternity. There are those who will not produce much fruit who will be saved. But there are none who will produce no fruit who will be saved. That is the point you have to get to for your agruement to work. As long as we are on this earth we have the choice of following Christ or ourselves. He does not take this choice away from us. Take up your cross and follow him.

Blessings

And once the Holy Spirit is in us, how will we not produce any fruit? Unless of course you believe the devil is stronger than the Holy Spirit. So which is it? :o

So how is it that the Holy Spirit is not greater than our sin such that we still sin. No, I don't think that the Holy Spirit is weaker than the devil. I do believe the Holy Spirit will not violate our will and if our will leads us to sin he will not stop us. Romans 8:38 never mentions sin as something that cannot separate us from the love of God. It is not the devil who is responible when we sin. He cannot tempt us beyond the strength God gives us to resist. He will always give us a way out. So if we sin we know we resist the Holy Spirit. It is not that the Holy Spirit is not stronger than our wills. He simply does not force our wills and gives us freedom. That is the part you are missing. We can in fact resist the Holy Spirit which eventually can lead to a fall from grace. Vice counters virtue. One who is doing good is not sinning. In fact if he is practicing virtue he is gaining strength by the grace of God against sin. One who is sinning is weakening his virtue and his resistance toward sin.

Blessings

So are you saying that the Holy spirit is not stronger than the devil? Yes or no. Once you answer that qeustion, you will have also answered the questions you posed to me.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Wow!!!

This speaks volumes

 

[thessalonian]

So are you saying that the Holy spirit is not stronger than the devil? Yes or no. Once you answer that qeustion, you will have also answered the questions you posed to me.

Apparently you didn't bother to read my post. I said "No, I don't think that the Holy Spirit is weaker than the devil. ". How many ways do I have to say no. Now you have not answered my question. Do you still sin? If the Holy Spirit is stronger than sin and God always gives you a way out when you sin, how is it that you sin? You have given no explanation. Do you sin?

 

[Heidi]

Thessalonian,

You are also saying that the human will is stronger than God's which of course, is blasphemy and the sin of pride, I might add. And since you do not undertsand the power of the Holy Spirit, then I can see why you are worried about your salvation!! Until you receive the Holy Spirit, you will not understand that once God heals you of blindness you will always be able to see. "We become a new creation. The old is gone and the new has come."

It appears that you have a lot of bible study to do so that you not only understand that God's power is much stronger than either the human will or the devil, but that you won't contradict scripture too.

 

[thessalonian]

Wow!!!

This speaks volumes

Ridicule, distortion, and the belittling of others speaks volumes and that is all I see out of you lately. That is what you call a joke. I know of noone on this board, protestant or Catholic, who says you don't need Jesus. We have different understandings of what that means. So even IF it is true that the comment was not directly at me, it still fits the category of biggotry, ridicule, belittling, and a slanderous lie.

 

[Heidi]

So are you saying that the Holy spirit is not stronger than the devil? Yes or no. Once you answer that qeustion, you will have also answered the questions you posed to me.

Apparently you didn't bother to read my post. I said "No, I don't think that the Holy Spirit is weaker than the devil. ". How many ways do I have to say no. Now you have not answered my question. Do you still sin? If the Holy Spirit is stronger than sin and God always gives you a way out when you sin, how is it that you sin? You have given no explanation. Do you sin?

But you contradicted yourself in your post. None of us is above God or the devil. We are ruled by one or the other. God tries to bring us to him, and the devil tries to keep us from God. So saying that the devil is not more powerful than the HS but that humans are, is saying that the devil is more powerful than the HS because who do you think keeps us from God? :o